Michelle Young, pregnant mom, murdered Part 15.

[Utopia]

Jilly & RC,

If innocent, it makes sense that he would call her to tell her about a change in plans, I would certainly expect my husband to do that if I was expecting him back the next day and he was going to stay away an extra night to visit his parents, especially if we were expecting company - not unreasonable, though certainly not a matter of "permission". Then again, we don't have children and I'm not pregnant. However, if premeditated murder is involved, the side trip was likely part of the plan all along and the phone call a ruse as Jilly suggests. On the other hand, as RC points out, premeditation can be months in advance or a few minutes.

Yes....got ya on the rumors. I will also confess that I may be selective on what I want to believe too because my gut tells me this guy did it.

It would be interesting to know if JY made a habit of calling her when he was out of town. I have read that he used to get ticked off at her when she called him. If he did, I would think he'd call at a time when Cassidy was awake to talk to her (like many dads I know do). If he only went to Hillsville then I don't see the point really of calling to say "hi Honey, I made it" when he'd just seen her a couple of hours before - especially at 11:00 at nite. So, if he did call her, imo there was an ulterior motive.

 

[liveoutloud]

Hi!
Long time sporadic lurker. Question for anyone who might know. There has been a lot of talk, argument, whatever, by posters on CTV about what time the Youngs left Brevard for Raleigh on the 3rd of November. Does anyone know this information? Even if only from a credible inside source. Thanks.

 

[raisincharlie]

Jilly & RC,

If innocent, it makes sense that he would call her to tell her about a change in plans, I would certainly expect my husband to do that if I was expecting him back the next day and he was going to stay away an extra night to visit his parents, especially if we were expecting company - not unreasonable, though certainly not a matter of "permission". Then again, we don't have children and I'm not pregnant. However, if premeditated murder is involved, the side trip was likely part of the plan all along and the phone call a ruse as Jilly suggests. On the other hand, as RC points out, premeditation can be months in advance or a few minutes.

Does it make sense for him to make the arrangement to go to his parents house before he asks his wife if she is comfortable babysitting his friends that are coming from out of town ? Does it make sense for him at all to even go to his parents house with his friends coming into town ? Seems pretty rude to the friend and even rude to the wife to expect her to babysit the friend that is his friend - at least in my book.

 

[raisincharlie]

Hi!
Long time sporadic lurker. Question for anyone who might know. There has been a lot of talk, argument, whatever, by posters on CTV about what time the Youngs left Brevard for Raleigh on the 3rd of November. Does anyone know this information? Even if only from a credible inside source. Thanks.

That time really varies as the insiders say he arrived at Merediths anywhere between 9 pm and 1130 pm.

9pm would mean they left Brevard no later than 4 pm
1130 pm would mean they left Brevard no later than 630 pm.

Not really an answer but its the best I can give you and based strictly on rumor. The only thing we know for sure from a search warrant is the SUV was being detained and Major Johnson arrived to look at the SUV somewhere just after or near midnight on 4 November.

 

[liveoutloud]

That time really varies as the insiders say he arrived at Merediths anywhere between 9 pm and 1130 pm.

9pm would mean they left Brevard no later than 4 pm
1130 pm would mean they left Brevard no later than 630 pm.

Not really an answer but its the best I can give you and based strictly on rumor. The only thing we know for sure from a search warrant is the SUV was being detained and Major Johnson arrived to look at the SUV somewhere just after or near midnight on 4 November.

Thanks Raisin C.

That leaves me with another question. How do we know that Major Johnson arrived near or just after midnight on the 4th. Thanks again!

 

[raisincharlie]

Thanks Raisin C.

That leaves me with another question. How do we know that Major Johnson arrived near or just after midnight on the 4th. Thanks again!

The 11/4 search warrant for the SUV, under the probable cause section indicates that the vehicle was being detained and that Major Johnson "arrived on 11/4 at the residence in Fuguay-Varina' at which time he inspected the SUV. Based on his observation of the vehicle Inspector Lilyquist prepared the probable cause sections and found a Magistrate to sign the request for the warrant at 0315 am on 11/4

Don't know how much time the major spent looking at the SUV or how long it took the other fellow to complete the paper work and find a magistrate to wake up so the window could be larger.

 

[Kadie]

Any one have any thoughts on who is dkjack at CTV?
People are calling him/her "John" when they reply!

Haven't lurked over there since lunchtime today so no idea if anything new is being "reported."

Do we think the March 31st date for the arrest is correct??

 

[Kadie]

The 11/4 search warrant for the SUV, under the probable cause section indicates that the vehicle was being detained and that Major Johnson "arrived on 11/4 at the residence in Fuguay-Varina' at which time he inspected the SUV. Based on his observation of the vehicle Inspector Lilyquist prepared the probable cause sections and found a Magistrate to sign the request for the warrant at 0315 am on 11/4

Don't know how much time the major spent looking at the SUV or how long it took the other fellow to complete the paper work and find a magistrate to wake up so the window could be larger.

RC.......you are just too smart!!

Do you think the therapist's notes implicated someone else? (hitman/mistress) Or do you think LE is tying up loose ends to have an airtight case to bring to the GJ?? Love to hear your thoughts!

 

[raisincharlie]

RC.......you are just too smart!!

Do you think the therapist's notes implicated someone else? (hitman/mistress) Or do you think LE is tying up loose ends to have an airtight case to bring to the GJ?? Love to hear your thoughts!

Kadie,

The therapist's notes are interesting, my mind wants to think one thing but logic dictates the notes could reveal a number of things. First I think Michelle was most likely a very bright young lady and I don't think much was lost on her.

My gut instinct is the notes don't come right out and say that one individual is the murderer however I do think the notes will give direction to an individual. I don't think they will reveal anything relating to a hitman. I think there will be something pointing to knowledge of a mistress or mistresses, I don't for a second buy that JY had but one affair nor do I buy that Michelle was oblivious to it.

Not knowing the time frame involved, other than it was shortly before her death that Michelle started seeing the therapist I have a feeling that Michelle was verbally and mentally abused for a while. I have this feeling it also escalated to at least one event, if not more, of physical abuse within her marriage within months of her death and at the hands of JY. I am led to believe that because of the short duration of meetings that Michelle could have had with this therapist and the ruling of the judge indicating the notes were relevant to the investigation. I could be very far off base but this is my thought process.

 

[Utopia]

Does it make sense for him to make the arrangement to go to his parents house before he asks his wife if she is comfortable babysitting his friends that are coming from out of town ? Does it make sense for him at all to even go to his parents house with his friends coming into town ? Seems pretty rude to the friend and even rude to the wife to expect her to babysit the friend that is his friend - at least in my book.

Nope, Nope and Nope, doesn't make sense and would be very rude and inconsiderate. I was probably being too subtle in my post and maybe not clear. The "not unreasonable" referred to the expectation of a phone call if plans changed and not to the expectation that she wouldn't mind. I certainly would, particularly leaving me alone to entertain his friends - but like you, my husband wouldn't do that. However, because I think he's guilty, I don't think that is what happened. As Jilly suggested he called to make sure MY was alone and likely didn't even mention a change in plans but made some other excuse for the call - suggesting premeditation.

Utopia

 

[liveoutloud]

The 11/4 search warrant for the SUV, under the probable cause section indicates that the vehicle was being detained and that Major Johnson "arrived on 11/4 at the residence in Fuguay-Varina' at which time he inspected the SUV. Based on his observation of the vehicle Inspector Lilyquist prepared the probable cause sections and found a Magistrate to sign the request for the warrant at 0315 am on 11/4

Don't know how much time the major spent looking at the SUV or how long it took the other fellow to complete the paper work and find a magistrate to wake up so the window could be larger.

Ok. I know I a pain, but here goes. How long could LE "detain" JY's vehicle without that warrant if you know? Thanks.

 

[raisincharlie]

Ok. I know I a pain, but here goes. How long could LE "detain" JY's vehicle without that warrant if you know? Thanks.

Pending a murder investigation. What we know LE knew very quickly was that JY was supposed to be out of town and that he called his sister in law to retrieve a document. In the 911 call we hear Meredith indicate it was a fluke that she came by, LE would have been aware of anything Meredith told them before JY returned. Standard procedure for LE is to start with those closest and work out. LE had no proof JY was anywhere in particular when Michelle was murdered. Perhaps JY's refusal to speak with LE from the get go raised suspicion, perhaps the droplets that appeared similar to blood on the SUV also raised suspicion. How long, until a judge refused to issue the warrant.

SOP is the best answer.

Not a pain at all !

 

[Kadie]

RC,

I agree with you. I think the months before her murder, MY was emotionally/mentally abused.....possibly physically as well. Someone posted (either here or CTV) that maybe some type of comment was made by JY like......"you leave me and take CY with you.....you're dead" or "if you file for divorce, I'll kill you" then maybe some type of FLUKE accident happened which made MY suspicious that JY was serious when making those type of statements. I don't know...maybe I am way off base. But for some reason, I think something happened in the months before the murder that made her see a therapist. It could of been as simple as she found out about MM...just rambling I guess!
I don't post a lot but sure enjoy everyone's posts over here!

Kadie

 

[liveoutloud]

Pending a murder investigation. What we know LE knew very quickly was that JY was supposed to be out of town and that he called his sister in law to retrieve a document. In the 911 call we hear Meredith indicate it was a fluke that she came by, LE would have been aware of anything Meredith told them before JY returned. Standard procedure for LE is to start with those closest and work out. LE had no proof JY was anywhere in particular when Michelle was murdered. Perhaps JY's refusal to speak with LE from the get go raised suspicion, perhaps the droplets that appeared similar to blood on the SUV also raised suspicion. How long, until a judge refused to issue the warrant.

SOP is the best answer.

Not a pain at all !

Thanks Raisin!

So, they could have detained his vehicle from 9pm or so until the warrant was obtained aroudn 3 am or so? If they had to I mean. In all probability this window of time is smaller? I'm curious (probably should have stated this up front) about the time JY spent in Brevard after being notified about his wife's death? To me, waiting around spells COG. Also, do you recall if there was more than one vehicle in this family caravan? Or just JY's vehicle? Thanks again!

 

[raisincharlie]

Thanks Raisin!

So, they could have detained his vehicle from 9pm or so until the warrant was obtained aroudn 3 am or so? If they had to I mean. In all probability this window of time is smaller? I'm curious (probably should have stated this up front) about the time JY spent in Brevard after being notified about his wife's death? To me, waiting around spells COG. Also, do you recall if there was more than one vehicle in this family caravan? Or just JY's vehicle? Thanks again!

Liveoutloud,

I would think that LE would have to provide a rather rapid response, in other words they can't just detain it for fun - they have to show response. I would think it highly unlikely that the vehicle would have been detained 3 or 4 hours before an investigator would arrive to view it. There are certain obligations.

Given the circumstances, I don't really think there was any real waiting around in Brevard. I do think that JY's Mum, Sis, and brother in law needed time to pack for the return to Raleigh and given his rumored arrival time in Brevard (around 3 pm) I could see it taking a couple of hours for the family to collect themselves, pack and prepare to leave. i believe they would have also had to stop to refuel the vehicle somewhere along the way - pit stops if you will. The other reason I don't think there was a lot of waiting around in Brevard is that JY's Mum would have been very concerned about Cassidy and getting to her as quickly as possible. One other thing - we do know that JY's laptop was still in the Explorer as it was taken under warrant - this leds me to believe he never got the chance to unpack the Explorer from his trip to Va. Just my line of thought on this though.

From what I understand - there was just the Explorer and they all rode together. The Step father arrived on saturday I believe.

By the way - I like your nic - sounds like sage advice - live out loud .

 

[jilly]

The 11/4 search warrant for the SUV, under the probable cause section indicates that the vehicle was being detained and that Major Johnson "arrived on 11/4 at the residence in Fuguay-Varina' at which time he inspected the SUV. Based on his observation of the vehicle Inspector Lilyquist prepared the probable cause sections and found a Magistrate to sign the request for the warrant at 0315 am on 11/4

Don't know how much time the major spent looking at the SUV or how long it took the other fellow to complete the paper work and find a magistrate to wake up so the window could be larger.

Glad you brought up that 0315 time. I'm thinking that the Youngs' must have got there maybe even later than 9:30pm. I don't think it's going to take 6 hrs to find a magistrate. I was a Court Clerk back in my younger days and all these Magistrates were on call - the cops had a list.

If they did arrive later seems to me they had already retained Smith?

RC wasn't there something about Major Johnson arriving there at midnite? Your memory is better than mine!! Trying to figure out how this all went down. If we believe gojo he said as the Youngs' arrived, so did LE with bells & whistles. I guess these guys then notified Johnson that they were there?

 

[liveoutloud]

Liveoutloud,

I would think that LE would have to provide a rather rapid response, in other words they can't just detain it for fun - they have to show response. I would think it highly unlikely that the vehicle would have been detained 3 or 4 hours before an investigator would arrive to view it. There are certain obligations.

Given the circumstances, I don't really think there was any real waiting around in Brevard. I do think that JY's Mum, Sis, and brother in law needed time to pack for the return to Raleigh and given his rumored arrival time in Brevard (around 3 pm) I could see it taking a couple of hours for the family to collect themselves, pack and prepare to leave. i believe they would have also had to stop to refuel the vehicle somewhere along the way - pit stops if you will. The other reason I don't think there was a lot of waiting around in Brevard is that JY's Mum would have been very concerned about Cassidy and getting to her as quickly as possible. One other thing - we do know that JY's laptop was still in the Explorer as it was taken under warrant - this leds me to believe he never got the chance to unpack the Explorer from his trip to Va. Just my line of thought on this though.

From what I understand - there was just the Explorer and they all rode together. The Step father arrived on saturday I believe.

By the way - I like your nic - sounds like sage advice - live out loud .

Thanks Raisin

My daughter gave me the nickname a long time ago. Could be the impression I do of Queen Elizabeth singing Melissa Etheridge's "I'm the Only One." I digress. Ok so, to your knowledge then, we have a ballpark range on the arrival time in Raleigh. Next question (you thought they would stop didn't you?). I have read pages and pages here and on CTV and I cannot come to a concensus on when JY left Raleigh and if it was felt that when he did leave for that business trip that his plans were to go to Brevard afterwards. Seems like in the beginning of the case, this planned trip to Brevard was just accepted as fact. Later though, after God only knows how many "insiders" have weighed in, this fact isn't a fact either? Is that how you understand it? BTW, hello everyone! I don't mean to single out Raisin (although I admire his deductive prowess). Anyone feel free to jump right on in, pleaee! Thanks!

 

[raisincharlie]

Glad you brought up that 0315 time. I'm thinking that the Youngs' must have got there maybe even later than 9:30pm. I don't think it's going to take 6 hrs to find a magistrate. I was a Court Clerk back in my younger days and all these Magistrates were on call - the cops had a list.

If they did arrive later seems to me they had already retained Smith?

RC wasn't there something about Major Johnson arriving there at midnite? Your memory is better than mine!! Trying to figure out how this all went down. If we believe gojo he said as the Youngs' arrived, so did LE with bells & whistles. I guess these guys then notified Johnson that they were there?

Jilly,

My thought is they arrived at Meredith's between 1030 and 1130 pm. And yes I believe that Roger Smith was on board before JY left Brevard or else while JY was enroute to Raleigh - we do know he refused to speak at length with LE and did refer them to his lawyer.

I do not believe gojo about the lights and sirens - I believe there was LE at Meredith's house before JY was close to Raleigh. I say that because at that time LE most likely did not know exactly what they were dealing with - there would have been concern for the safety of both Meredith and Cassidy. Also LE would have kept Meredith segragated from others as long as possible since she found Michelle. So as far as I am concerned - gojo is nogo on that one. It is possible that other LE officials arrived after JY, most likely that is true as the SW clearly indicates Johnson arrived after the vehicle was detained and that he arrived on 11/4-remember Michelle was found at 130 pm 11/3.

One thing I noticed about the warrant was it did take until 4 am for the officer to return to Meredith's house to serve the warrant on JY. 45 minutes travel time from Raleigh to Fuguay Varina ?

 

[raisincharlie]

Thanks Raisin

My daughter gave me the nickname a long time ago. Could be the impression I do of Queen Elizabeth singing Melissa Etheridge's "I'm the Only One." I digress. Ok so, to your knowledge then, we have a ballpark range on the arrival time in Raleigh. Next question (you thought they would stop didn't you?). I have read pages and pages here and on CTV and I cannot come to a concensus on when JY left Raleigh and if it was felt that when he did leave for that business trip that his plans were to go to Brevard afterwards. Seems like in the beginning of the case, this planned trip to Brevard was just accepted as fact. Later though, after God only knows how many "insiders" have weighed in, this fact isn't a fact either? Is that how you understand it? BTW, hello everyone! I don't mean to single out Raisin (although I admire his deductive prowess). Anyone feel free to jump right on in, pleaee! Thanks!

Queen Elizabeth belting out I'm the Only One - that is quite a visual !

I can't help you much with this one. I have read that JY left at 4pm, 630pm and 8pm - no idea which one is actually the closest to the truth and have not really seen anything that would make me think one time is more correct than the others.

In the begining it was believed that the trip to Brevard was based on the fact that the meeting he was supposed to have attended was close to Brevard so a swing by to the folks would be nice. Could be true but seems to have been contradicted by a strong supporter of JY's innocence who claimed JY called his Mum at 9pm on 11/2 and arranged for the trip then. I don't know why a supporter of JY's innocence would make this claim because actually in the context of murder - it looks very bad IMO. So truth is I can't really give you a good answer for that question - sure wish I had those answers though !:crazy:

 

[strach304]

Wow! So many good thoughts here and great discussion! As long as nothing breaks soon in this case I'll try and address all the new thoughts and my comments generated by those great posts and posters. Love this group, hope I don't start to bore anyone

You guys are right about the "what if" poster, that was AE that said it which is why when I saw Scandi's post here I was :waitasec: Then 3 or 4 pages later someone like Mimi or Netbrood was saying it as "I heard" indicating it was a factual inside scoop that the rest of us weren't privey to so I thought that was what Scandi saw. Rather than traces it seems to me they might've said smears of Michelle's blood.

I too saw March of the Penguins, thought it was a kids movie like Happy Feet. :blushing:

"John" is Gojo, Netbrood, dkjack, or whatever incarnation he feels like being who is a friend of the Young family. He posted his real name there himself and seems to have a real vendetta against RPD if you know who that is. He is a poster here and there who provides useful and accurate info on the case that seems to bother some.