Malaysia airlines plane may have crashed 239 people on board #15

[PoirotryInMotion]

From the last thread, forgot to comment on:

There is only one known FACT- the plane with all aboard is missing.

EVERYTHING else is speculation period.

But if you think the US is deploying all the resources it is in the location it is based on what Malaysian authorities are saying you're naïve- We have intel- trust me and likely much of it has come from Boeing & RR.

I'm inclined to agree. If Boeing and/or Rolls Royce have the ability to collect data on their planes and parts I think they would be doing it. It wouldn't matter if MA didn't subscribe to some optional service. When an accident occurs, the manufacturers want to cover their butts. They can do that by collecting data on the equipment. But they probably don't want to draw attention to that.

They have the ability and they do collect data continually. Boeing or Rolls Royce will deny it if it suits security purposes.

From an article by New Scientist dated March 11, 2014:

... The missing Malaysia Airlines jet sent at least two bursts of technical data back to the airline before it disappeared, New Scientist has learned. The data may help investigators understand what went wrong with the aircraft, no trace of which has yet been found.

To aid maintenance, most airlines use the Aircraft Communications Addressing and Reporting System (ACARS), which automatically collates and files four technical reports during every flight so that engineers can spot problems. These reports are sent via VHF radio or satellite at take-off, during the climb, at some point while cruising, and on landing.

Malaysia Airlines has not revealed if it has learned anything from ACARS data, or if it has any. Its eleventh media statement since the plane disappeared said: "All Malaysia Airlines aircraft are equipped with… ACARS which transmits data automatically. Nevertheless, there were no distress calls and no information was relayed."

This would suggest no concrete data is to hand. But New Scientist understands that the maker of the missing Boeing 777's Trent 800 engines, Rolls Royce, received two data reports from flight MH370 at its global engine health monitoring centre in Derby, UK, where it keeps real-time tabs on its engines in use. One was broadcast as MH370 took off from Kuala Lumpur International Airport, the other during the 777's climb out towards Beijing.

As the engine data is filtered from a larger ACARS report covering all the plane's critical flight systems and avionics, it could mean the airline has some useful clues about the condition of the aircraft prior to its disappearance. The plane does not appear to have been cruising long enough to issue any more ACARS reports. It disappeared from radar at 1.30 AM local time, halfway between Malaysia and Vietnam over the Gulf of Thailand.

Under International Civil Aviation Organisation rules, such reports are normally kept secret until air investigators need them. ...

http://www.newscientist.com/article...ngine-data-before-vanishing.html#.Uy8uHV5if9r

Re: the cargo...it may be that Malaysia can't reveal cargo manifest due to certain privacy laws (eg the Int'l Civil Aviation Organisation rules, or additional ones). The 20 Freescale passengers were on a business trip and undoubtedly had some equipment on the plane as part of that (prototypes, etc.). Boeing (and other companies manufacturing defense and spy equipment) probably also have some interests in keeping things secret.


A few interesting rabbit-trail reads along those lines:

"Within its bowels, The Boeing Co. holds volumes of proprietary information deemed so valuable that the company has entire teams dedicated to making sure that private information stays private."
http://www.seattlepi.com/business/ar...rs-1255840.php

Boeing develops self-destructing phone for spies, diplomats.
http://www.news.com.au/technology/ga...-1226840180061

Ex-Boeing engineer gets 15 years in spy case.
http://www.reuters.com/article/2010/...6174XF20100208

 

[popsicle]

CCTVNEWS ‏@cctvnews 10m https://twitter.com/cctvnews

#MH370 Chinese Family Committee condemns Malaysian gov't and Malaysian Airlines for making unsupported conclusion. pic.twitter.com/SYz788gkqX

 

[time]

And one more thing:

We see re: the last point of military radar contact, that it makes sense if the plane then took a Northern route. Because it is around the border b/w Malaysia and Thailand. So therefore, it would be the LAST time military radar caught it before it left Malaysian military radar coverage.

But if it went South arc, there is still much of Malaysia left down South of that last military contact waypoint. Almost all of Malaysia is down South of that point. So wouldn't military radar have caught ANOTHER point of contact if 370 went all the way down South and then over Indonesia?

Unless it went West, and THEN turned south-ish direction? But then would they have had enough fuel to make it all the way to the 8:11 satellite ping? I donn't think it would have had enough fuel.

This is getting stranger and stranger, not any more clear now than it was before this "definitive" statement.

JMO.

Good points... yes, I find it is getting stranger rather than more clear. I don't see how it got on that Southern arc. At the least, I hope they have some kind of data from Indonesian authorities to help corroborate a southern route and how it got on that route because it would have taken a complete turn around if the other data is correct - and no one seems to be doubting that waypoint data are they?

 

[HMSHood]

How British satellite company Inmarsat tracked down MH370
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/technolo...lite-company-Inmarsat-tracked-down-MH370.html

The Malaysian government has concluded that, based on satellite data analysis from British company Inmarsat, Malaysian Airlines flight MH370 ended in the Indian Ocean, and no one on board survived.

In a press statement this afternoon, Prime Minister Najib Razak said that, using a type of analysis "never before used in an investigation of this sort", Inmarsat engineers have been able to establish that the plane's last position was in the middle of the Indian Ocean, west of Perth.

"This is a remote location, far from any possible landing sites. It is therefore with deep sadness and regret that I must inform you that, according to this new data, flight MH370 ended in the southern Indian Ocean."

I wonder if Malaysia had the data from them.


Satellite Company Says It Predicted Missing Plane's Location 10 Days Ago
http://abcnews.go.com/International...ion-missing-malaysia-jet-10/story?id=22992927

A British satellite company said today that it had indications that the missing Malaysia Airlines plane may have crashed into the Indian Ocean as early as two days after the plane's disappearance.

The search for the jetliner did not move into the Indian Ocean until more than a week after the plane vanished in the middle of the night from Malaysian airspace on March 7.

 

[cluciano63]

Hoping they eventually find the data recorder...but I absolutely believe the plane is in the ocean and that we will see some debris soon. No way so many countries are involved in some cover-up just to bring an end to this. JMO

 

[Tssiemer]

why don't they triangulate the pings on the two minute phone call to see where the phone call was made??



They know where the sim card was purchased.......interview the seller of the phone card and check surveillance cameras



:drumroll:

What call?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[kalekona]

From the last thread, forgot to comment on:





They have the ability and they do collect data continually. Boeing or Rolls Royce will deny it if it suits security purposes.

From an article by New Scientist dated March 11, 2014:




Re: the cargo...it may be that Malaysia can't reveal cargo manifest due to certain privacy laws (eg the Int'l Civil Aviation Organisation rules OR additional ones). The 20 Freescale passengers were on a business trip and undoubtedly had some equipment on the plane as part of that (prototypes, etc.). Boeing (and other companies manufacturing defense and spy equipment) probably also have some interests in keeping things secret.


A few interesting rabbit-trail reads along those lines:

"Within its bowels, The Boeing Co. holds volumes of proprietary information deemed so valuable that the company has entire teams dedicated to making sure that private information stays private."
http://www.seattlepi.com/business/ar...rs-1255840.php

Boeing develops self-destructing phone for spies, diplomats.
http://www.news.com.au/technology/ga...-1226840180061

Ex-Boeing engineer gets 15 years in spy case.
http://www.reuters.com/article/2010/...6174XF20100208

I'm very sure Boeing has data and that is one reason for the location of the search area- But do not conclude Boeing is withholding information they are prohibited by law from making any information public

 

[PoirotryInMotion]

And on a side note (playing off popsicle's tweet post)...

Jon Williams ‏@WilliamsJon 28m

Guess who's not coming to dinner? #G7 meet in The Hague on #Ukraine. No #Russia, no #G8 (@AFP photo) pic.twitter.com/79IveqwZpS

 

[aa9511]

If one looks at the military radar contact points of 370, it sure does look like it was headed in a north-west direction. I think the best maps to show the points are on Keith Ledgerwood's blog (you can just google Keith Ledgerwood to find his blog).

So if it then turned around and started going in the South direction, it almost seems like whoever was piloting the plane at that point wanted to make it seem like they were headed north-west. Maybe to deliberately throw off investigators?

But if they knew the plane would be picked up by military radar, weren't they afraid fighter jets would come and investigate them, or they might even be shot down?

JMO.

 

[BetteDavisEyes]

What call?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

The person who called the pilot on his cell phone shortly before departure, I think.

 

[PoirotryInMotion]

I'm very sure Boeing has data and that is one reason for the location of the search area- But do not conclude Boeing is withholding information they are prohibited by law from making any information public

That's what the article said--what I meant. If Boeing is withholding info, it's due to privacy laws associated with some of the manufacture. They still by law have to make sensitive info available to investigators, though.

 

[Tssiemer]

The person who called the pilot on his cell phone shortly before departure, I think.

Oh. I thought it had to do with that call originating from the US that had spoofed the number from a passenger on the flight.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[aa9511]

why don't they triangulate the pings on the two minute phone call to see where the phone call was made??

They know where the sim card was purchased.......interview the seller of the phone card and check surveillance cameras

:drumroll:

bbm

Yeah, really. Ain't that the truth.

 

[JerseyGirl]

The focus of the search turned last week to the Indian Ocean based on an analysis of “pings” received by one of Inmarsat’s satellites from an automatic system onboard the aircraft.

That data established the aircraft had veered west from its original flight path, passed over the Malaysia peninsula and then flown along one of two arcs – a northern corridor that stretches to Kazakhstan and a southern corridor that runs into the Indian Ocean past Australia.

... over the weekend, Inmarsat’s engineers fine-tuned the data drawing on a new type of analysis which had never been used for this purpose before, to establish the flight went south rather than north.

The team used the “Doppler effect” of the satellite as it moved in its orbit to establish a set of measurements for the predicted northerly and southerly paths , a company spokesman said. The Doppler effect describes the change in the frequency of sound, radio or light waves as they travel between two objects, when one or both of them are moving.

The team then overlaid these measurement with data from other aircraft that had flown both “arcs” and the results corresponded with the southerly route. Inmarsat had the results peer-reviewed before passing them on to the Malaysian authorities.

http://www.ft.com/intl/cms/s/0/abe73078-b35d-11e3-b09d-00144feabdc0.html#axzz2wtDVagnu

bbm

 

[SeriouslySearching]

If one looks at the military radar contact points of 370, it sure does look like it was headed in a north-west direction. I think the best maps to show the points are on Keith Ledgerwood's blog (you can just google Keith Ledgerwood to find his blog).

So if it then turned around and started going in the South direction, it almost seems like whoever was piloting the plane at that point wanted to make it seem like they were headed north-west. Maybe to deliberately throw off investigators?

But if they knew the plane would be picked up by military radar, weren't they afraid fighter jets would come and investigate them, or they might even be shot down?

JMO.

I think the waypoints were programmed in the way they were (the zig zag pattern) because of the hope one of the pilots could recover the plane if there was a catastrophic event earlier before the heading took it out over the open sea. I honestly believe the plane was on autopilot from the turn.

 

[Waddles]

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/mar/24/mh370-chinese-plane-spots-white-objects-live-updates

latest update, statement from families

 

[newone]

What call?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

you will find in the following links the desire to find out more about a two minute phone received by the pilot and how authorities are looking more closely at his personal life

originally posted by Momoffourboys upthread

American intelligence agents are said to be steering Malaysian officials towards examining the backgrounds of Captain Shah, 53, and his co-pilot Fariq Abdul Hamid, 27.

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/world-n...#ixzz2wu8NTKdk
Follow us: @DailyMirror on Twitter | DailyMirror on Facebook

Captain Zaharie Ahmad Shah with his wife Faizah Khan and two of their three children.
The estranged wife of pilot Zaharie Ahmed Shah will be interrogated as investigators' suspicions mount that he may have hijacked flight MH370.

http://www.ibtimes.co.uk/malaysia-ai...gation-1441602

 

[kalekona]

That's what the article said--what I meant. If Boeing is withholding info, it's due to privacy laws associated with some of the manufacture. They still by law have to make sensitive info available to investigators, though.

Absolutely right- they are keeping those who need to know informed- I'm sure that is why the US focused so much on that southern search area.

As soon as I saw the US moving high value assists to the south to search I was sure they had some solid information, I still believe that. And while I am hoping they find actual debris I am more than aware that they may not but not finding anything in this case does not mean the plane is still out there.

 

[SeriouslySearching]

Could we see debris wash up years from now or will the ocean's garbage disposal collect it before it can happen?

 

[aa9511]

I think the waypoints were programmed in the way they were (the zig zag pattern) because of the hope one of the pilots could recover the plane if there was a catastrophic event earlier before the heading took it out over the open sea. I honestly believe the plane was on autopilot from the turn.

But would auto-pilot move like that from one pre-set to another (if they were even pre-set at all)?

If someone had set it on autopilot South towards the Indian Ocean right at the turn, why woudn't it just go on that route?