GUILTY MI - 4 students killed, 6 injured, Oxford High School shooting, 30 Nov 2021 *Arrest incl parents* *teen guilty* #4

[ChatteringBirds]

FWIW, here's another opinion piece from The Detroit News: https://www.detroitnews.com/story/o...ord-shooter-broken-beyond-repair/70547883007/

Interesting opinion piece. Ability to read must depend on location because it opened like a normal non-sub article for me.

It went over some of the reasons his parents face charges and different ways he was neglected by them. It talks about how it can't be assumed there's no chance he could be rehabilitated, how easy it would be to just lock him up forever but how we can't just consider the easy feel-good route for such a complicated case and young defendant.
JMO.

 

[MrsWatson]

I'm glad I'm not the one making this decision. The prosecutor kind of threw a wrench into it, as well. They're charging the parents because they were aware of Ethan's mental health, yet bought him a gun. On the other hand, she is arguing that he has no mental illness and deserves LWOP.

As a native Michigander, I think it's safe to say that LWOP in Michigan means LWOP.

I hate to think that anyone so young is beyond hope. But he deserves long punishment with hopefully some treatment involved. I think life with the possibility of parole after 40 years? 50? could be an appropriate sentence.

But again, I'm glad I'm not making the decision.

 

[Sundog]

I'm glad I'm not the one making this decision. The prosecutor kind of threw a wrench into it, as well. They're charging the parents because they were aware of Ethan's mental health, yet bought him a gun. On the other hand, she is arguing that he has no mental illness and deserves LWOP.

As a native Michigander, I think it's safe to say that LWOP in Michigan means LWOP.

I hate to think that anyone so young is beyond hope. But he deserves long punishment with hopefully some treatment involved. I think life with the possibility of parole after 40 years? 50? could be an appropriate sentence.

But again, I'm glad I'm not making the decision.

Michigan law only allows the judge to sentence a juvenile tried as an adult to either LWOP or LWP maximum of 20-30 years before parole review. So the judge in this case has the option of a 20 year sentence, or up to a 30 year sentence.

Juvenile Life Without Parole

The Supreme Court in 2012 abolished mandatory life sentences without the possibility of parole in Miller v. Alabama. 28 states had mandatory juvenile life without parole sentences that were in conflict with the Supreme Court ruling.

www.ncsl.org

 

[Sundog]

Interesting opinion piece. Ability to read must depend on location because it opened like a normal non-sub article for me.

It went over some of the reasons his parents face charges and different ways he was neglected by them. It talks about how it can't be assumed there's no chance he could be rehabilitated, how easy it would be to just lock him up forever but how we can't just consider the easy feel-good route for such a complicated case and young defendant.
JMO.

Thanks, I couldn't read it either, paywall, maybe because I have already accessed the limit of free articles, who knows.

 

[BetteDavisEyes]

What's been learned during Oxford shooter's hearing to see if life sentence is fair

A hearing will resume Friday to decide whether the teen shooter is eligible for a life in prison without parole sentence in the Oxford High shooting.

www.detroitnews.com

The fourth and final day of the hearing to determine whether the Oxford shooter is eligible to be sentenced to life in prison without parole is set to begin Friday morning with a rebuttal witness from prosecutor who is expected to argue that the shooter was not mentally ill.

Dr. Lisa Anacker, who did the psychological examination for prosecutors on Ethan Crumbley, will testify Friday morning, the last witness Oakland County Circuit Court Judge Kwame Rowe will hear testimony from before he makes his decision on whether the teen shooter qualifies for life without parole for killing four of his classmates at Oxford High School in November 2021 and injuring six others and a teacher.

Anacker did not testify during the initial phase of Oakland County prosecutors’ case. She is being called as a rebuttal witness after the shooter’s attorneys had a doctor who performed dozens of tests on the shooter testify...

Looking forward to this testimony as we have never been privy to the psych evaluation done early in the case.

 

[MrsWatson]

Michigan judge to hear final day of testimony before sentencing school shooter

A fourth and final day of testimony is expected in Michigan where a judge must decide whether a school shooter gets a life prison sentence or a chance for freedom some day.

apnews.com

An immediate decision is not expected. Prosecutors are planning to counter claims made by a psychologist who said Ethan Crumbley was like a “feral child” and mentally ill when he attacked students and staff at Oxford High School.

 

[BetteDavisEyes]

Live stream: Final day of Oxford shooter’s Miller hearing before judge decides sentence

Testimony wrapped up Friday during the final day of the Oxford shooter’s Miller hearing, which was required before the shooter could be sentenced.

www.clickondetroit.com

PONTIAC, Mich. – The last day of the Oxford shooter’s Miller hearing is set for Friday, where a judge will hear final testimony before deciding how to sentence the shooter accused of murdering four students. The judge isn’t expected to make an immediate decision.

The Oxford High School shooter is facing a sentence of life in prison without the chance for parole after being convicted of first-degree murder, terrorism, and more. But because the shooter is a minor, he can’t automatically be sentenced to life without parole. Instead, a Miller hearing must first be held, in which a judge considers certain factors before deciding on a sentence.

You can watch the hearing live at 9 a.m. on Friday, Aug. 18 in the video player up above.

Note: The shooter will be visible on the stream throughout the hearing. If you’d rather not see him, stay with us as we’ll cover any major updates...

 

[BetteDavisEyes]

Oxford shooter's hearing concludes; judge to decide if he can get parole in Sept.

Testifying as part of a hearing to determine if Ethan Crumbley should spend life in prison, Dr. Lisa Anacker didn't meet clinical criteria for psychosis.

www.detroitnews.com

Pontiac — The final day of a hearing to determine if it's fair to sentence a teen who fatally shot four students at Oxford High School in 2021 to life in prison without parole resumes Friday morning with only one witness left to testify before an Oakland County Circuit Court judge makes his decision.

The witness, Dr. Lisa Anacker, did the psychological examination for prosecutors on shooter Ethan Crumbley. She did not testify when prosecutors presented their case initially, but is being called as a rebuttal witness after the shooter's attorneys had a doctor who performed dozens of tests on the shooter testify.

She is expected to argue that the teen was not mentally ill...

 

[BetteDavisEyes]

Parents of slain Oxford students still want answers after Miller hearing

One father said the hearings to determine whether the shooter should receive a sentence of life without parole were "a waste of time."

www.detroitnews.com

Buck Myre spent three days in court looking for the truth, waiting on any new information, on how a student gunman could walk into Oxford High School and massacre four students, including his son, Tate.

What Myre found was an endless account of missed opportunities and systemic failures. He learned the teen gunman sat in the school counseling office and wanted to be stopped, hoping the police would unzip the school backpack that contained the gun he would later use to kill the four students and injure seven others.

The intervention never happened. Instead, Tate Myre, 16; Madisyn Baldwin, 17; Hana St. Juliana, 14; and Justin Shilling, 17, are dead...

 

[BetteDavisEyes]

Live stream: Final day of Oxford shooter’s Miller hearing before judge decides sentence

Testimony wrapped up Friday during the final day of the Oxford shooter’s Miller hearing, which was required before the shooter could be sentenced.

www.clickondetroit.com

 

[texaslb218]

Parents of slain Oxford students still want answers after Miller hearing

One father said the hearings to determine whether the shooter should receive a sentence of life without parole were "a waste of time."

www.detroitnews.com

Buck Myre spent three days in court looking for the truth, waiting on any new information, on how a student gunman could walk into Oxford High School and massacre four students, including his son, Tate.

What Myre found was an endless account of missed opportunities and systemic failures. He learned the teen gunman sat in the school counseling office and wanted to be stopped, hoping the police would unzip the school backpack that contained the gun he would later use to kill the four students and injure seven others.

The intervention never happened. Instead, Tate Myre, 16; Madisyn Baldwin, 17; Hana St. Juliana, 14; and Justin Shilling, 17, are dead...

Absolutely failure of school staff to have not searched backpack. They had reasonable suspicion. IMO

 

[Megnut]

Absolutely failure of school staff to have not searched backpack. They had reasonable suspicion. IMO

And utterly derelict and irresponsible of the parents not to divulge access to and practice with a firearm.

JMO

 

[ilovewings]

Live stream: Final day of Oxford shooter’s Miller hearing before judge decides sentence

Testimony wrapped up Friday during the final day of the Oxford shooter’s Miller hearing, which was required before the shooter could be sentenced.

www.clickondetroit.com

The defense is working very hard to suggest to this witness that the defendant was psychotic when he killed 4 and injured 7 students. The witness continues to maintain Ethan Crumbley was not psychotic when he committed this crime.

 

[BetteDavisEyes]

The defense is working very hard to suggest to this witness that the defendant was psychotic when he killed 4 and injured 7 students. The witness continues to maintain Ethan Crumbley was not psychotic when he committed this crime.

Dr. Anacker is holding her own and not getting flustered by the intensity of cross. Defense wants Ethan to be deemed mentally ill so the Judge won't impose a long sentence or life without possibility of parole.

 

[Megnut]

Can Dark Triad be diagnosed early? I wish they'd make a clearer distinction between psychosis and just plain dark personality disorders. Not mental illness per se, not a break with reality, just a twisted code of personal conduct.

That's the frightening reality IMO. That someone can be sane, know right from wrong and simply not care.

JMO

 

[ilovewings]

Dr. Anacker is holding her own and not getting flustered by the intensity of cross. Defense wants Ethan to be deemed mentally ill so the Judge won't impose a long sentence or life without possibility of parole.

Yes, the doctor held up very well under cross examination. I like when she described the planning that went into the shooting v. an impulsive act (which this was not)- as an indicator that Ethan Crumbley was not psychotic when he committed the crime.

 

[Sundog]

I wasn't able to listen to the prosecution's witness this morning, except for the last 15 minutes or so. I see that she doesn't support the diagnosis that EC is suffering from psychosis, but what is her diagnosis of him? Is she saying that he suffers from depression? That's all that I could figure out from the very short amount of her testimony that I heard. Also, did she address the key issue of the Miller hearing, i.e. if the diagnosis is that the juvenile can be rehabilitated or not? That is, after all, what the Miller hearing is about, not whether or not his diagnosis is "psychosis" or something else.

Also, did she talk about the medication he is taking, and what the medication targets? Depression? Other mental health issues?

Thanks for any info you can provide. I guess a lot of it will be covered in the closing arguments of the defense and prosecution in 15 minutes when they return from break.

 

[ilovewings]

Can Dark Triad be diagnosed early? I wish they'd make a clearer distinction between psychosis and just plain dark personality disorders. Not mental illness per se, not a break with reality, just a twisted code of personal conduct.

That's the frightening reality IMO. That someone can be sane, know right from wrong and simply not care.

JMO

IMO he is someone that is sane, knows right from wrong and as you stated " can simply not care"- Before the shooting he stated he knew he would go to prison and expected to be there for life- but of course, now he doesn't want to be there for life so he has attorneys trying to mitigate that type of sentence with the idea he is psychotic and I presume they will argue he can be rehabilitated. I think the prosecutor's closing argument was powerful---but I believe Ethan will not get LWOP.

 

[texaslb218]

I wasn't able to listen to the prosecution's witness this morning, except for the last 15 minutes or so. I see that she doesn't support the diagnosis that EC is suffering from psychosis, but what is her diagnosis of him? Is she saying that he suffers from depression? That's all that I could figure out from the very short amount of her testimony that I heard. Also, did she address the key issue of the Miller hearing, i.e. if the diagnosis is that the juvenile can be rehabilitated or not? That is, after all, what the Miller hearing is about, not whether or not his diagnosis is "psychosis" or something else.

Also, did she talk about the medication he is taking, and what the medication targets? Depression? Other mental health issues?

Thanks for any info you can provide. I guess a lot of it will be covered in the closing arguments of the defense and prosecution in 15 minutes when they return from break.

I posted before he was not taking his meds because he didn't like how they made him feel. I can't remember the post I read about this so I am putting IMO on this reply.

 

[BetteDavisEyes]

Both closing arguments were passionate but not particularly persuasive. I doubt that this Judge will sentence Ethan to LWOP, but I hope that he imposes a stiff sentence of 40-50 years. JMO