• #1,361
Everyone has some kind of bias. That's how people get different opinions.

MOO 🐄
It shows too much of a bias when claims other crimes.
 
  • #1,362
It had not.
Then please, point me to thst moment in the footage, where Lemon starts to interview people in the church before the demonstration started. I will be grateful.

MOO 🐄
 
  • #1,363
Then please, point me to thst moment in the footage, where Lemon starts to interview people in the church before the demonstration started. I will be grateful.

MOO 🐄
It was a continuous disruption, but thank you for pointing out the violation of statute and rights.
 
  • #1,364
Journalists don’t need to “justify” the stories they are following or why. The purpose of journalism is to document, and especially in the time we are living in where fair and free news media is being denied, devalued, and dismantled in favor of disinformation. Journalists have a right to report and share the truth of what is happening in our country: if that happens to be a protest that breaks out in a church, then the people have a right to know about it, and have free access to information gathered by journalists covering it. Freedom of the press is one of our fundamental rights, and one of the first rights to be oppressed and denied by an authoritarian government that seeks to manipulate and control the dissemination of information.

We’ve already seen multiple public news agencies and media groups defunded or eradicated by our current government, which has also repeatedly spoken about being dedicated to eliminating any kind of agency which perpetuated “anti-Christian” views and has thumped their chest repeatedly about being a Christian government. It makes total sense for journalists to be following protest groups around Christian churches or to be interested in documenting both those groups and the churches themselves.
In your opinion.
 
  • #1,365
It was a continuous disruption, but thank you for pointing out the violation of statute and rights.
A disruption which ended the service. A disruption Don Lemon did not participated in.

MOO 🐄
 
  • #1,366
  • #1,367
Journalists were not there to tell the congregation their pastor works for ICE. The journalists were there to gather information and document the situation to inform the public.


jmo
According to the organizer:

"We asked Nekima Levy Armstrong — who is founder of the Racial Justice Network and a civil rights attorney — to talk about the origins of the protest, and the aftermath.

The protest was to draw attention to the fact that a church minister at Cities Church in Saint Paul is affiliated with ICE. ... We thought congregants would want to know they have a pastor in their church doubling as the director for the ICE field office in Minnesota."​


The independent journalist was present before, during, and after the protest to document the organizer and protesters as they politely and respectfully informed a church congregation about an absent member of their church.

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The independent journalist summarized his message after the event:

"Don Lemon is doubling down after being caught red-handed conspiring with anti-ICE radicals who raided a Sunday church service in St. Paul, casting blame on the parishioners whom he labeled “entitled” and accusing them of “white supremacy.”

“I think people who are in religious groups like that — it’s not the type of Christianity that I practice — but I think they’re entitled, and that entitlement comes from white supremacy,” Lemon said of Minnesota’s Cities Church in a jaw-dropping interview with lefty “I’ve Had It” podcaster Jennifer Welch."​

 

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  • #1,368
Otto, I do not even how to say it... But drawing attention to the fact a pastor is an ICE officer does not equal wanting to confront said pastor. There is a vast, VAST difference in meaning between these two sentences. Really.

MOO 🐄
The stated intent, and the end result, appear to have little in common.
 
  • #1,369
Surely if that evidence was available they would have shown it to the judges who said no? Then they would have said yes and there would be no need for a grand jury?
IIRC from reading the opinion of the 8th Circuit Court of Appeals it was stated that if the federal prosecutors did not have all the evidence AT THAT TIME and wanted to pursue the matter further then they should take the case to a grand jury.

So the Circuit Court judges were basically saying that when you finish gathering evidence, THEN you might be able to get an arrest warrant, but on an emergency basis the arrest warrant was denied.

That's very different from stating that the Appeals Court agreed there was no evidence.
 
  • #1,370
IIRC from reading the opinion of the 8th Circuit Court of Appeals it was stated that if the federal prosecutors did not have all the evidence AT THAT TIME and wanted to pursue the matter further then they should take the case to a grand jury.

So the Circuit Court judges were basically saying that when you finish gathering evidence, THEN you might be able to get an arrest warrant, but on an emergency basis the arrest warrant was denied.

That's very different from stating that the Appeals Court agreed there was no evidence.

I haven't read that. The one dissenting appeals court judge said there was clearly enough evidence in his opinion.

 
  • #1,371
The stated intent, and the end result, appear to have little in common.
Their intent was to draw the attention to the fact one of the pastors is an ICE officer. They did not need to confront him to do that, they did not need him to even be anywhere near that church during the protest. Considering that multiple media wrote afterwards about pastor's day job, I'd say the protesters were very, very succesful in drawing that attention (the ethical and legal validity of their methods is a separate question).

But, to repeat myself, the above has absolutely no bearing on the question if Lemon was in that church as a journo. Journalist's job is to record the event, not to ensure the protest fulfill it's aims.

MOO 🐄
 
  • #1,372
It's false equivalence to compare a reporter helping criminals plan a bank robbery to reporters being alerted to attend a peaceful demonstration at a church.

One is easily perceived to be a criminal activity, the other isn't.

MOO
It is a federal crime according to the FACT Act which the protesters violated and are now facing criminal charges. And the protest in the church was in no way "peaceful."
 
  • #1,373
The protesters had a message to convey to the congregation. They did so through loud voices and signs. Additionally, the protesters wanted a wider audience to know so they tipped off journalists to the event, as do groups of all sorts inform journalists of happenings.

The journalists had a role to inform the public. They did so by witnessing, asking questions, gathering info, reporting, broadcasting. Journalists are in the business of spreading information to a wider audience than what is immediately in front of them.

Don Lemon did not use his camera and microphone at the event to inform the congregation. He used his camera and microphone to inform the public.

jmo
 
  • #1,374
Their intent was to draw the attention to the fact one of the pastors is an ICE officer. They did not need to confront him to do that, they did not need him to even be anywhere near that church during the protest. Considering that multiple media wrote afterwards about pastor's day job, I'd say the protesters were very, very succesful in drawing that attention (the ethical and legal validity of their methods is a separate question).

But, to repeat myself, the above has absolutely no bearing on the question if Lemon was in that church as a journo. Journalist's job is to record the event, not to ensure the protest fulfill it's aims.

MOO 🐄
The answer to that question is in the affidavit in support of arrest warrant and the indictment. Both describe in detail the reasons that Don Lemon was arrested.
 
  • #1,375
The independent journalist was present before, during, and after the protest to document the organizer and protesters as they politely and respectfully informed a church congregation about an absent member of their church.

He was documenting the protestso presence or absence of that member was not his problem in any way.
The independent journalist summarized his message after the event:

Journalists can have opinions on things like everyone else. And, like everyone else have their right to expressing said opinion guaranteed by the First Amendment.

MOO 🐄
 
  • #1,376
A disruption which ended the service. A disruption Don Lemon did not participated in.

MOO 🐄
The disruption was continuous, and Lemon was part.

If Lemon didn't know that they were planning a disruption, why did he sit there? If he knew, that is evidence of conspiracy.
 
  • #1,377
The disruption was continuous, and Lemon was part.

Distuption might have been continuous, the service was not. People were leaving the church when Lemon was interviewing the pastor and others.

If Lemon didn't know that they were planning a disruption, why did he sit there? If he knew, that is evidence of conspiracy.
A demonstration after the end of the service would not be a disruption of said service. You would have to prove Lemon knew exactly when the demonstration was supposed to start.

MOO 🐄
 
  • #1,378
Distuption might have been continuous, the service was not. People were leaving the church when Lemon was interviewing the pastor and others.


A demonstration after the end of the service would not be a disruption of said service. You would have to prove Lemon knew exactly when the demonstration was supposed to start.

MOO 🐄

People do leave in the middle of services. The doors are generally not locked.

He had to know in order to go in sit and wait. Try again.
 
  • #1,379
And seems to condemn rather than reconcile, which surprises me as it's so unlike the pastors I know.
Kind of like the "pastor" who led the protest in the Church.
 
  • #1,380

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