• #341
Do you have proof this particular church is involved in political campaigning or is this just a generalized comment?
I believe way too many are

Taxing them would help
 
  • #342
Thinking that the definition of White Supremacy Church is (n): If I don't like who worships there, it is a white supremacy church, because if I like the people there, it would not be a white supremacy church.

Now..... apply this definition to "Terrorist Mosque" and I bet the moderators get bent out of shape fast.

Any definitions for "Zionist Synagogue"- anyone, anyone? And another one "Hinduvata Temple"? Any takers, any one at all?

What actions might be justified against say, Terrorist Mosques, Zionist Synagogues and Hinuvata Temples? Can ohh so independent journalists barge in a "interview" their leaders at any time?
BBM

That may be your opinion. It is not mine. My opinion is to denounce white supremacist beliefs and not be affiliated with any religious group that espouses those beliefs.
 
  • #343
I believe way too many are

Taxing them would help
Can't disagree with that. Losing that 501(c)(3) might lead some folks to repentance. JMO
 
  • #344
The law that you cited implied that it is illegal for anybody ("journalist, non journalist etc) to interfere with a worship service. That might include following people in and giving "interviews".

In short, Lemon might not need to be part of a "protest". Rather, he might just have needed to have disrupt the service.
This law: the FACE Act.

I agree. Don Lemon entered a church with a camera and microphone during a religious meeting. He filmed adult and children members of the church, and interrupted the religious meeting to ask questions.

"Freedom of Access to Clinic Entrances Act of 1994 - Amends the Federal criminal code to prohibit:

(2) intentionally injuring, intimidating, or interfering with, or attempting to injure, intimidate, or interfere, any person by force, threat of force, or physical obstruction exercising or seeking to exercise the First Amendment right of religious freedom at a place of religious worship;"

 
  • #345
There you go!! The reason for this church is being exposed which is a good thing in the fight against white nationalism, it has started. It would be a good thing if some of the members spoke out about why they chose this particular church brand. So many churches pop up under the name of Christian. That term we know is also used as a hidey hole for other types of preaching and the people who relate. Yes, that means to them they can call themselves Christians. It will become clear in the upcoming days, the reason DL chose to expose that particular pastor and church. IMO

Those church members don’t owe protesters, agitators , Don Lemon or any Joe Public any explanation, zero. They were there to worship not be dragged into someone else’s political crusade. IMO
 
  • #346
I think this is precedent setting, though. While the type of church may be a chapter in the book so to speak, the whole book is the larger story.

Can someone *known* as a former network journalist, then as an independent journalist, help plan a church protest the way he did (he used the word reconnaissance to describe his own actions), and then play victim (playing the victim is how people avoid responsibility IMO) to avoid prosecution under a very real FACE Act?
The type of church doesn't matter at all, according to the federal statutes that the grand jury found were violated. That's the important part.

Literally, even if it was the Church of Satan, they have the same federal protections under the law that any other recognized religious house of worship has. (I have no idea if they're actually a recognized church but my point stands).

jmo
 
  • #349
So you want to make an assertion, and then claim the evidence is out there, but you won't provide it. Pretty sure there is no such evidence and that's why you refuse to provide it. So back to my original statement: Lemon did nothing you claim.

MOO.
The grand jury believed that Lemon did what is claimed by the prosecution. They indicted him after hearing the evidence against him.
 
Last edited:
  • #351
There will also be witnesses from among the congregation and some may have their own videos. And he was indicted by a grand jury so they believed their was probable cause that he was guilty of the offences as charged.

I assume the trial will be in Minnesota? I don't think they would have all the witnesses travel away from their homes.

There will also likely be a civil suit, no matter what happens at the criminal trial. I look forward to the church members and the church getting justice.

Grand jury, ham sandwich and all. Also, the last time a GJ supposedly handed down an indictment for a high-profile case the DOJ was handling, it turned out to be a farce, IIRC, and all charges were dismissed.

So a GJ indictment doesn't lend credibility to this.

MOO.
 
  • #352
I'm sure they do. This church, however, has a pastor who works for law enforcement at the federal level who deal with the arrests of illegal immigrants in our country. And it has nothing to do with this case of Lemon and company storming a church in the U.S. which is against the law.

Well, it has everything to do with it, as the protesters wouldn't have been there if the director of field operations for ICE wasn't an active pastor of that church.

The charges - no matter how weak they are against Don Lemon - will be a separate matter. Because the court won't be looking at the 'why' of the protesting. It will only be looking at Don Lemon's conduct at the time. If it crossed any journalistic line.

imo
 
  • #353
Did Don Lemon publish factual information about that church?

There is literally no way for us to know right now, but I tend to believe actual journalists (read: not independent podcasters who've never even taken a journalism class) report the truth until I'm proven wrong. They do so for many reasons, including their own reputation and credibility and also defamation lawsuits.

Lemon's age-restricted "journalistic" youtube video appears to be about disrupting a religious meeting.

It is about protestors disrupting the religious meeting. He is reporting on what is happening, which is what journalists do.

In my opinion, Don Lemon has become the news, and other journalists are researching and gathering facts about why he was involved in a protest that violated the FACE Act.

Don Lemon became the news because he was arrested, not because he was reporting on the protestors. The majority of other journalists are defending him because they realize this is a prime example of government overreach and a violation of the 1st Amendment.

MOO
 
  • #354
The type of church doesn't matter at all, according to the federal statutes that the grand jury found were violated. That's the important part.

Literally, even if it was the Church of Satan, they have the same federal protections under the law that any other recognized religious house of worship has. (I have no idea if they're actually a recognized church but my point stands).

jmo
All true @OM

But doesn't it just add another layer

At least for me to understand why the church is so hell bent on prosecution for this trangression
( also as an aside there were MANY protestors - why are they all not being charged ? )

I was brought up in a different religion - one more based on tolerance and compassion - so I had a disconnect on what was happening. I think my church would not prosecute but would use that type of disturbance as a learning experience/a teachable moment.

I understand the law is the law.
But I also believe in a merciful and compassionate God not a punitive one.
Each to their own

Its been a learning experience for me for sure.

Websleuths does not dissapoint.

JMO
.
 
  • #355
Reading the law cited by @otto , my guess is that Don Lemon is going to get squeezed. His status as journalist might not matter.

The law states that it is illegal for anybody to interfere with a religious service by physical obstruction at a place of worship. So.... Lemon following the rioters in, then "interviewing" the church goers sound like he physically obstructed a church service.

Likewise, if I follow rioters into a mosque service and shove my phone into an Imams face and then "interview" him about radical Islam (my phone and my blog make me an independent journalist- right?), I would be physically obstructing / interfering with a mosque service.

Do we think that judges aren't familiar with the law? Because two judges refused to sign the warrant, even stating that the evidence does not show that he broke the law.

Link in this thread.
 
  • #356
Is there a legal definition of "journalist"? And, especially an "independent journalist"?

There is no debating that Don Lemon is a professional journalist. Tricia actually posted a really good post about this. This man has worked for decades making a living on reporting the news, hired and credentialed by CNN. He is a professional journalist. So we can debate the others who coin themselves independent journalists, but when someone has the education, training, and credentials, he's a journalist.

IMO, that isn't the question in Lemon's case. The only question in Lemon's case is was he acting as a journalist or a participant and IMO, it's very clear from the evidence thus far, he was acting as a journalist.

MOO.
 
  • #357
If Don Lemon's journalistic intent was to present evidence-based verified facts, gathered openly and responsibly in accordance with professional ethics, why is his published information restricted to protesters at a church?

SBMFF. Because that's how journalism works. When there's a fire and every journalist is covering the family for NBC, ABC, CNN, etc, you'll see a reporter for CBS covering the neighbor who called 911 instead. This happens in every single story. Journalists compete for their stories and it's always about finding a different thing or a different angle or being some place no one else is. This is nothing new. Nothing Lemon did is anything new.

MOO.
 
  • #358
SBMFF. Because that's how journalism works. When there's a fire and every journalist is covering the family for NBC, ABC, CNN, etc, you'll see a reporter for CBS covering the neighbor who called 911 instead. This happens in every single story. Journalists compete for their stories and it's always about finding a different thing or a different angle or being some place no one else is. This is nothing new. Nothing Lemon did is anything new.

MOO.
This wasn't a fire or any kind of emergency. It was a Sunday church service with families with their children worshipping.
 
  • #359
Lemon is a disgraced former journalist. He now has a social media site and calls himself an independent journalist. Anyone can do the same.

Is he disgraced? Just because CNN cut ties doesn't make him "disgraced." That's just your opinion. Mine is different.

And no, everyone can't do the same because they don't have his credentials, training, and experience. Pretending that the influencer of the week or the soccer mom or soccer dad down the road can just pick up a camera and be in the same league is a crazy minimization of who he is and the experience he has.

MOO.
 
  • #360
I fully agree. I am hoping that the concept applies to journalists disrupting the functioning of a church, mosque, temple by giving "interviews".
No! And in a million words, NO! My brother is a pastor of his church and TOTALLY disagrees with ICE. ❤️ MOO
 
Last edited by a moderator:

Guardians Monthly Goal

Members online

Online statistics

Members online
239
Guests online
3,483
Total visitors
3,722

Forum statistics

Threads
643,595
Messages
18,801,895
Members
245,199
Latest member
Cats Against Crime
Top