GUILTY MI - 4 students killed, 6 injured, Oxford High School shooting, 30 Nov 2021 *Arrest incl parents* *teen guilty* #4

[BetteDavisEyes]

Oxford High School shooter can be sentenced to life without parole, judge rules

The shooter, who was 15 at the time, was charged as an adult last year after gunning down four of his classmates and wounding seven others Nov. 21, 2021.

www.nbcnews.com

A Michigan judge has ruled that the 17-year-old Oxford High School shooter can be sentenced to life in prison without the possibility of parole during a Miller hearing Friday morning.

Ethan Crumbley appeared virtually from jail in an orange jumpsuit for his Miller hearing, a proceeding held as he is a minor to determine if he could sentenced to life in prison...

Oakland County Judge Kwamé Rowe said Friday that the court couldn’t find reason that he could be rehabilitated and the crime does not bear the “hallmarks of youth” as such, he can be sentenced to life without the possibility of parole...

 

[ChatteringBirds]

The defendant continues to be obsessed with violence and could not stop his obsession even while incarcerated at the jail," Rowe said...If defendant continues to be obsessed with violence in the jail, how can there be a possibility of rehabilitation?"

Judge rules Oxford shooter eligible for life without parole sentence

A judge ruled that prosecutors met the burden of proof to show that the shooter deserves to spend the rest of his life in prison.

eu.detroitnews.com

My idealistic self wants to believe that maybe maybe maybe with the right therapist a young mass murderer can change over a few decades.

However I also think that empathy comes from life experience, and he is -rightly- not going to gain that while incarcerated.

 

[ilovewings]

Oxford High School shooter can be sentenced to life without parole, judge rules

The shooter, who was 15 at the time, was charged as an adult last year after gunning down four of his classmates and wounding seven others Nov. 21, 2021.

www.nbcnews.com

A Michigan judge has ruled that the 17-year-old Oxford High School shooter can be sentenced to life in prison without the possibility of parole during a Miller hearing Friday morning.

Ethan Crumbley appeared virtually from jail in an orange jumpsuit for his Miller hearing, a proceeding held as he is a minor to determine if he could sentenced to life in prison...

Oakland County Judge Kwamé Rowe said Friday that the court couldn’t find reason that he could be rehabilitated and the crime does not bear the “hallmarks of youth” as such, he can be sentenced to life without the possibility of parole...

I have to say I am stunned but totally agree with the judge

 

[Marysmith]

I respect the judge but sincerely this could have been worse as horrible as that is to say. Ethan stopped himself. He surrendered himself. I actually do think this is the right sentence but I also think Ethan has shown some empathy.

 

[Cool Cats]

I respect the judge but sincerely this could have been worse as horrible as that is to say. Ethan stopped himself. He surrendered himself. I actually do think this is the right sentence but I also think Ethan has shown some empathy.

Cops stopped Ethan, he didn't want to get shot dead.

 

[Cool Cats]

So it looks like on December 8th, Ethan Crumbley will be sentenced to life without parole. The judge provided the background evidence that he took into consideration in making his decision.

Now, I am sure, the defense will appeal and EC will be held in jail until such time as the appeal is decided. And then transfer to prison, if Judge Kwame Rowe's verdict stands.

The jaihouse will have to beef up its security, as EC will now have to deal with this probable sentence on December 8.

He can't appeal his conviction because he pled guilty and I'm not sure if he can appeal his sentence, if so, he will appeal it from prison.

Inmates do not stay in jail while they appeal, they do it from prison. Jails are not designed to house inmates during years and years of appeals, inmates must immediately begin serving their prison sentences.

When EC is sentenced he will be immediately remanded into the custody of the Michigan Department of Corrections - MDOC.


2 Cents

 

[Sundog]

He can't appeal his conviction because he pled guilty and I'm not sure if he can appeal his sentence, if so, he will appeal it from prison.

Inmates do not stay in jail while they appeal, they do it from prison. Jails are not designed to house inmates during years and years of appeals, inmates must immediately begin serving their prison sentences.

When EC is sentenced he will be immediately remanded into the custody of the Michigan Department of Corrections - MDOC.


2 Cents

I was watching Court TV while the Judge was reading his ruling on the Miller hearing. An attorney from Michigan was being interviewed during the hearing, an attorney who practices law in Michigan and knew that courtroom and judge well. He said that the judge was being incredibly thorough because it was likely that the defense would appeal his ruling on the Miller hearings.

 

[IAMWAN]

I respect the judge but sincerely this could have been worse as horrible as that is to say. Ethan stopped himself. He surrendered himself. I actually do think this is the right sentence but I also think Ethan has shown some empathy.

I would never classify his reason for stopping as empathy. He planned to surrender to police and live the rest of his life in prison. He wanted the fame and notoriety. IMO, if the police had taken longer to get there, he would have kept killing.His goal (that he clearly stated) was to kill as many people as possible until he had to stop. (Edited by me to rephrase my first sentence)

 

[BetteDavisEyes]

I was watching Court TV while the Judge was reading his ruling on the Miller hearing. An attorney from Michigan was being interviewed during the hearing, an attorney who practices law in Michigan and knew that courtroom and judge well. He said that the judge was being incredibly thorough because it was likely that the defense would appeal his ruling on the Miller hearings.

I'm sure the defense will appeal, but Judge Rowe's ruling was extremely thorough and convincing. I had not been swayed by either the prosecutor's or the defense's closing arguments at the conclusion of the Miller hearing. The defense certainly did not convince me that Ethan would never again commit a heinous crime or that there was any certainty of his being completely rehabilitated. Until yesterday, I was on the fence about what Ethan's punishment should be. As of now, I won't lose any sleep if Judge Rowe sentences Ethan to life in prison without parole. JMO

 

[BetteDavisEyes]

I have to say I am stunned but totally agree with the judge

I was on the fence about what Ethan's punishment should be until I listened to Judge Rowe read his thorough and convincing ruling. It's doubtful that Ethan can be successfully rehabilitated to the point that he would never again commit a heinous crime. Life in prison without the possibility of parole is probably the best option. JMO

 

[Sundog]

I was on the fence about what Ethan's punishment should be until I listened to Judge Rowe read his thorough and convincing ruling. It's doubtful that Ethan can be successfully rehabilitated to the point that he would never again commit a heinous crime. Life in prison without the possibility of parole is probably the best option. JMO

I need to read the Judge's ruling in full before making a final opinion. I only was able to watch about half of the hearing where the judge was reading his ruling. The part that I watched wasn't convincing to me, but I would like to read the whole thing once it is available online.

The judge talked about proportionality in making his decision, regarding the crime and the Miller hearing criteria. In several instances, I don't think the evidence presented was as clear as his opinion stated. But I would need to read the entire ruling to realy track the different evidence he presented and how he weighed it.

The expert that I felt was the most credible was the one who works at University of Michigan (or maybe it was MSU?) and the conclusion seemed to be that we just don't really know which young person can be rehabilitated. But it would seem that there is a chance. There would be parole hearings after 40 years, so I believe at that time they would know if EC should be paroled or not.

I do hope the defense appeals so that other judicial officers can examine the case and either confirm the judge's opinion based on the evidence or not. I really don't think that the prosecution's expert witness made a case for life without parole, but would like to read the judge's ruling in full.

MOO

 

[texaslb218]

MOO
I do not believe anyone is safe with EC out of full custody. I do not think it is worth the chance that will be taken if he is ever paroled. I hope that he is held forever with no chance to fulfill his desires by action. I did listen to the judge's explanation.

 

[Cool Cats]

I was watching Court TV while the Judge was reading his ruling on the Miller hearing. An attorney from Michigan was being interviewed during the hearing, an attorney who practices law in Michigan and knew that courtroom and judge well. He said that the judge was being incredibly thorough because it was likely that the defense would appeal his ruling on the Miller hearings.

Only if the judge sentences him to LWOP, not definite until it happens in Dec. Gotta get him a chance at parole.

 

[Marysmith]

I would never classify his reason for stopping as empathy. He planned to surrender to police and live the rest of his life in prison. He wanted the fame and notoriety. IMO, if the police had taken longer to get there, he would have kept killing.His goal (that he clearly stated) was to kill as many people as possible until he had to stop. (Edited by me to rephrase my first sentence)

I hear you and the previous poster, @IAMWAN. I reread an article I read previously and I think I wanted to believe he had some empathy.
I do believe he should get life in prison though. 4 people were murdered for no reason.

 

[ilovewings]

I was on the fence about what Ethan's punishment should be until I listened to Judge Rowe read his thorough and convincing ruling. It's doubtful that Ethan can be successfully rehabilitated to the point that he would never again commit a heinous crime. Life in prison without the possibility of parole is probably the best option. JMO

It is clear Judge Rowe gave great thought to this issue--- It is a very difficult decision to render, and in my opinion it took courage to make such a controversial decision-- to basically assert a teenager is not
Redeemable--- ever in his lifetime.

 

[ilovewings]

I hear you and the previous poster, @IAMWAN. I reread an article I read previously and I think I wanted to believe he had some empathy.
I do believe he should get life in prison though. 4 people were murder

It isn't just that he murdered four students in cold blood, and injured 7 others, it is the pleasure he took in planning it and then carrying it out. He planned this out for quite a while--- it is also the pleasure he took in videotaping, torturing and killing baby birds- which reveals how much pleasure he takes in torturing and murdering living things. as the judge pointed out he was watching violent videos on his tablet in jail----No one wants to believe a teenager cannot be rehabilitated: it goes against most people's feeling that one so young cannot be so evil ( my choice of that word because that is what I believe he is), that he cannot, with professional help, become at least a person who could live in our society.

 

[Marysmith]

It isn't just that he murdered four students in cold blood, and injured 7 others, it is the pleasure he took in planning it and then carrying it out. He planned this out for quite a while--- it is also the pleasure he took in videotaping, torturing and killing baby birds- which reveals how much pleasure he takes in torturing and murdering living things. as the judge pointed out he was watching violent videos on his tablet in jail----No one wants to believe a teenager cannot be rehabilitated: it goes against most people's feeling that one so young cannot be so evil ( my choice of that word because that is what I believe he is), that he cannot, with professional help, become at least a person who could live in our society.

I just didn’t know enough about the case and defendant specifically, I’m sorry!

 

[ilovewings]

I just didn’t know enough about the case and defendant specifically, I’m sorry!

What are you sorry about? no need to be sorry--- this is just my humble opinion

 

[ChatteringBirds]

it goes against most people's feeling that one so young cannot be so evil ( my choice of that word because that is what I believe he is), that he cannot, with professional help, become at least a person who could live in our society.

There are definitely kids who start committing psychopathic crimes long before 14, who seem to have been born without normal feelings, who take pleasure in harming others their entire lives.

I am not positive Ethan C. was one of those kids. Was he born this empty and angry, or was he "made" this way?

I don't think he was an easy child to raise, but instead of seeking help, I think his parents just distanced themselves and did the minimum, at least emotionally. They bought him a gun. When they were called to his school, because of the drawing he had made -- which I believe was a subconscious cry for help -- they didn't hug him or take him home. He then took his empty angry soul and murdered the peers he also felt rejected by, without remorse, that day.

I don't think the parents of all mass shooters hold some of the blame, but there are some who do. IMO this is one such case.

For me it's sad to think he might not have been born to become this. What if he had had help as a preteen? Or his parents had had help with their difficulties and been more present and thoughtful parents?

But that didn't happen, so it's life without parole, for a choice made at 14.

All that said, the victims are who matter, and preventing future harm to others is what matters. So I understand the decision.

 

[ilovewings]

There are definitely kids who start committing psychopathic crimes long before 14, who seem to have been born without normal feelings, who take pleasure in harming others their entire lives.

I am not positive Ethan C. was one of those kids. Was he born this empty and angry, or was he "made" this way?

I don't think he was an easy child to raise, but instead of seeking help, I think his parents just distanced themselves and did the minimum, at least emotionally. They bought him a gun. When they were called to his school, because of the drawing he had made -- which I believe was a subconscious cry for help -- they didn't hug him or take him home. He then took his empty angry soul and murdered the peers he also felt rejected by, without remorse, that day.

I don't think the parents of all mass shooters hold some of the blame, but there are some who do. IMO this is one such case.

For me it's sad to think he might not have been born to become this. What if he had had help as a preteen? Or his parents had had help with their difficulties and been more present and thoughtful parents?

But that didn't happen, so it's life without parole, for a choice made at 14.

All that said, the victims are who matter, and preventing future harm to others is what matters. So I understand the decision.

There are definitely kids who start committing psychopathic crimes long before 14, who seem to have been born without normal feelings, who take pleasure in harming others their entire lives.

I am not positive Ethan C. was one of those kids. Was he born this empty and angry, or was he "made" this way?

I don't think he was an easy child to raise, but instead of seeking help, I think his parents just distanced themselves and did the minimum, at least emotionally. They bought him a gun. When they were called to his school, because of the drawing he had made -- which I believe was a subconscious cry for help -- they didn't hug him or take him home. He then took his empty angry soul and murdered the peers he also felt rejected by, without remorse, that day.

I don't think the parents of all mass shooters hold some of the blame, but there are some who do. IMO this is one such case.

For me it's sad to think he might not have been born to become this. What if he had had help as a preteen? Or his parents had had help with their difficulties and been more present and thoughtful parents?

But that didn't happen, so it's life without parole, for a choice made at 14.

All that said, the victims are who matter, and preventing future harm to others is what matters. So I understand the decision.

I appreciate your thoughtful post-- we will never know if he was born "bad" or made that way by his parents, or a little of both. I agree his parents are in a special class - which is why they were sued by the prosecution. Buying him a gun? OMG what were they not thinking? At the end of the day though he is what he is. very dangerous.