• #281
I predicted yesterday morning he would be home by supper. I also think it’s unlikely he will be convicted. Don has made a career also, in my opinion, of suing people. His attorney will be strong. However, I believe the initial no probable cause was prepared within 48 hours of the incident. They have since had days to pursue subpoenas and warrants. Don’s own unedited raw footage is pretty damming. IMO
There will also be witnesses from among the congregation and some may have their own videos. And he was indicted by a grand jury so they believed their was probable cause that he was guilty of the offences as charged.

I assume the trial will be in Minnesota? I don't think they would have all the witnesses travel away from their homes.

There will also likely be a civil suit, no matter what happens at the criminal trial. I look forward to the church members and the church getting justice.
 
  • #282
I look forward to the families of Renee Good and Alex Pretti getting justice for their deaths. Which we only knew about due to journalist attention to what happened. And in a big way independent journalists in the beginning, Thank you to their efforts to get these stories out. my opinion and fact
 
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  • #283
We sure as heck do know something about that church because of the protest and news coverage.

Well, apparently not all of us. I can't control what others are consuming (or not consuming) for news content.

jmopinion
Did Don Lemon publish factual information about that church?

Lemon's age-restricted "journalistic" youtube video appears to be about disrupting a religious meeting.

In my opinion, Don Lemon has become the news, and other journalists are researching and gathering facts about why he was involved in a protest that violated the FACE Act.
 
  • #284
The question in this case is did LEMON participate or was he serving as press.

Press members are not participants.

Reading the law cited by @otto , my guess is that Don Lemon is going to get squeezed. His status as journalist might not matter.

The law states that it is illegal for anybody to interfere with a religious service by physical obstruction at a place of worship. So.... Lemon following the rioters in, then "interviewing" the church goers sound like he physically obstructed a church service.

Likewise, if I follow rioters into a mosque service and shove my phone into an Imams face and then "interview" him about radical Islam (my phone and my blog make me an independent journalist- right?), I would be physically obstructing / interfering with a mosque service.
 
  • #285
There will also be witnesses from among the congregation and some may have their own videos. And he was indicted by a grand jury so they believed their was probable cause that he was guilty of the offences as charged.

I assume the trial will be in Minnesota? I don't think they would have all the witnesses travel away from their homes.

There will also likely be a civil suit, no matter what happens at the criminal trial. I look forward to the church members and the church getting justice.

“..I assume the trial will be in Minnesota? I don't think they would have all the witnesses travel away from their homes…”

What trial?
 
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  • #286
Did Don Lemon publish factual information about that church?
snipped

Don Lemon (and the other journalists who were there) brought attention to a white nationalist church with a leader who is with ICE.

I don't mind repeating that over and over if needed.

Just because I didn't pay attention to the church protest until the arrests doesn't mean audiences of the journalists didn't. The word got out because of their coverage. I personally wasn't paying much attention until the arrests, but I don't represent the entire audience of those journalists.

jmopinion
 
  • #287
Reading the law cited by @otto , my guess is that Don Lemon is going to get squeezed. His status as journalist might not matter.

The law states that it is illegal for anybody to interfere with a religious service by physical obstruction at a place of worship. So.... Lemon following the rioters in, then "interviewing" the church goers sound like he physically obstructed a church service.

Likewise, if I follow rioters into a mosque service and shove my phone into an Imams face and then "interview" him about radical Islam (my phone and my blog make me an independent journalist- right?), I would be physically obstructing / interfering with a mosque service.
Might have been worth it to draw attention that at least one ICE member is a leader at a white nationalist church.

jmopinion
 
  • #288
“Independent journalism is fundamental to democratic governance because it scrutinizes government actions, exposes corruption, and enables informed citizen participation. When governments arrest or otherwise crack down on journalists —
Thinking if I follow others into a mosque and shove my phone into an Imams face- then "interview" him about terrorism- while ordering him not to push me- wink, nod, there is a chance I might not be functioning as an "independent journalist".

That aside, you do have good points. As much as I think the Lemon needs to squeezed, under what are the charges against him, and under what authority was he arrested?
 
  • #289
Thinking if I follow others into a mosque and shove my phone into an Imams face- then "interview" him about terrorism- while ordering him not to push me- wink, nod, there is a chance I might not be functioning as an "independent journalist".
snipped.

No, that wouldn't work because you are not, in fact, a journalist.

jmo
 
  • #290
No, that wouldn't work because you are not, in fact, a journalist.
Is there a legal definition of "journalist"? And, especially an "independent journalist"?
 
  • #291
Is there a legal definition of "journalist"? And, especially an "independent journalist"?
Well, one indictation would be the ability to look up information.

Professional journalist means a person regularly engaged in collecting, photographing, recording, writing, editing, reporting, or publishing news, for gain or livelihood, who obtained the information sought while working as a salaried employee of, or independent contractor for, a newspaper, news journal, news agency, press association, wire service, radio or television station, network, or news magazine. Book authors and others who are not professional journalists, as defined in this paragraph, are not included in the provisions of this section.

 
  • #292
Well, one indictation would be the ability to look up information.

Professional journalist means a person regularly engaged in collecting, photographing, recording, writing, editing, reporting, or publishing news, for gain or livelihood, who obtained the information sought while working as a salaried employee of, or independent contractor for, a newspaper, news journal, news agency, press association, wire service, radio or television station, network, or news magazine. Book authors and others who are not professional journalists, as defined in this paragraph, are not included in the provisions of this section.
And.... "independent journalist"?
 
  • #293
You stated that it may of been worth it to expose and ICE officer (apparently uncool-right?).

So, I was just wondering if you felt worship services attended by other possible "uncool" people (IDF members?) would be worth disrupting.
I am not following this cool/uncool conversation and respectfully disengage. I'm not 12.

jmo
 
  • #294
snipped

Don Lemon (and the other journalists who were there) brought attention to a white nationalist church with a leader who is with ICE.

I don't mind repeating that over and over if needed.

Just because I didn't pay attention to the church protest until the arrests doesn't mean audiences of the journalists didn't. The word got out because of their coverage. I personally wasn't paying much attention until the arrests, but I don't represent the entire audience of those journalists.

jmopinion
Was it journalism.

After her arrest, many became aware of the reason that Ms. Levy Armstrong, the church protest organizer, violated the FACE Act. Several other protesters (some with cameras/ microphones) were also arrested.

If Don Lemon's journalistic intent was to present evidence-based verified facts, gathered openly and responsibly in accordance with professional ethics, why is his published information restricted to protesters at a church? If the journalistic message was about a member of the church, how did violating, or filming the violation of, the FACE Act inform that message?



 
  • #295
Is there a legal definition of "journalist"? And, especially an "independent journalist"?
Lemon is a disgraced former journalist. He now has a social media site and calls himself an independent journalist. Anyone can do the same.
 
  • #296
And.... "independent journalist"?
An independent journalist is a reporter or writer who isn't tied to a single large media corporation or government, offering unbiased news free from corporate or political influence, often working as a freelancer or through platforms like Substack to report on issues and hold power accountable, serving the public interest directly. They focus on editorial independence, using various digital tools to deliver unvarnished facts and contribute to informed public debate.
Why They Matter
    • Informed Decisions:
      They provide the public with facts needed for informed decisions on important issues.
    • Accountability:
      They hold institutions accountable by challenging authority and exposing wrongdoing.
    • Diverse Perspectives:
      They bring diverse voices and investigative angles to the media landscape, especially in areas with constrained media freedom.


Source

  • The Art of Balancing Editorial Independence in Journalism
    Nov 25, 2023 — Editorial independence is the freedom of journalists to report news and express their opinions without interference.
 
  • #297
Lemon is a disgraced former journalist. He now has a social media site and calls himself an independent journalist. Anyone can do the same.
 
  • #298
What disgraced Don Lemon? That's large word that sounds like it means in general to all and of course that's not true. IMO
 
  • #299
There really is not anything out there that I have seen - even after a cursory google - that indicates there is any evidence that this reporter DL engaged in anything but reporting.

Two judges in Minnesota, with far more knowledge of this case than I, came to the same conclusion.
It appears T then ordered PB to have DL arrested ( bc the DOJ "reports" to T it seems :rolleyes: ).

DL was arrested and released the same day without bail.
I guess it was not such a "national emergency" since there was no bail associated and the menace DL is free as a lark.

I don't follow DL but I guess he is a big critic of T. Many are crying retribution by T.

The whole thing seems like a petty little drama to me and yet another embarrassment for the admin.
Maybe their strategy was to try and deflect, as the disgusting Epstein FIles( with many in the admin named I am told) were being released the same day.

I also imagine for the admin, their deisire is to stifle the press in any fashion the can. This is just my opinion after watching this admins beyond disrespectful behavior towards the press (in particular towards women journalists).

So altho the admin probably knows they don't have much of a case - if there is a "chance", they are going to pursue it.

Just my opinion





JMO
 
  • #300
Your post was very clear. Basically some people are trying to justify the storming of the church with their own biases which will have nothing to do with the court case against those arrested, including Lemon.
I haven't justified storming the church.

I myself have stated more than once that I don't support disrupting worship services, but my feelings are tested knowing it's a white nationalist congregation.

It's a difficult topic that challenges me personally and I'm not shy about saying that it is difficult. I'm a church member and it is shocking to me that a church would be white nationalist.

And I'm not shy about my disapproval that a minister of the gospel and ICE member is part of a white nationalist church.

I didn't know anything about the church until the arrests. The DOJ brought a lot of attention to the church. But just because I'm learning about the church and at least one of its leaders does not mean I approve of disrupting worship. It's a big, false leap to assert that.

This case is about whether Don Lemon was at a white nationalist church as a journalist or protest participant. That's the core issue, imo.

jmopinion
 

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