Michelle Young, pregnant mom, murdered Part 15.

[jake]

You're mistaken, Jake. Kimball Jane Sargent specializes in gender identity issues, not sex issues. There is a difference. Michelle seemed happy being a wife and mother. There's no evidence that she was looking to fill her needs outside her marriage, and I've heard nothing to suggest that she believed herself to be a man trapped in a woman's body, expressed any interest in knowing what it was like to be a man, or ever made any attempts to pass herself off as a man. I wonder if the same can be said for ol' Jason.

Howdy,

I really can't tell you for sure about ol' Jason, but I've seen no evidence to suggest he believed himself to be a woman trapped in a man's body, expressed any interest in knowing what it was like to be a woman, or ever tried to pass himself off as a woman.

I'm sure I would have heard something about that if ol' Jason were like that in Brevard, but I can't speak for Raleigh.

Do you think Michelle would see a therapist on behalf of someone else? I don't think so. I think she was trying to deal with a problem SHE was having, not ol' Jason, not her sister, not any of her friends. And I can't figure how this gender issue, relating only to herself, could get her killed.

So, where does that leave us? By the way, the advertising the therapist displayed also mentioned she dealt with more general issues also.

--Jake

 

[FactsareFacts]

Howdy,

I really can't tell you for sure about ol' Jason, but I've seen no evidence to suggest he believed himself to be a woman trapped in a man's body, expressed any interest in knowing what it was like to be a woman, or ever tried to pass himself off as a woman.

I'm sure I would have heard something about that if ol' Jason were like that in Brevard, but I can't speak for Raleigh.

Do you think Michelle would see a therapist on behalf of someone else? I don't think so. I think she was trying to deal with a problem SHE was having, not ol' Jason, not her sister, not any of her friends. And I can't figure how this gender issue, relating only to herself, could get her killed.

So, where does that leave us? By the way, the advertising the therapist displayed also mentioned she dealt with more general issues also.

--Jake

I think she may have been starting to get suspicious of Jason. LE is interested in her will and also her Life Insurance. They also immediately looked into the accident they had which caused her to lose the second baby. I think Michelle found out about Jason's affair and she went snooping looking for evidence and found the life insurance policy on her had recently been upped. Ironically right before the accident too. I think she confronted Jason about the affair, the accident, the will (did he change the guardian?) and her life insurance policy. Before doing that I think she went to a therapist to get some advice.

 

[Scout]

You're mistaken, Jake. Kimball Jane Sargent specializes in gender identity issues, not sex issues. There is a difference. Michelle seemed happy being a wife and mother. There's no evidence that she was looking to fill her needs outside her marriage, and I've heard nothing to suggest that she believed herself to be a man trapped in a woman's body, expressed any interest in knowing what it was like to be a man, or ever made any attempts to pass herself off as a man. I wonder if the same can be said for ol' Jason.

Howdy,

I really can't tell you for sure about ol' Jason, but I've seen no evidence to suggest he believed himself to be a woman trapped in a man's body, expressed any interest in knowing what it was like to be a woman, or ever tried to pass himself off as a woman.

I'm sure I would have heard something about that if ol' Jason were like that in Brevard, but I can't speak for Raleigh.

Do you think Michelle would see a therapist on behalf of someone else? I don't think so. I think she was trying to deal with a problem SHE was having, not ol' Jason, not her sister, not any of her friends. And I can't figure how this gender issue, relating only to herself, could get her killed.

So, where does that leave us? By the way, the advertising the therapist displayed also mentioned she dealt with more general issues also.

--Jake

You're absolutely right in that the therapist deal with more general issues. The gender identity aspect of her business may have had nothing whatsoever to do with Michelle's decision to seek her help.

As for your question: "Do you think Michelle would see a therapist on behalf of someone else?"

My answer is that Michelle could have sought help in dealing with her husband's issues and perhaps in attempting to either determine whether the marriage was salvageable or remove herself and her child(ren) from their current environment. That is definitely not seeking therapy on behalf of someone else, which, in my opinion, cannot be done. I've never heard of a therapist attempting to treat a patient by proxy.

My advice to you would be to ask around about ol' Jason a bit. You might be surprised at what you don't know.

 

[raisincharlie]

Howdy,

<snip>

Do you think Michelle would see a therapist on behalf of someone else? I don't think so. I think she was trying to deal with a problem SHE was having, not ol' Jason, not her sister, not any of her friends. And I can't figure how this gender issue, relating only to herself, could get her killed.

So, where does that leave us? By the way, the advertising the therapist displayed also mentioned she dealt with more general issues also.

--Jake

I will agree Michelle (SHE) went to see a therapist about a problem or problems she was having. The source of that problem(s) is yet to be disclosed but I still contend there are enough known facts to make a better speculation about it than thinking Michelle was having an affair. The writing is on the wall if one cares to read it IMO.

 

[strach304]

Thanks RC I know there absolutely has to be so much more that we know nothing about. I can't include a random suspect or unknown to the victim suspect after seeing that report of a therapist. Nor am I willing to give up on LE just yet. One instance of a case that I followed here was Amber Harris, where I thought LE were completely inept and would never find her killer. After waiting and watching, no forwarning at all and they got the guy!

 

[jake]

You're absolutely right in that the therapist deal with more general issues. The gender identity aspect of her business may have had nothing whatsoever to do with Michelle's decision to seek her help.

As for your question: "Do you think Michelle would see a therapist on behalf of someone else?"

My answer is that Michelle could have sought help in dealing with her husband's issues and perhaps in attempting to either determine whether the marriage was salvageable or remove herself and her child(ren) from their current environment. That is definitely not seeking therapy on behalf of someone else, which, in my opinion, cannot be done. I've never heard of a therapist attempting to treat a patient by proxy.

My advice to you would be to ask around about ol' Jason a bit. You might be surprised at what you don't know.

Howdy, Scout,

And thanks for your advice. However, I think you don't know small towns so well. We don't have to ask around about anybody....we just "hear it" without asking.

And by the way, what I have heard, without asking, is that Jason and Michelle's marriage was sound. There was no talk of divorce, only talk of the baby boy soon to be born. The furniture at Mama's? Yeah, that had to do with the new baby. The clothes hanging in Cassie's closet? Yeah, those were for the little boy. So sad.

--Jake

 

[FactsareFacts]

Howdy, Scout,

And thanks for your advice. However, I think you don't know small towns so well. We don't have to ask around about anybody....we just "hear it" without asking.

And by the way, what I have heard, without asking, is that Jason and Michelle's marriage was sound. There was no talk of divorce, only talk of the baby boy soon to be born. The furniture at Mama's? Yeah, that had to do with the new baby. The clothes hanging in Cassie's closet? Yeah, those were for the little boy. So sad.

--Jake

I think the only two people who know what goes on behind closed doors are the 2 people involved. Sadly one of them can't tell us anything because she was murdered. If the marriage was not good, there is no way he is going to admit to that now.:twocents:

 

[Samiya]

Howdy,

I'm wondering, too. The public inventory? Maybe the cops would hide some things. But I am under the impression that the cops would have to give the custodian of the house (Jason's sister) an itemized list of every item removed from the house. Maybe not.

--Jake

Hi Jake,

Can you explain to me why Jason's sister is "custodian" of the house?

Thanks
Sami

 

[Samiya]

I think that Michelle went to Kimball for 'clarity' on issues.

Jason may have slowly been 'changing' (not transgender, lol, his moods). Once that begins happening some wives and/or girlfriends get the old "nah, I'm imagining it, he's still the same, he's just bothered by something" feeling. If it becomes worse then the girls tend to start wondering "what's going on here" and as it progresses the girls become unsure but think "I must be seeing/hearing things. Nah it's just me".

remember the old DV saying....

"He was so nice...until we got married".

Just a thought or two....

Sami

 

[Scout]

Howdy, Scout,

And thanks for your advice. However, I think you don't know small towns so well. We don't have to ask around about anybody....we just "hear it" without asking.

And by the way, what I have heard, without asking, is that Jason and Michelle's marriage was sound. There was no talk of divorce, only talk of the baby boy soon to be born. The furniture at Mama's? Yeah, that had to do with the new baby. The clothes hanging in Cassie's closet? Yeah, those were for the little boy. So sad.

--Jake

I know small towns intimately, Jake. Born and raised in a town no larger than Brevard. I also know how the grapevine works and how twisted, sometimes to the point of being unrecognizable, the facts of a story can become from one end to another. I'm also aware that sometimes virtual strangers know more truths about a person than his/her loved ones do. I've heard things differently than you have. Wonder which version is closer to the truth.

I do agree with you that this case is incredibly sad.

 

[scandi]

I think that Michelle went to Kimball for 'clarity' on issues.

Jason may have slowly been 'changing' (not transgender, lol, his moods). Once that begins happening some wives and/or girlfriends get the old "nah, I'm imagining it, he's still the same, he's just bothered by something" feeling. If it becomes worse then the girls tend to start wondering "what's going on here" and as it progresses the girls become unsure but think "I must be seeing/hearing things. Nah it's just me".

remember the old DV saying....

"He was so nice...until we got married".

Just a thought or two....

Sami

Hi Sami, I take it by the DV quote then you feel she might have felt her life was in danger because of that. Not putting words in your mouth, but remember your one post so well {except for the exact wording giving the reasons that would qualify a judge to make a decision and order for a therapist to turn her notes over to the prosecutor.

 

[DEPUTYDAWG]

Scandi,

How we know that not all items are posted on an inventory is that at the end of the inventory a line must be drawn with the words "Nothing Follows" in between the line. This is required when there are no further items to prevent other items from being added to the inventory sheet. If those words do not exist at the bottom, there is more to the inventory. You will also note the inventory sheets are marked page _ of _ pages.

ETA - the 12/01/06 warrant is an example.

RC,
Good morning and welcome back! You were missed!

For Jake, etc. re inventory forms.

Just wanted to clarify that RC's post above explains a lot in very solid terms.

However, although it's a good policy/procedure - and may be an agency requirement - to do as RC stated, the "Nothing Follows" to show the inventory is complete, it isn't required legally. Yet, to NOT do that and leave the form open-ended, sometimes happens. Some officers are just better at that detail than others. I would expect experienced homicide detectives are quite thorough.

The negative of not completing the form as stated, is that it's then open to dispute later on. This could be a negative on the officer and the DA's case later, in court, so honestly, they WANT that inventory form to be complete. It can put them at a disadvantage as to getting evidence in later. So, in my experience, purposely leaving items off an inventory form is not a standard way of doing business for LE. Our agency has disciplined officers for 1) not completing and inventory form and 2) not completing an accurate form. (Adding: there could be a supplemental form, however....). JMO.

DD

 

[Samiya]

Hi Sami, I take it by the DV quote then you feel she might have felt her life was in danger because of that. Not putting words in your mouth, but remember your one post so well {except for the exact wording giving the reasons that would qualify a judge to make a decision and order for a therapist to turn her notes over to the prosecutor.

She may have, but he also may have gotten to a point where he was scaring her that much she had no idea and may have said that she was concerned about what he might do.

Maybe he raised a hand once or twice in anger?

Ya never know.

Sami

 

[raisincharlie]

She may have, but he also may have gotten to a point where he was scaring her that much she had no idea and may have said that she was concerned about what he might do.

Maybe he raised a hand once or twice in anger?

Ya never know.

Sami

Sami - I think we will eventually find out. While we don't have a large number of facts - the ones we do have, definitely point toward a dysfunction and an elevated stress level in the relationship. The above would not surprise me.

DD - thanks for clarifying in better and more measured terms. I might add, this is most likely variable from agency to agency. MHP "requires" this procedure without fail. Supplimental notes, inventory etc are noted as being in existence but not defined. I should have related the information to the agency with which I am familiar and not all in general. As we have heard, the devil is in the details.

Everyone have a great day !

 

[The Saint]

I think the only two people who know what goes on behind closed doors are the 2 people involved. Sadly one of them can't tell us anything because she was murdered. If the marriage was not good, there is no way he is going to admit to that now.:twocents:

he might not admit it now, but there are people who heard him say that he was unhappy in his marriage before the murder.

imo

 

[The Saint]

Howdy, Scout,

And thanks for your advice. However, I think you don't know small towns so well. We don't have to ask around about anybody....we just "hear it" without asking.

And by the way, what I have heard, without asking, is that Jason and Michelle's marriage was sound. There was no talk of divorce, only talk of the baby boy soon to be born. The furniture at Mama's? Yeah, that had to do with the new baby. The clothes hanging in Cassie's closet? Yeah, those were for the little boy. So sad.

--Jake

why did jason feel in a rush to get furniture from his mom that was meant
for the baby boy who still had 4 months before his was to be born?

why would jason rush to get the baby furniture on a weekend that he had friends coming to stay with him for the big homecoming football game?

wouldn't they have cassidy's crib at Birchleaf in the garage? what was the furniture? michelle had lots of friends with babies. i think that women
traditionally pass along baby clothes and furniture within their circle of friends.

why couldn't mrs young UPS the furniture if it were small enough? or send it by greyhound?

why make such a long trip on such a busy weekend?

wouldn't jason have wanted that furniture for the first baby boy who died as a result of the car accident? why wasn't it all ready down in Raleigh?
imo

 

[Barney Fife]

why did jason feel in a rush to get furniture from his mom that was meant
for the baby boy who still had 4 months before his was to be born?

why would jason rush to get the baby furniture on a weekend that he had friends coming to stay with him for the big homecoming football game?

wouldn't they have cassidy's crib at Birchleaf in the garage? what was the furniture? michelle had lots of friends with babies. i think that women
traditionally pass along baby clothes and furniture within their circle of friends.

why couldn't mrs young UPS the furniture if it were small enough? or send it by greyhound?

why make such a long trip on such a busy weekend?

wouldn't jason have wanted that furniture for the first baby boy who died as a result of the car accident? why wasn't it all ready down in Raleigh?
imo

Don't forget gojo AKA Jake told us about how this plan to visit Mama transpired. Jason left Raleigh for the 2 1/2 hour drive to Hillsville Va at 8 pm. At 9 pm, he called Mama on his cell and made last minute plans to visit Brevard, spending Friday night. Baby furniture was in Brevard for the taking. Gojo then said he called Michelle at 11 pm and got her ok for the side trip, even though his best college bud and his wife were driving over Friday evening from Charlotte to spend the weekend for Homecoming.

As your post points out, this is total BS.

 

[raisincharlie]

he might not admit it now, but there are people who heard him say that he was unhappy in his marriage before the murder.

imo

I suspect that this statement is very accurate. Have heard it uttered by others and it appears from the search warrants that Michelle also had some issues with Jason and his spending habits, at a minimum.

You raise some good questions as well.

 

[nanandjim]

I suspect that this statement is very accurate. Have heard it uttered by others and it appears from the search warrants that Michelle also had some issues with Jason and his spending habits, at a minimum...

Jason wanting to pick up used baby furniture shows that he really was a frugal guy, don't you think?

 

[raisincharlie]

Jason wanting to pick up used baby furniture shows that he really was a frugal guy, don't you think?

He may have learned that after the California vacation - let me have it :slap: