GUILTY MI - 4 students killed, 6 injured, Oxford High School shooting, 30 Nov 2021 *Arrest incl parents* *teen guilty* #5

[Izzylizzy]

I'm generally not this cynical, but I find it hard to believe that the defense attorney's apparent "incompetence" is sincere and seems more like acting for the jury.

Edit--

Also, from what I have seen so far, it doesn't seem all that different from when she defended Larry Nasser. Indignant, whiney, etc.

OMG!
Larry Nasser.
I didn't follow that case only his sentencing and Judge Nef (sp).
Is Smith a public defender/court appointed meaning who paid for Nassar and now Crumbley's defense by her?

 

[Megnut]

OMG!
Larry Nasser.
I didn't follow that case only his sentencing and Judge Nef (sp).
Is Smith a public defender/court appointed meaning who paid for Nassar and now Crumbley's defense by her?

She's retained by Mrs. Crumbley. Privately hired I do believe.
Jmo

 

[Izzylizzy]

She's retained by Mrs. Crumbley. Privately hired I do believe.
Jmo

Thank you.

 

[Izzylizzy]

Lots in this article but this text really stood out.
WTF?

March 19, 2021, Jennifer Crumbley to James Crumbley, starting at 9:37 a.m.:

• You awake? ... Ethan awake?"
• James: "Um yeah"
• Jennifer: "How is he?"
• James: "He woke up looking like he had WAY too much to drink last night complaining about a headache"
• Jennifer: "Well he was really worked up and out of control so I can see why."
• James, 10:17 a.m.: "He said let me ask you a question. Why am I in your guys' room lol"
• Jennifer: "OMG"
• James: "I totally thought you were giving him a Xanax last night"
• Jennifer: "Does he seem better? No melatonin"
• James: "I know"
• Jennifer: "But he hasn't had one before. Should only give him half"
• James: "He is just doing his school. Says his head hurts. He took so Tylenol"
• Jennifer: "Is he ok to work?"
• James: "Yeah"
• Jennifer: "Does he remember what he did?"
• James: "Dude I am working. On a demo right now. I have not talked to him and he is doing school"

March 20, 2021, Shooter to mom:

Day 2 recap: Messages show Crumbley parents rode horses while son texted about demons

Day One featured angry lawyers as witnesses described the shooting and the gun purchased days before the Oxford High School massacre.

www.freep.com

 

[Cool Cats]

OMG!
Larry Nasser.
I didn't follow that case only his sentencing and Judge Nef (sp).
Is Smith a public defender/court appointed meaning who paid for Nassar and now Crumbley's defense by her?

The Crumbleys were found indigent and were appointed their attorneys by the judge. Many private practice attorneys do this. My understanding of it.

Retainer fees can range from $30,000 to six figures when it comes to hiring just one defense attorney, especially in a murder trial.

Judge Appoints Independent Attorneys for Parents of Accused High School Shooter, Cites Possibility of 'Incompatible' Defenses

A Michigan circuit court judge on Tuesday said she was appointing independent counsel to watch over the legal interests of James Crumbley and Jennifer Crumbley, the parents of alleged high school murderer Ethan Crumbley.

lawandcrime.com

 

[Izzylizzy]

Jennifer Crumbley’s convicted killer ‘best friend’ is kicked out of school shooting trial

Megan Imirowicz called Ms Crumbley her ‘best friend’ after the pair spent time together in the same Michigan prison

news.yahoo.com

​

Great catch, thanks.
I was trying to figure out this relationship.
It was her son who was EC's best buddy who got sent away?
Going to read it now,

 

[Izzylizzy]

The Crumbleys were found indigent and were appointed their attorneys by the judge. Many private practice attorneys do this.

Judge Appoints Independent Attorneys for Parents of Accused High School Shooter, Cites Possibility of 'Incompatible' Defenses

A Michigan circuit court judge on Tuesday said she was appointing independent counsel to watch over the legal interests of James Crumbley and Jennifer Crumbley, the parents of alleged high school murderer Ethan Crumbley.

lawandcrime.com

Thank you and will read after the prison BFF piece.

 

[Cool Cats]

Thank you and will read after the prison BFF piece.

I edited to say this is my understanding of it.

Retainer fees can range from $30,000 to six figures when it comes to hiring just one defense attorney, especially in a murder trial.

The Crumbley's couldn't raise bail by putting up real estate, if they had financial resources they would have gone to bail, it seems to me.

Instead, both sit in jail for over 2 years with no bail $ for even one of them.

 

[Izzylizzy]

Jennifer Crumbley’s convicted killer ‘best friend’ is kicked out of school shooting trial

Megan Imirowicz called Ms Crumbley her ‘best friend’ after the pair spent time together in the same Michigan prison

news.yahoo.com

​

I was wondering if she would be called as a witness and got my answer.
And a lot more then I could ever imagine.
Thanks again.

Scary thought for Crumbley if her attorney Smith is being honest here.

"Mr Keast said he was talking about Imirowicz. Shannon Smith, the defence attorney, said, “I don’t even know who Megan Imirowicz is,” while looking around the courtroom".

 

[Izzylizzy]

I edited to say this is my understanding of it.

Retainer fees can range from $30,000 to six figures when it comes to hiring just one defense attorney, especially in a murder trial.

The Crumbley's couldn't raise bail by putting up real estate, if they had financial resources they would have gone to bail, it seems to me.

Instead, both sit in jail for over 2 years with no bail $ for even one of them.

I remember when they couldn't get their bail reduced from like half a million each.

Curious if they sold their house or is it sitting there or foreclosed?

 

[Izzylizzy]

Jennifer Crumbley’s convicted killer ‘best friend’ is kicked out of school shooting trial

Megan Imirowicz called Ms Crumbley her ‘best friend’ after the pair spent time together in the same Michigan prison

news.yahoo.com

​

I remember her because of the hair appointment part but never followed up.
500 days for killing your father..Oy Vey!

Michigan woman who killed her father ‘best friends’ with Ethan Crumbley’s mother

Imirowicz’s sentence was reduced after she was convicted of killing her father using lye and water

www.the-independent.com

 

[Weki]

I have to agree the judge is not doing a good job controlling the courtroom. She’s way too “nice” to defense counsel. Too soft spoken and not commanding enough. Also rambles and doesn’t get to the point. And explains herself unnecessarily.

She tried to act like everyone was emotional today at the end of the day when it was just defense counsel. Prosecutor MacDonald had to correct the record saying that “if we’re arguing it doesn’t mean we’re all being emotional or inappropriate” something to that effect. I like that she made clear that SHE was not being emotional. So far the defense is the only emotional wreck.

Instead of just admonishing defense for making that inappropriate comment, the judge tried to make a big scene out of the whole thing and tried to say EVERYONE is emotional. ‘Everyone go home and calm down.’

It was just so out of touch with the moment. JMO

 

[Izzylizzy]

The Crumbleys were found indigent and were appointed their attorneys by the judge. Many private practice attorneys do this. My understanding of it.

Retainer fees can range from $30,000 to six figures when it comes to hiring just one defense attorney, especially in a murder trial.

Judge Appoints Independent Attorneys for Parents of Accused High School Shooter, Cites Possibility of 'Incompatible' Defenses

A Michigan circuit court judge on Tuesday said she was appointing independent counsel to watch over the legal interests of James Crumbley and Jennifer Crumbley, the parents of alleged high school murderer Ethan Crumbley.

lawandcrime.com

Does waiving "conflict of interest" mean no appeals by the Crumbleys?

"Both of the parents are represented by Shannon Smith and Mariell Lehman, both of whom practice law at the same law firm.

The parents have vociferously indicated in multiple lower court proceedings that they were waiving any potential conflicts of interest which might arise from the joint representation. Attorneys Smith and Lehman said they believed they could handle the proceedings without conflict requiring separate counsel."

 

[Izzylizzy]

I have to agree the judge is not doing a good job controlling the courtroom. She’s way too “nice” to defense counsel. Too soft spoken and not commanding enough. Also rambles and doesn’t get to the point. And explains herself unnecessarily.

She tried to act like everyone was emotional today at the end of the day when it was just defense counsel. Prosecutor MacDonald had to correct the record saying that “if we’re arguing it doesn’t mean we’re all being emotional or inappropriate” something to that effect. I like that she made clear that SHE was not being emotional. So far the defense is the only emotional wreck.

Instead of just admonishing defense for making that inappropriate comment, the judge tried to make a big scene out of the whole thing and tried to say EVERYONE is emotional. ‘Everyone go home and calm down.’

It was just so out of touch with the moment. JMO

Here we go.
Well worth the read everyone.
Judge Matthews's courtroom.

'Jokes in courtroom'​

'The judge said Smith is the one who asked for it to be admitted. She tried to wrap up the conversation, but McDonald said they had “a couple more things” they wanted to address.

“One thing I think is important: I ask this court to instruct counsel to show the appropriate decorum in this particular case,” Keast said. “The jokes, indicating, ‘I’m going to kill myself’ in the joking manner. ‘I’m drinking five bottles of wine.’”

“It’s just, there are parents who had their children murdered in this courtroom,” McDonald said. “We are the people who communicate with them after we leave here.”

The jokes the prosecutors are referencing were made by Smith during Friday’s proceedings.

At one point, Matthews stopped Smith during cross examination and asked her to disassemble a tall stack of papers before it falls over, calling it the “Leaning Tower of Pisa.”

The judge told Smith she doesn’t want her to have to spend the whole weekend re-organizing all her documents, saying she should instead drink a glass of wine in her sweatpants.

“I’m going to drink five bottles of wine,” Smith joked.

Later in the cross examination, Smith was in the middle of a line of questioning, but confusion and logistical issues kept coming up, as her pieces of evidence were not in order. She also needed to show a redacted piece of evidence that could only be shown by the prosecution. So Keast clicked through some of the messages for her.

At one point, Smith said, “I’m going to kill myself,” and asked for a few minutes to get her exhibits organized. She was clearly frustrated that the disorganization of the exhibits was keeping her from making her point.'

Argument escalates​

cont:

Jennifer Crumbley trial: 2 sides get into shouting match about jokes in courtroom, evidence

Tempers flared at the end of the second day of Jennifer Crumbley’s trial, as the defense and prosecutors got into a shouting match about jokes in the courtroom and the “parading” of evidence.

www.clickondetroit.com

 

[Cool Cats]

I remember when they couldn't get their bail reduced from like half a million each.

Curious if they sold their house or is it sitting there or foreclosed?

Michigan school shooting: Who are the Crumbleys? Court records, social media posts give clues

Curiosity about the couple grew even greater on Friday when they became the target of a fugitives’ search and a $10,000 reward by the U.S. Marshals Service after they stopped responding to at…

www.mercurynews.com

Land Contract: What It Is & How It Works

For the buyer, a land contract is an alternative to getting a mortgage or paying cash to buy a home. For the owner, it’s a way to sell property a bank may not want to finance. It can also be a way for a seller to expand the pool of potential buyers to include people who might not qualify for a tradi

www.forbes.com

They never were put on the deed to their house because they were on a land contract they never completed. The seller holds the legal title until the buyer pays off the property.

Oakland County property records show the Crumbleys purchased their Oxford home for $70,000 through a land contract in 2015. The price was raised to $72,000 in a second land contract agreement the parties signed in 2018.

 

[Izzylizzy]

I have to agree the judge is not doing a good job controlling the courtroom. She’s way too “nice” to defense counsel. Too soft spoken and not commanding enough. Also rambles and doesn’t get to the point. And explains herself unnecessarily.

She tried to act like everyone was emotional today at the end of the day when it was just defense counsel. Prosecutor MacDonald had to correct the record saying that “if we’re arguing it doesn’t mean we’re all being emotional or inappropriate” something to that effect. I like that she made clear that SHE was not being emotional. So far the defense is the only emotional wreck.

Instead of just admonishing defense for making that inappropriate comment, the judge tried to make a big scene out of the whole thing and tried to say EVERYONE is emotional. ‘Everyone go home and calm down.’

It was just so out of touch with the moment. JMO

I had no intention of going there, but what the hell.
The way Judge Matthews looks at Shannon Smith I would say she's smitten.
I caught a few of her facial reactions to Smith as Smith was talking which raised my eyebrows a bit only because she's the judge.
Anyone else?

 

[Izzylizzy]

Michigan school shooting: Who are the Crumbleys? Court records, social media posts give clues

Curiosity about the couple grew even greater on Friday when they became the target of a fugitives’ search and a $10,000 reward by the U.S. Marshals Service after they stopped responding to at…

www.mercurynews.com

Land Contract: What It Is & How It Works

For the buyer, a land contract is an alternative to getting a mortgage or paying cash to buy a home. For the owner, it’s a way to sell property a bank may not want to finance. It can also be a way for a seller to expand the pool of potential buyers to include people who might not qualify for a tradi

www.forbes.com

They never were put on the deed to their house because they were on a land contract they never completed. The seller holds the legal title until the buyer pays off the property.

Oakland County property records show the Crumbleys purchased their Oxford home for $70,000 through a land contract in 2015. The price was raised to $72,000 in a second land contract agreement the parties signed in 2018.

You're on a roll..thank you!

 

[Luna20]

I think the guns not being secured/locked away will not hurt the parents as much because it was clear that EC knew how to handle the guns so there was no risk of him accidentally killing anyone. That issue would be a factor if EC was 5 yo and accidentally shoots and kills someone. THEN the parents become culpable/negligent for not securing the gun. But this wasn’t an accidental shooting.

I’ve listened to hearings and arguments leading up to this trial and it’s gonna be a steep incline to a conviction if at all. The parents have been in jail this entire time (by their own fault since they tried to flee) and dragged through the mud deservedly imo. But are they criminally guilty? Idk

JMO

The issue of being criminally responsible may lie in the statement that Jennifer coined “just don’t get caught”.

 

[IAMWAN]

DBM

Great catch, thanks.
I was trying to figure out this relationship.
It was her son who was EC's best buddy who got sent away?
Going to read it now,

No, this is someone who she apparently met in prison.

 

[wyome]

Lots in this article but this text really stood out.
WTF?

March 19, 2021, Jennifer Crumbley to James Crumbley, starting at 9:37 a.m.:

• You awake? ... Ethan awake?"
• James: "Um yeah"
• Jennifer: "How is he?"
• James: "He woke up looking like he had WAY too much to drink last night complaining about a headache"
• Jennifer: "Well he was really worked up and out of control so I can see why."
• James, 10:17 a.m.: "He said let me ask you a question. Why am I in your guys' room lol"
• Jennifer: "OMG"
• James: "I totally thought you were giving him a Xanax last night"
• Jennifer: "Does he seem better? No melatonin"
• James: "I know"
• Jennifer: "But he hasn't had one before. Should only give him half"
• James: "He is just doing his school. Says his head hurts. He took so Tylenol"
• Jennifer: "Is he ok to work?"
• James: "Yeah"
• Jennifer: "Does he remember what he did?"
• James: "Dude I am working. On a demo right now. I have not talked to him and he is doing school"

March 20, 2021, Shooter to mom:

Day 2 recap: Messages show Crumbley parents rode horses while son texted about demons

Day One featured angry lawyers as witnesses described the shooting and the gun purchased days before the Oxford High School massacre.

www.freep.com

Jennifer asking "Does he remember what he did?" is damning.
I'm not sure what a teenager could do that he wouldn't remember. Would psychosis or other mental snap do this? Erase memory of an event?

Where did Ethan work?

"Doing school"...never heard that term. I'm assuming he's doing school work or homework?

This James sounds like a piece of work. Apparently there was an out of control evening, and his son wakes up with no memory and a severe headache, and when asked if he's okay or does he remember what he did, the dad gets pissed and says he's busy and hasn't talked to him.