Malaysia airlines plane may have crashed 239 people on board #15

[PoirotryInMotion]

Finding Philip Wood ‏@FindPhilipWood 2h

7pm EST 2NITE @AC360 James Wood @woodjam72 Philip Wood's brother LIVE w/Anderson Cooper. 1st statement from The Wood Family. #FindPhilipWood

 

[Waddles]

the sun rises in an hour and a half in the Perth region. Does anyone know when they start searching?

 

[Woe.be.gone]

Or maybe the woman is running from an abusive husband, so using a fake identity.
Or maybe somebody had just gotten a new phone and called a wrong number. :facepalm:
The conclusions people are jumping to because of this phone call are pretty out there. :seeya:

Remembering that those "deleted files" on his simulator also raised "serious suspicions" among investigators.
Guess what? The files were nothing suspicious once they were analyzed.
I suspect the phone call will be the same way. :twocents:

Yesterday I asked for a link (from another poster iirc) indicating the simulator info has been cleared so-to-speak.
I'm unable to find a statement/proof in print.
Will you provide a link substantiating this claim please?

 

[SilkySifaka]

We're on the same wavelength, time. (I think!)

I cannot wrap my head around -- if there really were a terrorist on the plane -- why s/he would down it in that location. It seems ... please forgive me for this ... "anticlimactic" for a terrorist. I'm not an expert by any means, but I would think the plane would have been flown into a building or downed in a public area -- a spectacle. Even if not someone with official ties to a terrorist group, but unhappy with his/her government -- IMO, the person would want there to be no doubt about what they did and why.

My opinion only.

One reason i lean to more mechanical than pilot or hijacking. They accomplish nothing with a missing plane, no statement against the government, no claims of responsibility, no terror, nothing but confusion that doesn't frighten people at all in any direct way.

 

[Hatfield]

What if ..... (God forbid) there was an exercise taking place and the plane accidentally targeted? ((awful))

This sort of thing has happened before. Here is an example of a full load of people (over 200 people) shot down not too long ago because Russia "thought" they were spies.

http://articles.latimes.com/1998/jan/23/news/mn-11338

 

[Isabelle]

CNN discussing "why didn't they wait" until they had some debris that proves to be wreckage.

 

[Prosecution_Rests]

IMO, it is not like the Malaysian government came out with this claim on their own today...seems to backed up by US etc...if not words, by actions. It is not fair, IMO, to blame the Malaysian's on the contents of today's announcement.

America can afford to say whatever they wish because this did not happen on America's watch but Malaysia is in a delicate spot.

Today's statement is shameful in light of having no evidence to back it up. What if the pieces seen are not of the plane?

The statement read to me like a government telling its citizens to get over it--evidence or not. Are they saying that an American speech writer wrote such a callous statement? Doubt it.

 

[SilkySifaka]

I have no doubt that the new data is correct. Inmarsat would not have sent it on after peer review from boeing and AAIB unless they agreed with the findings. Malaysia's PM would never ever have come out with the statement today unless they were certain. They have had trouble (big trouble) with transparency and letting go of information but they aren't animals. The malaysian people are caring and kind. They bumbled the beginning of this but if we look back i don't think they had the needed data from everyone until well into the last 18 days. The time would have been wasted no matter which government until other countries data was sent in. Australia didn't start searching their sats until the southern arc was finally found due to the handshakes. That came from a private marine sat company, not govt or military radar or sats.

In the last 10 days or so i have found the malasians to be much more open even though there are no definitive answers to many questions, it seems they are letting large parts of the investigation be done by others with expertise, for example AU is the lead investigator for the southern Indian ocean.

They know all souls on board are lost, they know it happened in the southern area west of Perth and now they are looking for the debris that has been spotted. They didn't need to make todays announcement, it just causes more problems for them without concrete debris. Lawsuits will start sooner, they will be dealing with far more upset families now they have taken away hope, for all sorts of selfish reasons they would not make the announcement until they were certain.

Just rambling thoughts

 

[Mrs G Norris]

Seems to me the Malaysians are damned if they do, damned if they don't. If they say what they know they are saying it in the wrong way or before things are confirmed which is not fair to the family, if they wait until they have solid information then they covered up what they did know or delayed informing the relatives sooner.

Prayers for the Malaysians, they are dealing with a horrible tragedy. I am glad it looks like the relatives will finally get some answers here.

 

[TTF14]

Personally, I think the explanation for this tragedy is simple, and far less nefarious. Some manner of fire on board prompted the pilots to go up to 45,000 feet in an effort to suffocate the fire via lack of oxygen. They also turned sharply in an effort to get to a close runway to make an emergency landing.

Their efforts failed, they were overcome, and the plane kept on flying until it exhausted its fuel tanks and crashed into the ocean.

Prayers for all of the families involved - this is horrendous.

If someone could come up with a logical explanation of why all of the transponders were turned off, etc., and no mayday call made, I would totally agree with this.

Whatever happened in the beginning, I do believe in the end the plane crashed when it ran out of gas and by that time the pilots (and hopefully everyone else ) were deceased.

 

[Bonnie2487]

Yesterday I asked for a link (from another poster iirc) indicating the simulator info has been cleared so-to-speak.
I'm unable to find a statement/proof in print.
Will you provide a link substantiating this claim please?

http://www.smh.com.au/world/malaysi...n-pilots-flight-simulator-20140322-35a7d.html

 

[JustAMunch]

the sun rises in an hour and a half in the Perth region. Does anyone know when they start searching?

News update 10 mins ago:

HMAS Success is in the vicinity, about 2500km southwest of Perth, and hopes to be at the site within hours to recover the objects.

http://www.news.com.au/travel/trave...-in-indian-ocean/story-fnizu68q-1226863821771

 

[Deleted member 113679]

Personally, I think the explanation for this tragedy is simple, and far less nefarious. Some manner of fire on board prompted the pilots to go up to 45,000 feet in an effort to suffocate the fire via lack of oxygen. They also turned sharply in an effort to get to a close runway to make an emergency landing.

Their efforts failed, they were overcome, and the plane kept on flying until it exhausted its fuel tanks and crashed into the ocean.

Prayers for all of the families involved - this is horrendous.

Yes, that has been my thoughts for some time.

I don't think any terrorism theory stands up to the fact there is no motive and nobody claiming responsibility or making demands. Unless it went wrong or part 2 is yet to unfold.

Other human factors such as pilot error don't stack up, the plane was in a safe zone and it doesn't explain the loss of comms and the detour. A lone nutter with no known agenda is possible but I think is very unlikely as well.

So that really leaves mechanical / electrical factors and I think it was like you suggest, firstly main communications disabled through the failure, followed by pilots ability to fly being impaired due to either human incapacity or inability to control the plane (even though it probably did continue to fly for a long time afterwards with or without able pilots).

 

[SilkySifaka]

they have very ''outdated'' notions of sedition in some parts of the world - even peaceful protest is dangerous

http://www.freemalaysiatoday.com/category/opinion/2013/05/29/liberty-sedition-and-jailed-dissidents/


http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/06/11/us-usa-security-asia-idUSBRE95A0M920130611

You don't disappear 239 people and a 777 to frame a pilot who is nothing more than a run of the mill member of the opposition leader. Make an example of them yes, do a who dun it? no.

That is the problem with most of the other person theories. The reasons make no sense. Kill them, torture them, leave their bodies to have their eyes pecked out in a public square but a who dun it? Terrorists want to create terror and we have no terror here. They also like to look big to the other groups in the world. Total silence instead.

They only thing i can subscribe to is the idea that it all failed. But even then i would expect a claim of responsibility

 

[Waddles]

One reason i lean to more mechanical than pilot or hijacking. They accomplish nothing with a missing plane, no statement against the government, no claims of responsibility, no terror, nothing but confusion that doesn't frighten people at all in any direct way.

I agree, unless something was attempted, and failed

 

[LinasK]

I now think pilot suicide and both were in on it. The left turn was deliberately programmed, and the "Good Night" was ominous. And you have the transponders turned off. This was deliberate. Unfortunately, it's happened before..

 

[Waddles]

News update 10 mins ago:

HMAS Success is in the vicinity, about 2500km southwest of Perth, and hopes to be at the site within hours to recover the objects.

http://www.news.com.au/travel/trave...-in-indian-ocean/story-fnizu68q-1226863821771

thanks JustAMunch

 

[SilkySifaka]

I'm answering this without reading all the other responses knowing I may be embarrassed by a much better response in a few more pages from where I read, lol!

If I understand it correctly, we have two different 'knowns' going on with the pings. There is the time 'known', through which the arcs were figured. That gives a distance from the satellite that is equidistant, yes.

But, if there is a doppler effect, there are also wavelengths (of sound in the cases I've been reading about). But wavelengths aren't time, so I take it it's fair to say that's the second 'known': the wavelengths.

The satellite really was either north or south of the plane, so the constraint of the "distance only" data was just a data problem. If they had a way to measure the appropriate wavelengths to see a doppler effect, that could tell direction.

Presumably all the data crunching was comparing known entities (other planes, maybe quick studies, etc) to see if the doppler effect they were able to pick up was significant enough to actually mean something. And I guess it did!

A few analysts' blogs I've been reading have been hypothesizing a 'subtle doppler effect' for a while now, so I trust that it's possible (and I trust Inmersat that way anyway, them being good ole careful Brits ).

Thanks isn't enough, this is the simplest explanation and fits why they are certain it went south. You put it in bites that my mind could understand especially how comparing to other flights helped

 

[Prosecution_Rests]

We will know something soon because I doubt if Boeing will allow their company to be left holding the bag (mechanical failure) if they can prove otherwise.

They will have to produce the plane and the applicable parts if they wish to dismiss the intentional (pilot/hijacking) theory.

 

[Woe.be.gone]

IMO, it is not like the Malaysian government came out with this claim on their own today...seems to backed up by US etc...if not words, by actions. It is not fair, IMO, to blame the Malaysian's on the contents of today's announcement.

Let's hope the announcement is backed by tangible proof soon though.
Considering the families have been waiting for over two weeks for proof their loved ones are gone, the announcement registered like 'tell us something we didn't already know' without offering any proof that the worst case scenario is true.
The people probably had their hopes up that they were finally going to hear facts pertaining to what happened to their loved ones.