Malaysia airlines plane may have crashed 239 people on board #2

[Boodles]

Why do I have the feeling that this plane didn't crash? This could be a hijack with an abrupt dive into "below radar" airspace. Isn't that completely possible? But if so, the question is: where did it go? It would need a long runway...

I don't know, it just seems odd that there is zero trace.

 

[Woe.be.gone]

Took me forever to finish reading thread number one.
On his way out the door, my husband told me something about his flying experience in Asia.
Keep in mind this was roughly twenty years ago and he flew a small airplane called a C-12.

He frequently flew out of Bangkok - Hanoi - Ho Chi Minh City.
Back then Vietnam didn't have radar. He's aware they have radar today but questioned outloud how sophisticated their system is.
In other words, can it give enough information if something happened 35,000 ft. above the sea.

During these flights, he was required to fly eighty miles out from land over the sea when flying between Hanoi and Ho Chi Min.
He used the term 'unnerving' to describe these trips because he was flying for around 300 miles (about 1 hr. 20 mins) "not under positive radar control".
No one knew where the plane was during those 300 miles so, if the plane went down, there'd be no record of it.

He said they flew at about 8,000 ft. above the South China Sea (versus 35,000 ft. for the 777) which equates to under two miles up in the sky.

For those of us who have no concept of piloting an airplane I found his story interesting (also happy I didn't know the specific dangers back then!).

The reason I posted this is because of the discrepancies between times the plane went off radar or considered to have gone missing.
One time reported is about 40 mins. into the flight (2 mins prior to when the contact with Vietnam was supposed to happen) versus about two hours into the flight.
Husband said, the pilot would initiate contact with the tower and if no person responded, there would still be an electronic footprint regardless.*

*Based on my limited notes and fast talking husband.:crazy: (impatient too. :shush

 

[Intermezzo]

Why do I have the feeling that this plane didn't crash? This could be a hijack with an abrupt dive into "below radar" airspace. Isn't that completely possible? But if so, the question is: where did it go? It would need a long runway...

I don't know, it just seems odd that there is zero trace.

I had that thought as well...I guess because there is no debris, no distress call, no attempts to contact ground control...nothing..

 

[Intermezzo]

http://www.ottawacitizen.com/news/w...re+finding+trace+take+days/9601059/story.html

"I'm absolutely confident that we will find this airplane," Capt. John M. Cox, who spent 25 years flying for US Airways and is now CEO of Safety Operating Systems, said Monday. The modern pace of communications, where GPS features in our cars and smartphones tell us our location at any given moment, has set unreal expectations. "This is not the first time we have had to wait a few days to find the wreckage."

Based on what he's heard, Cox believes it's increasingly clear that the plane somehow veered from its normal flight path. He said that after the plane disappeared from radar, it must have been "intact and flew for some period of time. Beyond that, it's all speculation." If it had exploded midair along its normal flight path, "we would have found it by now."

 

[Woe.be.gone]

Notice how the 1 hour, 20 minutes my husband said it took him to fly matches the two times we are aware of in this case; from 40 minutes to 2 hours, the two times in question, equals 1 hour and 20 minutes. Weird.
That's the same amount of time my husband said he used to fly without radar protection.

 

[Woe.be.gone]

Took me forever to finish reading thread number one.
On his way out the door, my husband told me something about his flying experience in Asia.
Keep in mind this was roughly twenty years ago and he flew a small airplane called a C-12.

He frequently flew out of Bangkok - Hanoi - Ho Chi Minh City.
Back then Vietnam didn't have radar. He's aware they have radar today but questioned outloud how sophisticated their system is.
In other words, can it give enough information if something happened 35,000 ft. above the sea.

During these flights, he was required to fly eighty miles out from land over the sea when flying between Hanoi and Ho Chi Min.
He used the term 'unnerving' to describe these trips because he was flying for around 300 miles (about 1 hr. 20 mins) "not under positive radar control".
No one knew where the plane was during those 300 miles so, if the plane went down, there'd be no record of it.

He said they flew at about 8,000 ft. above the South China Sea (versus 35,000 ft. for the 777) which equates to under two miles up in the sky.

For those of us who have no concept of piloting an airplane I found his story interesting (also happy I didn't know the specific dangers back then!).

The reason I posted this is because of the discrepancies between times the plane went off radar or considered to have gone missing.
One time reported is about 40 mins. into the flight (2 mins prior to when the contact with Vietnam was supposed to happen) versus about two hours into the flight.
Husband said, the pilot would initiate contact with the tower and if no person responded, there would still be an electronic footprint regardless.*

*Based on my limited notes and fast talking husband.:crazy: (impatient too. :shush

Notice how the 1 hour, 20 minutes my husband said it took him to fly matches the two times we are aware of in this case; from 40 minutes to 2 hours, the two times in question, equals 1 hour and 20 minutes. Weird.
That's the same amount of time my husband said he used to fly without radar protection.

Quoting my two posts so they'll be together. The exact math hadn't dawned on me prior to posting.

 

[Intermezzo]

Has anyone else heard this reported..

http://www.ctvnews.ca/world/missing...ents-questioned-on-stolen-passports-1.1722620

Hishammuddin said biometric information and CCTV footage of the men has been shared with Chinese and U.S. intelligence agencies, who were helping the investigation.

Malaysia's police chief was quoted by local media as saying that one of the two men had been identified -- something that could speed up the investigation.

Civil aviation chief Azharuddin Abdul Rahman declined to confirm this, but said they were of "non-Asian" appearance, adding that authorities were looking at the possibility the men were connected to a stolen passport syndicate.

 

[lonetraveler]

March 11/14
http://www.smh.com.au/world/missing...st-disappear-its-not-hard-20140311-hvh7a.html
bbm.
""The world is a big place," said Michael Smart, professor of aerospace engineering at the University of Queensland in Australia. "If it happens to come down in the middle of the ocean and it's not near a shipping lane or something, who knows how long it could take them to find?"
Advertisement

Amid the confusion, officials involved in the search say the Malaysian jet may have made a U-turn, adding one more level of uncertainty to the effort to find it. They even suggest that the plane could be hundreds of kilometres from where it was last detected.

Aviation experts say the plane will be found — eventually. Since the start of the jet age in 1958, only a handful of jets have gone missing and not been found.

"I'm absolutely confident that we will find this airplane," Captain John M. Cox, who spent 25 years flying for US Airways and is now CEO of Safety Operating Systems, said on Monday. The modern pace of communications, where GPS features in our cars and smartphones tell us our location at any given moment, has set unreal expectations. "This is not the first time we have had to wait a few days to find the wreckage."

Based on what he's heard, Captain Cox believes it's increasingly clear that the plane somehow veered from its normal flight path. He said that after the plane disappeared from radar, it must have been "intact and flew for some period of time. Beyond that, it's all speculation." If it had exploded midair along its normal flight path, "we would have found it by now."

Read more: http://www.smh.com.au/world/missing...ts-not-hard-20140311-hvh7a.html#ixzz2vb6R1XgJ

BBM: to be sure some of the passengers had smartphones I know this is really reaching out there but I wonder if any of these phones have been tracked. I'm thinking that a lot of information is being purposefully kept from the public, such as the actual names of the two people who had stolen passports and who had tickets purchased from Mr. Ali.

 

[catatonia]

Notice how the 1 hour, 20 minutes my husband said it took him to fly matches the two times we are aware of in this case; from 40 minutes to 2 hours, the two times in question, equals 1 hour and 20 minutes. Weird.
That's the same amount of time my husband said he used to fly without radar protection.

Maybe that's why it took so long for it reported to by missing?

Then again, wouldn't other aircrafts flying in/through that area have to go off radar, too?

 

[kimi_SFC]

Why do I have the feeling that this plane didn't crash? This could be a hijack with an abrupt dive into "below radar" airspace. Isn't that completely possible? But if so, the question is: where did it go? It would need a long runway...

I don't know, it just seems odd that there is zero trace.

Took me forever to finish reading thread number one.
On his way out the door, my husband told me something about his flying experience in Asia.
Keep in mind this was roughly twenty years ago and he flew a small airplane called a C-12.

He frequently flew out of Bangkok - Hanoi - Ho Chi Minh City.
Back then Vietnam didn't have radar. He's aware they have radar today but questioned outloud how sophisticated their system is.
In other words, can it give enough information if something happened 35,000 ft. above the sea.

During these flights, he was required to fly eighty miles out from land over the sea when flying between Hanoi and Ho Chi Min.
He used the term 'unnerving' to describe these trips because he was flying for around 300 miles (about 1 hr. 20 mins) "not under positive radar control".
No one knew where the plane was during those 300 miles so, if the plane went down, there'd be no record of it.

He said they flew at about 8,000 ft. above the South China Sea (versus 35,000 ft. for the 777) which equates to under two miles up in the sky.

For those of us who have no concept of piloting an airplane I found his story interesting (also happy I didn't know the specific dangers back then!).

The reason I posted this is because of the discrepancies between times the plane went off radar or considered to have gone missing.
One time reported is about 40 mins. into the flight (2 mins prior to when the contact with Vietnam was supposed to happen) versus about two hours into the flight.
Husband said, the pilot would initiate contact with the tower and if no person responded, there would still be an electronic footprint regardless.*

*Based on my limited notes and fast talking husband.:crazy: (impatient too. :shush

Notice how the 1 hour, 20 minutes my husband said it took him to fly matches the two times we are aware of in this case; from 40 minutes to 2 hours, the two times in question, equals 1 hour and 20 minutes. Weird.
That's the same amount of time my husband said he used to fly without radar protection.

Based on the extensive discussion here, and analysis of the experts who have contributed here at WS, I am left with only one logical conclusion, as we are all sitting here, scratching our heads ,trying to make sense of a 777-200 seemingly disappearing without a trace.

If it had crashed, logic dictates there would be some sort of footprint left - somewhere. There is no way every single piece of an aircraft of this size can go into the ocean, fragment, and not resurface, never to be found by the many agencies actively searching for it. JMO

Jumping off of the quoted posts above, if the plane's transponders were disabled during period of lack of radar coverage, and the direction of the plane changed, its final landing point/search area could have changed. If it managed to land in an uninhabited area, how would we know? Is this within the realm of possibility? Apparently so :moo:

My point is that it is just as likely that the plane managed to land as it is that it crashed, because we just haven't seen anything to rule a crash in (physical evidence over land or sea of any kind), therefore, we must keep an open mind, and examine the possible landing sites that can accommodate the 777-200.

This is truly a mystery of epic proportions.

:moo:
:twocents:

 

[catatonia]

I wonder if any of these phones have been tracked. I'm thinking that a lot of information is being purposefully kept from the public, such as the actual names of the two people who had stolen passports and who had tickets purchased from Mr. Ali.

As for the mobile phones, for all I know, authorities haven't comentened on that so far.

I would guess they don't release any names in order to protect their families? Until now, their involvement is only speculation.

 

[popsicle]

Based on the extensive discussion here, and analysis of the experts who have contributed here at WS, I am left with only one logical conclusion, as we are all sitting here, scratching our heads ,trying to make sense of a 777-200 seemingly disappearing without a trace.

If it had crashed, logic dictates there would be some sort of footprint left - somewhere. There is no way every single piece of an aircraft of this size can go into the ocean, fragment, and not resurface, never to be found by the many agencies actively searching for it. JMO

Jumping off of the quoted posts above, if the plane's transponders were disabled during period of lack of radar coverage, and the direction of the plane changed, its final landing point/search area could have changed. If it managed to land in an uninhabited area, how would we know? Is this within the realm of possibility? Apparently so :moo:

My point is that it is just as likely that the plane managed to land as it is that it crashed, because we just haven't seen anything to rule a crash in (physical evidence over land or sea of any kind), therefore, we must keep an open mind, and examine the possible landing sites that can accommodate the 777-200.

This is truly a mystery of epic proportions.

:moo:
:twocents:

Not only is there no physical evidence but there have been no reports of an explosion etc, that I have seen.

 

[revampz]

Hi everyone.....it is morning here in Australia so I am up and at it again......I dreamt about this plane last night!!!!! really I did!!

A couple of things:

1. So now we know the 5 that didn't get on the plane checked in individually and not as a group!!!!! I find that very very odd, like I said before I worked in the travel industry for 15 years and of course you get no shows etc, but 5 like this on one flight is odd when they are not a group...

2. God I hope North Korea has not downed this with a missile that we do not know of....

3. Steely Dan and others mentioned flying under the radar..........I was really wondering if this is a possible scenario as well, as they have had those reports, 2 separate I think, of people seeing a plane flying low.......

4. If this is the case and it is hijacked somewhere, it means they would have had to have taken everyones mobiles and tech devices to stop someone getting a message out!!

5. What is going on with this debris field they thought they had found???

6. Can someone please tell me with a EU passport: If you have an EU passport, when you arrive in an EU country do you go straight thru immigration without any passport and visa checks....

The reason I ask this is as an Australian travelling on a one way ticket, we would be asked a million questions going into amerstdam or Copenhagen (the final destinations on the one way tickets I think)...are we leaving, are we there for tourist purposes, have enough money to stay etc..........

If eu passport holders go straight thru, then chances are it was for illegal immigration purposes.......the one way ticket has me asking...


Also found this: some supposed facts

http://www.realfarmacy.com/six-impo...told-about-lost-malaysia-airlines-flight-370/

 

[Melly53]

Radar Playback of the Moment Malaysia Flight 370 Vanished! - YouTube

Has this, or can this even be, discussed?

Sort of goes with a conspiracy, especially the follow up the poster has to this specific video.

I watched this in the morning and it's been with me the entire day.

(Hopefully I am not crossing a TOS anywhere. I haven't ever posted a youtube video!!)

https://www.facebook.com/flightradar24
<adding link to applications fb due to their explanation>

WTF???

Titled: Busted! Flight Radar Caught Changing Flight Path of Malaysia Flight 370!&#65279;

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hNZtz-HVy6c

 

[Intermezzo]

As kimi posted

A mystery of epic proportions

http://www.hindustantimes.com/world...ife-raft-not-from-plane/article1-1193302.aspx

"The disappearance of a Malaysian airliner about an hour into a flight to Beijing is an "unprecedented mystery", the civil aviation chief said on Monday,

Dozens of ships and aircraft from 10 countries scoured the seas around Malaysia and south of Vietnam "

The United States extensively reviewed imagery taken by American spy satellites for evidence of a mid-air explosion, but saw none, a US government source said. The source described U.S. satellite coverage of the region as thorough.

 

[catatonia]

I think there was even one article saying that the satellite coverage showed no signs of explosions. Is this reliable information, or in other words, does it eliminate the possibility of disintegration?

 

[lonetraveler]

As for the mobile phones, for all I know, authorities haven't comentened on that so far.

I would guess they don't release any names in order to protect their families? Until now, their involvement is only speculation.

I was the one who mentioned the cell phones on the plane. I also wonder if this airline allowed cell phone calls during flight; if so, did any family have conversations with the missing passengers during the flight and might have a clue..............just thinking out loud here.

 

[CoverMeCagney]

............

6. Can someone please tell me with a EU passport: If you have an EU passport, when you arrive in an EU country do you go straight thru immigration without any passport and visa checks....

The reason I ask this is as an Australian travelling on a one way ticket, we would be asked a million questions going into amerstdam or Copenhagen (the final destinations on the one way tickets I think)...are we leaving, are we there for tourist purposes, have enough money to stay etc..........

If eu passport holders go straight thru, then chances are it was for illegal immigration purposes.......the one way ticket has me asking...

Still have to show passport in other EU countries but don't need visas, further questions are fairly unusual (in my own experience and I have never heard of fellow Brits being questioned too rigorously) but still have to get through passport control and customs. No form filling like on some longer haul flights.

Illegal immigration purposes are a definite possibility in the case of "Luigi & Christian", it may just be coincidence they were on that flight, I reckon our Iranian friend "Mr Ali" might well know more about this! The fact he apparently asked the ticket agent for the cheapest route suggests he did not dictate which airline or flightpath they travelled on.

 

[Intermezzo]

As for the mobile phones, for all I know, authorities haven't comentened on that so far.

I would guess they don't release any names in order to protect their families? Until now, their involvement is only speculation.

Yes, it is only speculation

And right now I just heard that they are backing away from terrorism theory

http://www.hindustantimes.com/world...ife-raft-not-from-plane/article1-1193302.aspx

A European diplomat in Kuala Lumpur cautioned that the Malaysian capital was an Asian hub for illegal migrants, many of whom used false documents and complex routes including via Beijing or West Africa to reach a final destination in Europe.

"You shouldn't automatically think that the fact there were two people on the plane with false passports had anything to do with the disappearance of the plane," the diplomat said. "The more you know about the role of Kuala Lumpur in this chain, the more doubtful you are of the chances of a linkage."

 

[CoverMeCagney]

Why aren't we hearing much from the families of the Chinese, or indeed family/friends of anyone on the flight? I'd have expected stories about the passengers by now.