MN - George Floyd, 46, died in police custody, Minneapolis, 25 May 2020 #4 - Chauvin Trial Day 1

[Lilibet]

I watched the trial live on CNN, and they cut to retired Police Chief of Minneapolis (correct me if I am wrong about the city) who commented on this defense tactic that Chauvin was distracted by an angry crowd. He said that any sign of an angry crowd would prompt police to get the perp in the squad car and get away as quickly as possible.

You took the words out of my mouth. I was just coming here to say the same thing. If the crowd is getting angry, maaaaybe it’s because Chauvin kept kneeling on Floyd long after it was necessary and it appeared to anyone watching that Floyd could die. The crowd likely would have backed off if they’d put Floyd in the patrol car and gotten out of there. Kind of insulting the juror’s intelligence if the defense is going to use that line of reasoning for Chauvin keeping his knee on Floyd’s neck.
JMO

 

[CrimeAway]

“That officer applied just enough pressure to keep him alive for almost six minutes in that chokehold. There needs to be a nationwide policy change. When a man is in handcuffs and is screaming that he cannot breathe. Get the **** off his chest and/or neck. If you can't hold a man who is in handcuffs down by his feet you’re a p***y and probably shouldn’t be wearing that badge," Jon Jones said to TMZ


Jones said that which is alot different than saying officer Chauvin used an MMA choke or blood choke.

Whatever the name of the position that Chauvin held Floyd in
(and it is entirely possible that different branches of fight/combat sports may use different terminology, in addition to general colloquialisms), the danger of positional asphyxiation has been known for several years as evidenced by this article from 2019.

How To Prevent Positional Asphyxia

Please do not assume that this is regular or accepted practice by law enforcement.

 

[margarita25]

IMO all the evidence is so strong, we’ll see all sorts of reaching for straws. Grab some popcorn.

 

[margarita25]

Whatever the name of the position that Chauvin held Floyd in
(and it is entirely possible that different branches of fight/combat sports may use different terminology, in addition to general colloquialisms), the danger of positional asphyxiation has been known for several years as evidenced by this article from 2019.

How To Prevent Positional Asphyxia

Please do not assume that this is regular or accepted practice by law enforcement.

My point exactly. Potato, potATo - if THAT’s the biggest problem one can find with the testimony, I’d say the prosecution is in pretty good shape so far. Jmo

(sorry for double post, lightning fingers have a mind of their own)

 

[Deleted member 39678]

I feel that Chauvin acted in a totally unacceptable manner while restraining George Floyd. While saying that I still would like to know more about the affects of the fentanyl and methamphetamine mixture in his system at the time of his death.

I'm holding off on whether I feel there's reasonable doubt or not in this case until I hear more about this during the trial.

George Floyd's autopsy puts Hennepin County Medical Examiner Andrew Baker in the hot seat

 

[Factoria]

Something that I really hadn't given much thought to prior to today is just how many times these jurors are going to have to watch video of George Floyd taking his last breaths, while handcuffed and pinned to the ground. I can't imagine how tortuous it would be for his family and friends if they're trying to follow the trial. I hope everyone is strong enough to endure what lies ahead.

 

[GoJacks]

“That officer applied just enough pressure to keep him alive for almost six minutes in that chokehold. There needs to be a nationwide policy change. When a man is in handcuffs and is screaming that he cannot breathe. Get the **** off his chest and/or neck. If you can't hold a man who is in handcuffs down by his feet you’re a p***y and probably shouldn’t be wearing that badge," Jon Jones said to TMZ


Jones said that which is alot different than saying officer Chauvin used an MMA choke or blood choke.

Refer to Jon Jones tweets from after it initially happened. He referred to it as a blood choke multiple times.

I'd post here but not sure if his tweets are allowed.

Also a quick google search of "blood choke/George Floyd" shows a lot of mma/bjj people referencing it as a blood choke in the aftermath of the situation.

 

[shotgun09]

I feel that Chauvin acted in a totally unacceptable manner while restraining George Floyd. While saying that I still would like to know more about the affects of the fentanyl and methamphetamine mixture in his system at the time of his death.

I'm holding off on whether I feel there's reasonable doubt or not in this case until I hear more about this during the trial.

George Floyd's autopsy puts Hennepin County Medical Examiner Andrew Baker in the hot seat

IMO, the crux of the defenses case is drug addiction and it's effects on the human body, and overdose. More than likely there will be witness after witness testifying about them. And in saying that, the case will be like the 'which came first, the chicken or the egg?' Did The knee on Mr Floyd's neck for nine minutes cause his breathing to stop? Or was it the presumed lethal dosing of Opiates and Stimulants ?

 

[margarita25]

I don't think they're claiming it was an MMA choke, rather they're using their knowledge of chokes to describe what they're seeing. I googled DW and you can see him in a fight tapping out from a choke hold (I found it uncomfortable viewing). He has personal experiences of this, plus training. I think his testimony will hold up.

Agree. IMO this guy knows what he’s talking about - if you’ve ever watched an MMA fight, these guys know exactly how to inflict damage...(I can’t watch MMA, WAY too brutal).

Again, even if they were to strike the “interpretive“ part from the record, Williams still gave a very powerful and clear eyewitness account through a personal lens - it was reinforced how in real time, he and others were saying to stop, that he was killing him, as it was happening, that this was clearly apparent to everyone - question is, why wasn’t it apparent to DC and the other cops?

GF was already very effectively restrained, and not a threat or danger to the officers or anyone else, that I’m seeing, so why...I am open and curious to hear thoughts as to how this can be interpreted differently.

I don’t think an objection to his expert witness status
would’ve held up, even if one were made. He is a professional fighter. This is what they do, this is what they know: how to severely hurt people.

—

This reminds me of my early days of martial arts101ETC: we are taught on day 1 that the skills we learn could hurt somebody, very seriously, and could be incapacitating, if not potentially lethal. Therefore, the mindset of this training is to keep in mind, not to use these maneuvers unless your life absolutely depends on it. This obviously doesn’t go along with pro fighting/sport fighting, but my point here is if there was no public threat, to officers or civilians, because he was effectively restrained, then why were lethal maneuvers implemented?

I am not seeing how there was any danger to LE (if there’s a part I missed please let me know); GF was already restrained and handcuffed and on the ground with several cops keeping him down, there was no strategic purpose for the knee on the neck, that I’m seeing. I’m open to hearing if there is any flaw or error in the logic/facts presented above.

IMO, the crux of the defenses case is drug addiction and it's effects on the human body, and overdose. More than likely there will be witness after witness testifying about them. And in saying that, the case will be like the 'which came first, the chicken or the egg?' Did The knee on Mr Floyd's neck for nine minutes cause his breathing to stop? Or was it the presumed lethal dosing of Opiates and Stimulants ?

Here’s where we can look at it like a math equation - if you take one side of the equation out, can it stand alone? In other words, even if GF had zero drugs in his system, would and could the knee in the neck still kill him - meaning, one does not have to rely on the second half of the equation for the other to happen.

 

[jennieohhh]

Something that I really hadn't given much thought to prior to today is just how many times these jurors are going to have to watch video of George Floyd taking his last breaths, while handcuffed and pinned to the ground. I can't imagine how tortuous it would be for his family and friends if they're trying to follow the trial. I hope everyone is strong enough to endure what lies ahead.

Imo, i feel there is so much more than the video that has been shown over n over. I feel like the prosecution is highly focused on the video just like the media was/still is. From what i heard today from the witnesses didn't sway me in one way or another. I mean the 2nd witness was not strong for the prosecution at all, imo. I honestly don't know what she brings to the table. The 3rd witness, was he the "bro" guy in the video? I definitely do not consider anything he said as anything more than he enjoys martial arts. I want to hear from the experts. I want to know about the autopsy results. I want to hear about the discrepancies of all autopsy reports, who performed them, political affiliations etc.

 

[shotgun09]

I am already failing as a " stealth juror". I looked up BloodChoke and I looked up Speedballing. Darnit!

 

[Deleted member 39678]

IMO, the crux of the defenses case is drug addiction and it's effects on the human body, and overdose. More than likely there will be witness after witness testifying about them. And in saying that, the case will be like the 'which came first, the chicken or the egg?' Did The knee on Mr Floyd's neck for nine minutes cause his breathing to stop? Or was it the presumed lethal dosing of Opiates and Stimulants ?

I would like to better understand the cause of death and if that understanding will be enough for me to find reasonable doubt.

At this point in the trial that's not clear to me. JMO

 

[Rocky1]

Williams was way way out of his scope. There's two kind of witnesses, a fact witness and an expert witness. Williams is a fact witness acting like an expert witness. The defense did not do a good job objecting to the distinction nor did the judge who should have kiboshed his subjective opinion immediately. He's a great witness regardless and the prosecution got one over with him.

I think the defense played this good so far . He let Williams go on to gather ammunition. Once he gets Williams on the stand, he can grill him about his "expert" witness testimony, and impeach his credibility. That's his job. My guess is he'll start with asking exactly what jobs he's had to downplay his knowledge, and take it from there.
The judge rules on objections, but the defense never objected. That's why it took so long for him to respond. He let Williams go on to the point where his testimony became argumentative, and then stopped him once he decided that Williams was testifying way outside of the scope of his expertise.

 

[Tom_Servo]

This reference to MMA and Jonnybones is a little puzzling. I don't think Jones is commenting as if he knows what Chauvin was doing. It's just his opinion because that type of choke is never, ever used in MMA. I've seen plenty of MMA fights and I've never seen a single instance of a fighter kneeling on someone like Chauvin. Whatever Jonnybones says is just theater.

 

[mickey2942]

I would like to better understand the cause of death and if that understanding will be enough for me to find reasonable doubt.

At this point in the trial that's not clear to me. JMO

I also found the actions of this LEO very disturbing. I would like to know about the training Chauvin received and any write ups he had from supervisors.

Is this behavior acceptable in Minneapolis PD? And Chauvin just happened to get "unlucky"?

My sincere hope is that this trial is a process for healing and caring. That the community comes together to see this as an aberration, not a "norm". And that George Floyd is recognized, that this situation is going through a jury trial to get the facts.

I have a friend in Minneapolis who has a business, that has been doing fairly well during the Pandemic, he isn't sure whether to move his stock out now, or hold fast. He and his friends are very concerned about negative social disruption during this trial.

 

[Rocky1]

I would like to better understand the cause of death and if that understanding will be enough for me to find reasonable doubt.

At this point in the trial that's not clear to me. JMO

It's hard to draw any conclusion on day one with only the full testimonies of two witnesses.
The defense hasn't even come close to calling their witnesses yet.

The video is hard to watch, no doubt, however, I think it would be hard in a fair trial with less publicity to actually prove that Chauvin intended for Floyd to die. There hasn't been one death in Mlps as a result from a neck hold, it was part of the training, and although it wouldn't have to be proven, what would his motive be?

I agree with those that say Chauvin has an ego problem and wanted to play boss, and I think he wanted to teach Floyd that the more you yell, the harder I press, so shut up, but I doubt it was intentional homicide. He would have been charged with Murder one if the state thought it was imo.

 

[margarita25]

rsbm I have a friend in Minneapolis who has a business, that has been doing fairly well during the Pandemic, he isn't sure whether to move his stock out now, or hold fast. He and his friends are very concerned about negative social disruption during this trial.

I have no doubt that WILL hit the fan if there is an acquittal. That you can count on. But I don’t think an acquittal will happen. I’m laying the wager down now-it ain’t happenin, JMO.

 

[dixiegirl1035]

I did 4 years of high school wrestling and 5 years in BJJ (I'm a purple belt) that is not a choke hold or blood choke by officer Chauvin in exhibit 17, look up a blood choke and it is not even remotely similar to the picture of officer Chauvin with knee on Mr. Floyd's head. I've never once seen someone in BJJ tap someone out by putting their knee on someone's head. I've never heard of anyone speak of the term blood choke. Much more specific about the type of choke, usually just call it by the name, rear naked choke, arm triangle, anaconda choke etc. Donald Williams obviously has a good wrestling background, he obviously has a MMA pedigree, but wrestling is a lot different than BJJ, and MMA, some of these guys that fight in the UFC don't know hardly about chokes and BJJ, there is no choking in wrestling. MMA has boxing, kickboxing and some of these don't even use BJJ.

 

[Deleted member 39678]

It's hard to draw any conclusion on day one with only the full testimonies of two witnesses.
The defense hasn't even come close to calling their witnesses yet.

The video is hard to watch, no doubt, however, I think it would be hard in a fair trial with less publicity to actually prove that Chauvin intended for Floyd to die. There hasn't been one death in Mlps as a result from a neck hold, it was part of the training, and although it wouldn't have to be proven, what would his motive be?

I agree with those that say Chauvin has an ego problem and wanted to play boss, and I think he wanted to teach Floyd that the more you yell, the harder I press, so shut up, but I doubt it was intentional homicide. He would have been charged with Murder one if the state thought it was imo.

I think that some came to a conclusion on Chauvin's guilt before this trial even started. They watched the video and that's all they need.

Myself, I need more than the video. I hope the jury in this case is of like mind. JMO

 

[Deleted member 39678]

I also found the actions of this LEO very disturbing. I would like to know about the training Chauvin received and any write ups he had from supervisors.

Is this behavior acceptable in Minneapolis PD? And Chauvin just happened to get "unlucky"?

My sincere hope is that this trial is a process for healing and caring. That the community comes together to see this as an aberration, not a "norm". And that George Floyd is recognized, that this situation is going through a jury trial to get the facts.

I have a friend in Minneapolis who has a business, that has been doing fairly well during the Pandemic, he isn't sure whether to move his stock out now, or hold fast. He and his friends are very concerned about negative social disruption during this trial.

Trials are not about community healing. They are about justice. JMO