Malaysia airlines plane may have crashed 239 people on board #5

[Intermezzo]

Good evening all

Just got home from work and I am wondering are there any new developments?

 

[ElleElle]

Why is transponder made available to the pilot to turn on or off?

Why,/when would a pilot want to turn it off?

"Q. How do you turn off a transponder?
There is a switch that you would move from "ON" or "SBY" (standby) or "ALT" (altitude). You could also pull the circuit breaker for the transponder in the cockpit.
Q. Why would you turn off a transponder during a normal flight?
There could be several reasons. One reason could be when airplanes get close to each other (perhaps they are approaching an airport). Air traffic controllers may then request pilots to turn the transponders off or to standby. Also, if the transponder is sending faulty information, the pilot might want to turn it off. Planes are still visible on primary radar until they get below the radar's coverage ability."


Crazy how easy it is to turn off a transponder.


Source: http://www.cnn.com/2014/03/12/world/asia/malaysia-airlines-transponder-explainer/

 

[starry77]

Based on the bizarre behaviors of the Malaysians over this whole thing, I have now allowed my mind to consider: Could some factor or group within the Malaysians themselves be behind this? And if so, how and why?

How: Pilot and co-pilot were given orders and they followed them. Turn plane around. Then either come back to Malaysia (maybe even to the same airport or the smallest one that has a long enough runway) or go to some other pre-arranged place (which countries are buddy buddy with Malaysia ?). It would have been in the middle of the night when the plane returned. I assume the U.S. is looking at any and every place within flying distance that has a runway long enough to have accepted this plane.

Why: I really don't know the answer to this. Who are Malaysias enemies? The Chinese? Perhaps someone high up in the Malaysian government thought it would somehow "show the Chinese a lesson" to kidnap those 20 Chinese technology experts?

Whoever would/could have done this had to have: 1.) been a real idiot 2.) had a LOT of power to persuade 3.) been totally out of touch with reality to have thought there would not be an enormous amount of international interest in the incident

The whole "move along here, nothing to see hear" attitude - of even the President of the country - is suspicious to me.

Any thoughts?

I think it is certainly a possibility, though their "move-along" attitudes could be attributed to an attempt to cover up erroneous investigating.

I would also not rule out China completely. I found it particularly of note their state-run newspaper slamming Malaysia for not releasing information and then the next day (IIRC) they released photos they had apparently had for multiple days. Hm.

 

[sherlockh]

Starting to sound like a very well planned pilot suicide. He does not want the plane found obviously, and so far he succeeded. I don't believe in the hijackers theory. This is too well planned. The plane just happened to be in between leaving Malaysia and entering Vietnamese airspace. I don't see an outside hijacker knowing this.

Another theory is some sort of an electrical event, turned around, out of oxygen, and kept flying in a straight line.

While that could suggest a deliberate act, CBS News aviation and safety expert Capt. Chesley "Sully" Sullenberger cautioned that it is "conceivable" that the communications systems could shut down sequentially on their own in the event of a catastrophic electrical failure. He said the systems in a plane are so compartmentalized that things could shut down in a cascading, domino fashion instead of all at once.

http://www.cbsnews.com/news/communications-systems-aboard-malaysian-jet-were-shut-down-separately/

Either way, I think it is in the middle of the Indian Ocean. JMO.

 

[momrids6]

Here is a video of primary radar display. If you are watching real time you will see the blip(target) moving. Same with replays. Based on the signature(blip size, how fast it is moving) experts can tell what kind of aircraft it is with relative confidence.

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dp4CyShpjpI"]R.A.D.A.R. Scanner - YouTube[/ame]

 

[ElleElle]

They wouldn't. They have no reason to.
When a transponder gets turned off, it raises my hinky meter.

:seeya: ilovepierre, there are not many reasons why one be turned off.

Even it is turned off or faulty, why isn't there a back-up system?

 

[Tssiemer]

Can a planes autopilot be hacked?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[CARIIS]

why the capability exists to switch off a transponder. In fact very few of a plane’s components are hot-wired to be, as you might say, “always on.” In the interest of safety — namely, fire and electrical system protection — it’s important to have the ability to isolate a piece of equipment, either by a standard switch or, if need be, through a circuit breaker. Also transponders will occasionally malfunction and transmit erroneous or incomplete data, at which point a crew will recycle the device — switching it off, then on — or swap to another unit. Typically at least two transponders are onboard, and you can’t run both simultaneously. Bear in mind too that switching the unit “off” might refer to only one of the various subfunctions, or “modes” — for example, mode C, mode S — responsible for different data.
And transponders are only used for tracking in areas of air traffic control radar coverage. Much of the world — most of it, actually, when you consider the size of the oceans — is not covered by ATC radar. Tracking and sequencing in these areas is accomplished through other means. So all of this fixating on transponders isn’t necessarily relevant. The transponder stopped working, but apparently so did the rest of the plane’s communications equipment. Or did it? This isn’t clear.

http://www.askthepilot.com/malaysia-airlines-flight-370/

I thought this was a neat notion in the piece

the question at hand ought to be what happened on board the jet, not where is the jet.

 

[tlcya]

Thank you EllleElle, I had that same question.

 

[Chilly Willy]

I heard an expert a little while ago on cnn stating that systems could've shut down one by one. I'm going back to mechanical problem.
Flipping and flopping!

<snipped>

What would have caused that to happen, and why wouldn't the pilot relay that information to ground control? What would have kept the plane flying for four hours afterwards? Why would it have happened in the short time that the plane was between radars?

 

[Isabelle]

There are two, only one operates at a time. A switch on the transponder panel (labeled with positions L and R) selects the left one or the right one.

It was mentioned on either Fox or CNN that one of the pieces of equipment deliberately turned off would be located under the cockpit floor and would take a bit of work to get to. Adenoid do you know which equipment this would be?

 

[Chilly Willy]

:seeya: ilovepierre, there are not many reasons why one be turned off.

Even it is turned off or faulty, why isn't there a back-up system?

There is a back-up. The planes are equipped with two transmitters. If one fails, the other can be switched on.

 

[lawstudent]

Just trying to wrap my head around pilot/co-pilot suicide theory.

If either the pilot or co-pilot had decided they wanted to commit suicide, killed the other, than turned off the transponders and either killed themselves or let the plane do the job, what about the flight attendants?

If the scheduled flight went over the time it normally took, I think the flight attendants would have questioned that and tried contacting the captain or the co-pilot. If they were unable to communicate with the flight crew I think the flight attendants would have contacted or alerted someone on the ground to a problem.

I guess my question is this: Is there a way for the flight attendants to make contact with the outside world on an airliner????

They do have those phones that passengers can use on most all US flights, so I would think so.

If this was a suicide mission and the transponder was turned off and the plane allowed to fly on auto pilot until it ran out of fuel, than why didn't anyone on the plane make contact with someone on the ground?

Suicide and the plane flying on for hours just doesn't make sense, unless the pilots killed or incapacitated all those on board. The only way I can think of doing that would be to set off some kind of chemical bomb on board.

JMO

If the pilot wanted to kill himself, I would assume he locked everyone out of the cockpit, and maybe there was no way for them to radio for help, or if it was quick and not over a period of hours, they didn't realize anything was wrong. I assume the attendants have some sort of phone, though.

I don't find the Malaysian attitude that suspicious - some countries go really far with that "who, me?" thing and cover all sorts of things up. I think it was Libya that made it illegal for its citizens to discuss politics with any non-Libyan - I mean, talk about advertising the fact that you have something to hide. It's a population control thing more than the result of a specific incident they want to keep secret.

Notice all the "mays" and "indicates". Nothing here is confirmed. This "indicates" the plane did not explode - outlets are incorrectly reporting it definitively. The source is saying that the pilot turned off the transponder and it didn't just fail, which indicates the disaster wasn't the result of some sort of unexpected failure. But it isn't saying we know 100% there was no incident - just that another motive is now highly possible. Data was transmitted by the plane for hours - so it "may" have continued to fly.

 

[liljim]

CNN is saying that after looking at all of the evidence today US officials now think that the plane was purposefully flown out over the indian ocean and crashed.

 

[gitana1]

There are two, only one operates at a time. A switch on the transponder panel (labeled with positions L and R) selects the left one or the right one.

I've come to realize it's no use guessing. I just don't have enough knowledge of aviation. So, Adnoid, what do you think?

 

[catatonia]

Im praying they overlooked the engine transmissions.

I have no doubt the lack of tracking by Malysian air control is the main reason a Malaysian plane was chosen.

again implies pilot cooperation.

Not necessarily, it could be just as well someone with "local" military and aviation knowledge, who has worked in this field for some time to gain sufficient know-how, background information or whatever, to provide another one being involved with this information.

Haven't thought of this scenario yet, but since all we can do is wait and speculate, why not?

Also, corruption has been brought up several times, so that an infiltration of the system doesn't seem unlikely.

 

[ElleElle]

Do we know for sure it actually kept flying for hours? Or is that just rumor at this point? I agree there is almost no way the pilot just drove around for hours before committing suicide. That would be incredibly odd and pointless, as would turning off the transponder - unless the theory is that he didn't want anyone to know it was a suicide so he didn't want it to be found. It seems quite unlikely to me, but so do all the other scenarios.

A mechanical failure such as Helios Airways Flight 522; an error changing the pressurization system from manual - auto or vice-versa?

 

[CARIIS]

Great post thanx!

Nah, they were looking for crash debris. Almost put myself to sleep a couple times looking at over 1400 tiles of ocean waves. But I stopped looking this A.M.; I'm more convinced today (JMO) that we are not looking for wreckage, but an intact plane (with hopefully surviving passengers) somewhere.



I'm thinking along those same lines. Not everyone is (can be) as clueless as they've been trying to lead us to believe.



Here are a few more facts:

• NO satellite record of midair explosion in the region

• NO unaccounted for debris found on all the satellite tiles viewed at least 30 times each

• 'Pings' picked up by US space satellite for several hours after the plane disappeared from Malaysian radar. (If it happened, it happened. There can be no denying it later.)

• More than 20 top technology people (non USA citizens) aboard that plane, including a mysterious PhD professor of technology and a group of Chinese and Malaysian nationals headed to a business conference on a Saturday morning, from a company named Freespace that specializes in high-technology electronic warfare and the production of radar-blocking aeronautic technology

• the airplane's transponders that are used for radar communication were turned off (and manually is the only way according to experienced pilots)

• US intelligence has determined deliberate, intentional, 2-part action in the above

In addition, there were reports of engine readings sent automatically by systems in the Boeing indicating the plane was in the air for 4 more hours after the last radar contact. While that's yet another thing some governments are trying to deny now, from what I understand, the sending of those transmissions is passive, something built into the Boeing 777 (and it's variants), and not something the pilot would actively send or not send. So the fact that people would first mention the readings, then deny receiving them, is also suspicious, IMO.

 

[eileenhawkeye]

You're not thinking like a terrorist. Planes are expensive - why waste one of your own when you can steal someone else's? Perhaps part of the thrill is the risk. Failing is just taking one for the cause, there's always another terrorist ready to step up and take your place. I think whoever hijacked this plane (assuming) is planning to make a statement, a much bigger one than simply hijacking a plane. This was not a whim, it was a very well researched and well executed plan, IMO, and it hasn't reached stage 2 yet.

People would have thought 9/11 was impossible yet it happened.

But this plan is significantly more sophisticated than 9/11. The terrorists have to outsmart the most powerful countries in the world, all of who are looking for the plane, on high alert, using all intelligence possible. It's more complex than taking advantage of lax airport security.

 

[momrids6]

"The data reporting system, they believe, was shut down at 1:07 a.m." The data system they are referring to is ACARS.

from a pilot: "Shutting off ACARS is like shutting off your PC ... the network (ISP) sees this but the ISP network link to your modem and router is still active."

http://www.airliners.net/aviation-forums/general_aviation/read.main/6022602/#31 Reply 66


Flightradar has data till 1:21, meaning ADS-B was transmitting till then.
Actually this is the best and only factual data the public has. Everything else is noise.

http://www.flightradar24.com/