MD - Freddie Gray dies in police custody #1

[i.b.nora]

Re: Brian Rice one of the suspended officers has previous personal history with domestic violence. A comment from a Police talking head says (paraphrasing) "whatever happened in his personal life should not factor in to how he handles his job." - from CNN

 

[SStarr33]

Just in: Full statement from Baltimore Fraternal Order of Police regarding #FreddieGray

https://twitter.com/elizondogabriel/status/590985745017503746/photo/1

 

[Zuri]

This video shows the arrest from a different angle. Someone posted it earlier but it didn't show it in full. At the end of the video, it looks like Mr. Gray stands on on his own on the back of the van.

http://www.baltimoresun.com/news/ma...reddie-gray-arrest-20150420-premiumvideo.html

On WBAL news on right now, they said that investigators are looking over all the other police video to see if it shows more.

I am just reading about this for the first time. Thanks for all the links and info. This may have been asked and answered already, as I am far behind.

From the video, it looks as though Mr. Gray is having difficulty moving his legs, has been incontinent of urine. I didn't see any weight bearing on his part. Did he suffer subluxation of his cervical spine initially? And was his head forced backwards or forwards? A fractured trachea and 3 fractured cervical vertebra? What the heck happened in that police van?

 

[mysteriew]

Everybody just keeps asking what happened in the van. I am sorry but IMO they either lunged at him from the bikes or they clotheslined him and caused the injuries IMO. Moving him caused further injury and swelling caused further deteriation making it look like it was caused in the van.

 

[i.b.nora]

It seems to me that the Police Union attorney et al are promoting the notion that "whatever happened, something happened in that van" and that therefore, without actually saying it, they are suggesting that Freddie Gray fatally injured himself in the van. Just my take after watching their press conference and listening to the questions and answers. My opinion only, subject to reevaluation at any time.

 

[Zuri]

In this video at about :45, you can see him standing on the back part of the van:

http://cnnios-f.akamaihd.net/i/cnn/...650,840,1240,.mp4.csmil/master.m3u8?__b__=650

Since they said he was irate in the back of the van and that is why they had to put him in leg irons, I'm wondering if the comments on the FB page might be correct. The testimony from the other prisoner is going to be interesting. If it exonerates the police, I hope they put him in the witness protection program.

Interesting in this video, that he seems to be weight bearing on one leg and his turning his head to one side. Could he have hit that stone wall in the initial video? All I hear is him yelling in one syllable, not talking. Are there any videos of him talking?

Also, why did they have to use leg irons on him? Did the Cervical fractures impede blood supply or bone fragments cause further damage?

 

[SStarr33]

Interesting in this video, that he seems to be weight bearing on one leg and his turning his head to one side. Could he have hit that stone wall in the initial video? All I hear is him yelling in one syllable, not talking. Are there any videos of him talking?

Also, why did they have to use leg irons on him? Did the Cervical fractures impede blood supply or bone fragments cause further damage?

According to LE, he was irate in the van so they had to put him in leg irons. There was another prisoner in the van, so hopefully he/she will give us some info

 

[Elley Mae]

I am clueless as to what happens to a person that suffers from asthma, I mean physically do sufferers have seizures or convulse? TIA

 

[mysteriew]

It seems to me that the Police Union attorney et al are promoting the notion that "whatever happened, something happened in that van" and that therefore, without actually saying it, they are suggesting that Freddie Gray fatally injured himself in the van. Just my take after watching their press conference and listening to the questions and answers. My opinion only, subject to reevaluation at any time.

That would kind of resolve the problem for the officers. And since there were no officers in the van, no danger of getting anyone else in trouble. And no cameras to refute what they are saying.

 

[Zuri]

http://emedicine.medscape.com/article/865277-overview#3

Injuries associated with larengeal fractures, one of them is cervical spine fractures.

Both sites state direct pressure.

It is pretty tough to fracture your larynx for the reasons described above. In Motor Vehicle Crashes, we see laryngeal fractures when people hit their throat/neck region on the steering wheel. Typically, there is a fair amount of blunt force that causes the fracture. Could he have hit his head on the roof of the van during transport? But that would be a compression force?

 

[Zuri]

I am clueless as to what happens to a person that suffers from asthma, I mean physically do sufferers have seizures or convulse? TIA

They would seize or convulse due to lack of oxygen to the brain.

 

[mysteriew]

Interesting in this video, that he seems to be weight bearing on one leg and his turning his head to one side. Could he have hit that stone wall in the initial video? All I hear is him yelling in one syllable, not talking. Are there any videos of him talking?

Also, why did they have to use leg irons on him? Did the Cervical fractures impede blood supply or bone fragments cause further damage?

According to the links I have posted a larnyx fracture happens due to direct pressure. Usually a car accident. But the sports injury site refers to a "wash line" tackle. Where one player stretches out his arm and catches his opponent in the throat. The second site mentions cervical fractures could be a complication with this type of injury.

 

[mysteriew]

They would seize or convulse due to lack of oxygen to the brain.

And before they got to that point the difficulty breathing should have been apparent to the officers.

 

[Tawny]

Re: Brian Rice one of the suspended officers has previous personal history with domestic violence. A comment from a Police talking head says (paraphrasing) "whatever happened in his personal life should not factor in to how he handles his job." - from CNN

IMO, it absolutely should factor into how he handles his job if it involves violence of any kind!

According to the links I have posted a larnyx fracture happens due to direct pressure. Usually a car accident. But the sports injury site refers to a "wash line" tackle. Where one player stretches out his arm and catches his opponent in the throat. The second site mentions cervical fractures could be a complication with this type of injury.

This sounds really plausible, IMHO. A clothesine move damages his larynx and then he falls backwards, damaging verbetrae?

 

[Zuri]

http://emedicine.medscape.com/article/865277-overview#3

Injuries associated with larengeal fractures, one of them is cervical spine fractures.

Both sites state direct pressure.

Very good article. The larynx is cartilage, really thick cartilage. Mr. Gray may have been experiencing what we call inspiratory stridor, which is basically gasping for air, using all you chest muscles to breathe. That may be why he was asking for his inhaler. That right there was a medical emergency. I have seen way too many asthmatic patients, who don't even have a fractured larynx, "punk out" and require intubation.

 

[mysteriew]

This is going to appear off topic but please bear with me:

I have broken bones in both my feet at different times. Both times I got up and walked a short distance. When it first happened there was no swelling. After walking there was localized swelling and it was getting more painful.
I kept it elevated but by the time I got to a medical facility it was extremely painful, and I wouldn't have dreamed of touching it to the floor. Swelling was worse also.

The bones in the feet are small, they take time to produce swelling. But as time went by it got more swollen and more painful. I think that is what was happening with Mr Gray.

 

[Tawny]

I understand that sometimes, a suspect will try to fake out cops by pretending to be injured... but we should pretty much always, and safely, give the benefit of the doubt and provide medical assistance. They should have called an ambulance when he couldn't walk and was begging for his inhaler. :/

 

[mysteriew]

IMO, it absolutely should factor into how he handles his job if it involves violence of any kind!



This sounds really plausible, IMHO. A clothesine move damages his larynx and then he falls backwards, damaging verbetrae?

No it is more a "whiplash" effect. The force hitting the throat pushes the head back beyond normal range. If force is severe enough it will actually break the vertebrae.

 

[Zuri]

And before they got to that point the difficulty breathing should have been apparent to the officers.

Agreed most certainly. The OP asked about asthmatics and seizures, which is why my response was worded that way. Mr. Gray did not seem to be in acute respiratory distress initially on video as his moans were audible, and didn't seem to have trouble moving air. But I didn't hear him speaking which would give me pause. Also, the front of his jeans appeared wet, as in incontinence.

If a clothesline tackle was used, was it the bicycle cops or did Mr. Gray run into something?

 

[SStarr33]

Can you speak with a fx larynx? Because if you can't, I 'm not sure how he asked for an inhaler.

That, to me is evidence that this happened after he got in the van.