MN - George Floyd, 46, unarmed, killed in police custody, Minneapolis, 25 May 2020 *arrests* #2

[KR72]

Morning all!

I couldn't agree more. Imo, unions arent just part of the problem, but they are front, and center why these things are allowed to happen with the rogue cops allowed to remain on the force.

Imo, the union is the very reason why George's murderer was allowed to remain for years with many complaints already against him.

It isn't like the Union didnt know his record. They did, yet he remained when he should have been fired a long time ago. It's reminds me of someone who protects a fugitive from justice, but the Unions do it in plain sight.

At one time when Unions were first established they were a good thing to make sure employees were treated equally, and fairly. But like anything what often happens the organizations abuses its power.

Instead of protecting all good workers what they they have done is give a license for horrible employees to remain.

Our son was in management in civil service at our Marine Corps base. He is a very fair minded man who truly believes in teamwork, but he expected all employees to do their jobs they were hired to do. Yet there were 5 or 6 who refused to do as everyone else did. These individuals repeatedly came in late, or didnt come in at all nor called. This was a repeated pattern by these men. Rightly so, it caused friction in the entire workforce. No matter how many times he talked with them to do better they still refused. He had no choice but to write them up giving them warnings. He even went to the higher ups showing documented evidence they all needed to be fired. Their attitude, and behavior were causing morale to decline. Nope, all of the slackers just thumbed their nose because they knew the Union would protect them. So in the end because our son knew it was so unfair to all of the great workers he told them he no longer wanted the position since he knew nothing would ever change. And it didn't. But at least it wasn't his headache to deal with anymore.

It's not just police unions either. Imo, It's all of them especially teacher's unions. They continue to keep teachers who are so inept robbing many of our nation's children from getting good education they all deserve.

When any Union continues to protect very bad employees allowing them to remain no matter what they do or dont do injustices will continue to happen no matter which Union it happens to be.

Why should police unions be allowed to have a different set of rules for the employees simply because the bad ones belongs to their Union?

What would happen to anyone else who didnt belong to a union if they failed miserably to do their job or worse grossly mistreated and abused others? We all know the answer.

Yet in any Union they have a different set of rules which winds up shielding the worst employees possible.

It makes no sense. Anyone who fails to do their job duties correctly should immediately be fired unless the employees immediately rectified the problems.

Imo. we have lost common sense. Now more than ever bad apples in all professions who have unions are protected instead of exposed. Too many excuses are being given for inexcusable bad behavior.

George's killer shouldn't have been on the streets in the first place with his dismal record. Yet, the PD officials knew he was a powder keg, but did nothing to remove him.

Jmho

I agree with most of what you're saying but being a union employee myself (in the private sector) I'm very thankful for mine. There are the so called bad apples - and they usually end up getting dismissed if they keep up their behaviours, (the union reps know who they are and end up resenting them).

However, my company is very large, makes billions a year, and would LOVE nothing more than to take away our benefits, pensions, salary, and continually try to violate our working conditions. They try it every time our contract is up. If we didn't have the union protection we have, we could lose much of what we have. For discipline problems, we have a points system and if an employee reaches 55 points, they will be terminated.

Like I said in another post, protecting the bad apples is one of the cons for sure, but even the bad apples in most workplaces don't have the power to kill anyone like Chauvin did. I can't believe I'm saying this but maybe the police shouldn't have unions given that their rogue members can cause a lot of problems and kill innocent people.

A question for anyone who knows, don't police departments have what they call fireable offences? My workplace does, and if you commit one of them, there is nothing the union can do for you and you wouldn't be entitled to their representation.

 

[Boxer]

Yes, he did and he also told the bystanders, "Don't do drugs, kids!" While the officers continued to restrain him and kneel on his neck.

Asphyxiation can lead to cardiac arrest which is why many police forces don't use that maneuver anymore. The mayor in Minneapolis had already banned it the year before. Imo

Asphyxia induced Cardiopulmonary arrest.

 

[Boxer]

Chauvin voted at his address in the extremely wealthy community of Windemere Orange County Florida.
Not a stickler for rules.
Signed a voting document that say it a felony to attest to anything false.

 

[Cubby]

Chauvin voted at his address in the extremely wealthy community of Windemere Orange County Florida.
Not a stickler for rules.
Signed a voting document that say it a felony to attest to anything false.

Link? Tia

 

[MsBetsy]

Asphyxia induced Cardiopulmonary arrest.

Yes, and from what I read, the neck kneeling maneuver is only meant to control suspects who are out of control and a danger to themselves or others.
Once they are in handcuffs, they are to be placed on their side or in an upright position.

George Floyd was not a threat to anybody. He was already handcuffed when they pulled him out of the car and threw him on the ground. He was in a prone position with three officers restraining him, in obvious need of immediate medical attention.

And that's when Chauvin first started to kneel on his neck.

 

[tresir2012]

I believe it was the Union President who argued that the officers should be allowed to continue the maneuver used on Floyd. He said it takes away their control. Imo

If someone could post a link I would appreciate it.

 

[tresir2012]

Asphyxia induced Cardiopulmonary arrest.

Was that on the ME's report? Have we seen the full autopsy?

 

[tresir2012]

Yes, and from what I read, the neck kneeling maneuver is only meant to control suspects who are out of control and a danger to themselves or others.
Once they are in handcuffs, they are to be placed on their side or in an upright position.

George Floyd was not a threat to anybody. He was already handcuffed when they pulled him out of the car and threw him on the ground. He was in a prone position with three officers restraining him, in obvious need of immediate medical attention.

And that's when Chauvin first started to kneel on his neck.

Do we have the video of them pulling him out of the car and do we know why they did that?

 

[tresir2012]

I agree with most of what you're saying but being a union employee myself (in the private sector) I'm very thankful for mine. There are the so called bad apples - and they usually end up getting dismissed if they keep up their behaviours, (the union reps know who they are and end up resenting them).

However, my company is very large, makes billions a year, and would LOVE nothing more than to take away our benefits, pensions, salary, and continually try to violate our working conditions. They try it every time our contract is up. If we didn't have the union protection we have, we could lose much of what we have. For discipline problems, we have a points system and if an employee reaches 55 points, they will be terminated.

Like I said in another post, protecting the bad apples is one of the cons for sure, but even the bad apples in most workplaces don't have the power to kill anyone like Chauvin did. I can't believe I'm saying this but maybe the police shouldn't have unions given that their rogue members can cause a lot of problems and kill innocent people.

A question for anyone who knows, don't police departments have what they call fireable offences? My workplace does, and if you commit one of them, there is nothing the union can do for you and you wouldn't be entitled to their representation.

In the UK police are not allowed to be in a union, take another job or go on strike. Instead of a union, they have a federation to monitor pay and conditions.
Someone said the union wanted this type of neck restraint to stay in police procedures but I haven't seen a link about that. Do the unions have that sort of power over police procedures in the U.S. ?

 

[tresir2012]

Yes, he did and he also told the bystanders, "Don't do drugs, kids!" While the officers continued to restrain him and kneel on his neck.

Asphyxiation can lead to cardiac arrest which is why many police forces don't use that maneuver anymore. The mayor in Minneapolis had already banned it the year before. Imo

So the Mayor had banned it but the police and the unions were still ok with it? Anyone have any links?

 

[MsBetsy]

If someone could post a link I would appreciate it.

The articles are in the last thread but I will look for them. It may take awhile because I don't remember the names of each article, but there was a lot discussion about it.

The article I was referring to was right around the time Chauvin was arrested or maybe before. Apparently the mayor called for the ban in 2019. The Union President, I believe was the one who was quoted or it may have been the police chief. Maybe he's both. I've missed a lot of articles in thread 2.

But this was before they investigated and reported that there was a history of excessive force and that it's used against black suspects at a rate of seven times more often than white suspects.

Chauvin had 17 complaints against him, Thao had seven and in one case he beat and kicked a black man, knocking his teeth out, simply because he looked suspicious.

All of this can be found somewhere in the thread, maybe someone who knows off-hand where it is can find it before me.

 

[KR72]

In the UK police are not allowed to be in a union, take another job or go on strike. Instead of a union, they have a federation to monitor pay and conditions.
Someone said the union wanted this type of neck restraint to stay in police procedures but I haven't seen a link about that. Do the unions have that sort of power over police procedures in the U.S. ?

I'm Canadian, so not too sure about police union power in the US, but here's a link which discusses it.

Hopeful that Minneapolis policing will change? Meet the police union's chief ...

In my city, we have problems with police corruption (covering up for each others DUI's and other violations mostly involving off duty cops) more than police brutality, though there have been cases of that too. Unbelievably, police in my city are allowed to use their overtime (and they get tons of it) towards their pension. I think they're the only police department in N. America that gets that.

 

[MsBetsy]

Do we have the video of them pulling him out of the car and do we know why they did that?

It's in the Statement of Probable Cause. And yes, there is a video of them struggling with Floyd in the vehicle but it's hard to see what's happening and I don't think Floyd can be seen at all.

One article described the officers as beating him up.

We don't know why they did that since he had already told them several times that he couldn't breathe.

Imo

 

[MsBetsy]

So the Mayor had banned it but the police and the unions were still ok with it? Anyone have any links?

No, I don't think they ok with it. He wanted the police force to keep using it but apparently only certain officers were trained to use it. I'm not sure if he was the Union president or a chief in the police force because it's been over a week since I read the article. But I thought he was speaking about all officers in Minneapolis and his reasons for wanting them to be able to use excessive force was to protect the officers. So he was representing the PD.

It's hard to go into all the details without having the articles on hand, but that's where I read about the way officers are trained to use it and when.

 

[Boxer]

Chauvin voted at his address in the extremely wealthy community of Windemere in Orange County Florida.
Not a stickler for laws.
He had to sign a voting registration document saying that he was a resident of Florida in order to vote, which warns on the signature line that it is a felony to attest to false information. Florida Criminal Code: Felony 3rd degree: 5 years and $5,000.
Notably, Florida was a swing state and Minnesota was not a swing state in 2016.

Chapter 104 - 2018 Florida Statutes - The Florida Senate

2016 election results: Florida

 

[tresir2012]

The articles are in the last thread but I will look for them. It may take awhile because I don't remember the names of each article, but there was a lot discussion about it.

The article I was referring to was right around the time Chauvin was arrested or maybe before. Apparently the mayor called for the ban in 2019. The Union President, I believe was the one who was quoted or it may have been the police chief. Maybe he's both. I've missed a lot of articles in thread 2.

But this was before they investigated and reported that there was a history of excessive force and that it's used against black suspects at a rate of seven times more often than white suspects.

Chauvin had 17 complaints against him, Thao had seven and in one case he beat and kicked a black man, knocking his teeth out, simply because he looked suspicious.

All of this can be found somewhere in the thread, maybe someone who knows off-hand where it is can find it before me.

Reason I am asking is, if true, that would then clearly be part of any defence IMO

 

[Sillybilly]

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[Luna20]

Reason I am asking is, if true, that would then clearly be part of any defence IMO

It makes sense to me that DC knew GF from a distance because of the way he descended upon him. He was already restrained in the vehicle, as he also was on the ground. There was no reason for him to hold him down for all to see. What else was DC waiting for? He had him. But he chose to continue the hold. That is the core issue of this, the 8 minutes were a personal reason for DC. He was on such an inflated adrenaline high and gloated in the public dominance. He displayed his ‘power’ to the junior officers and to all those watching. That show ended in ending him. IMO

 

[MsBetsy]

Reason I am asking is, if true, that would then clearly be part of any defence IMO

That's true, but can he be held partially responsible if the mayor banned the maneuver because it was dangerous?

Or if the officers were not properly trained in using it?

By the way, his name is Bob Kroll but I still haven't found the specific article I mentioned before.

 

[tresir2012]

No, I don't think he was ok with it. He wanted the police force to keep using it but apparently only certain officers were trained to use it. I'm not sure if he was the Union president or a chief in the police force because it's been over a week since I read the article. But I thought he was speaking about all officers in Minneapolis and his reasons for wanting them to be able to use excessive force was to protect the officers. So he was representing the PD.

It's hard to go into all the details without having the articles on hand, but that's where I read about the way officers are trained to use it and when.

I did a search in the last thread and this was posted. Unfortunately I am unable to read it as it is not available to Europe. Is this the article you ar referring to?

Former Minneapolis chief shares letter from police union president on George Floyd, calls for his badge