• #1,981
Calling someone a name and getting a search warrant are not attacks on the press.

IMO.
When it’s the POTUS doing it, it certainly is. It’s also a problem when Trump, acting as president, bans certain news reporters and news outlets from attending press briefings. That’s called a deliberate rejection of government transparency.

JMO
 
  • #1,982
not to be too teachy-teachy, but I think you are losing your chain of thought.

The subject was that Lemon is not claiming a privilege, he was stating a fact that he was not breaking a law,

You retorted, off topic, that he is claiming journalists are under attack. Well, yeah, he's saying that, but what does that have to do with the fact that he is not breaking a law.

It is interesting how you cannot answer this question: what law was Lemon breaking with what behavior?

Please answer without bringing up Kenneth Starr, the Moscow Murders, molesting coaches, police lines, rolling through stop signs, or claiming privileges. Please do not attach an unrelated court case.

Two judges found no probable cause. It was a slam dunk. Then, a GJ indicted, but there is a great deal of evidence that it did so after the prosecution mislead it on the facts of the case, the law, and gave flawed instructions.

MOO
First, Lemon made the journalist comment, so take it up with him.

The FACE Act, as repeatedly cited, is the law that was violated by interfering with a religious service. Please stop gaslighting.

A grand jury and another judge found probable cause.
 
  • #1,983
Yes. The case law has been linked previously.

IMO.
If you linked it, then it's easier for you to find it than me go through 1600+ pages. It's pretty amazing considering all the ways that journalists, regardless of type, can get tips about confidential information (Deep Throat, etc) to investigate events, past, present AND future, and there's only one case law denying journalist privilege.
 
  • #1,984
If you linked it, then it's easier for you to find it than me go through 1600+ pages. It's pretty amazing considering all the ways that journalists, regardless of type, can get tips about confidential information (Deep Throat, etc) to investigate events, past, present AND future, and there's only one case law denying journalist privilege.
There are more, like the Judith Miller case, but SCOTUS will not even here it.

This is one of the key cases: https://supreme.justia.com/cases/federal/us/408/665/

It established a precedent.

Here is another case: https://law.justia.com/cases/federal/appellate-courts/ca4/11-5028/11-5028-2013-07-19.html

There is only one case, Loving, that says people of different races can marry, but that is binding everywhere, because SCOTUS decided it. That is how our system works.

IMO.
 
  • #1,985
As for the FACE act, any conviction has probably been jeopardized by all the above (first time, open doors, welcome mat) plus the recent pardons, plus the appearance of malicious prosecution against the journalists which taints the whole case.
I don't think an argument of:

- "Well, our stated intent was to disrupt a worship service in a Church, but.... there were no locked doors, guards or 'keep out' signs at that church. So..... everything is cool-right?
is going to work at a trial (sentencing, yes. I think it could be offered as a mitigating circumstance.).

In the end the FACE Act's key components seem to be: Did you inhibit first amendment freedoms at a place of worship (Check Yes, or check no)?. Not.... Ok, did you force your way in and then inhibit those freedoms? If I were a defense attorney, I would give my protester client a hard reality check:

- Let the others present any arguments they want, you are facing serious time.

- Lets try to plea bargain. We can plead guilty to a state charge of Criminal Trespass. Or, a lesser Federal Charge if one exists. Cant Plea Bargain? Then plead guilty. We"ll ask for minimum time based on:

Your honor: My client did not organize the protest and did not select the target. He / she made an impulsive decision to participate. When she saw the famous Don Lemon decked out in Lemon stuff and unpacking journalism gear, she thought she was engaging in a lawful protest. She never would have knowingly engaged in anything unlawful. She has no prior arrest record.

As Ruminations points out, my client did not force her way into the Church. In fact, she did not anticipate going into the Church at all. She thought the goal was to pass out Antit ICE flyers to people leaving, maybe chant some slogans. But, yes, caught up in the moment, she followed the others in. She, (following Rumination's lead) walked into the Church via the open front door. She acknowledges her guilt in suppressing First Amendment Freedoms in a place of worship. She is truly sorry and deserves a minimum, very minimum sentence.
 
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  • #1,986
That's highly inflammatory speculation with zero basis in fact.
JMO
Well, some parts are very factual:

Fun Fact: Lemon and the videographer were, the only journalists who showed up to the Church protest.

Speculation: Little voices might have told the other news reporters that it was not a good idea.

Fun Fact: CNN reporters do not appear to have ever followed protesters into a church, mosque or synagogue to get hot inside scoops.

Speculation: There might be a reason for that.
 
  • #1,987
When it’s the POTUS doing it, it certainly is. It’s also a problem when Trump, acting as president, bans certain news reporters and news outlets from attending press briefings. That’s called a deliberate rejection of government transparency.

JMO
Acting as President!?! He is the President lol
 
  • #1,988
Fun Fact: Lemon and the videographer were, the only journalists who showed up to the Church protest.

Twin Cities journalist Georgia Fort, indicted on federal charges after last month's protest inside St. Paul's Cities Church, entered a not guilty plea on Tuesday.

A sea of supporters greeted Fort outside federal court in St. Paul, Minnesota. She was one of two remaining defendants to enter pleas in connection to the Jan. 18 Sunday service at the church, where a pastor on staff is also the head of the capital city's ICE field Office.

"As a journalist, I not only stand here today asking the world to help protect the press, but to continue fighting for me as long as this case takes," Fort said.

 
  • #1,989
Acting as President!?! He is the President lol
The poster has a subtle style, lol

They know Trump is president. What they didn't say concretely enough for all of us is when Trump is president, he is no longer a private citizen. If he said some things when he was not president, it is fair game, freedom of speech. The same things said while president can become things like threatening journalists and journalism.

It is inappropriate for the president to say many things that are appropriate for a private citizen.

MOO
 
  • #1,990
Fun Fact: CNN reporters do not appear to have ever followed protesters into a church, mosque or synagogue to get hot inside scoops.

Fun question: how many protests in the US happened inside of a church, mosque or synagogue before Minneapolis?
 
  • #1,991
Well, some parts are very factual:

Fun Fact: Lemon and the videographer were, the only journalists who showed up to the Church protest.

Speculation: Little voices might have told the other news reporters that it was not a good idea.

Fun Fact: CNN reporters do not appear to have ever followed protesters into a church, mosque or synagogue to get hot inside scoops.

Speculation: There might be a reason for that.
IIRC, there were other journalists who also covered the event, Georgia Fort and a Mr. Cruze. Speculation about others? Well the prosecution will have to prove their case in court instead of in the news media.


 
  • #1,992
The poster has a subtle style, lol

They know Trump is president. What they didn't say concretely enough for all of us is when Trump is president, he is no longer a private citizen. If he said some things when he was not president, it is fair game, freedom of speech. The same things said while president can become things like threatening journalists and journalism.

It is inappropriate for the president to say many things that are appropriate for a private citizen.

MOO
Thanks. That’s exactly what I meant. Mr. Trump’s words and behavior are very often inappropriate for a person currently serving as POTUS. He verbally claims many powers he doesn’t have, reveals top secret information to foreign leaders and businesspeople, makes inappropriate and abusive threats against our country’s closest allies. JMO

ETA: Does anyone know when the pretrial hearings begin for Lemon’s case? TIA
 
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  • #1,993
Fun question: how many protests in the US happened inside of a church, mosque or synagogue before Minneapolis?
A lot, actually. It was common in Catholic Churches in the late 80's ad early 90's. I remember them quite well.
 
  • #1,994
Thanks. That’s exactly what I meant. Mr. Trump’s words and behavior are very often inappropriate for a person currently serving as POTUS. He verbally claims many powers he doesn’t have, makes inappropriate and abusive threats against our country’s closest allies and is often untruthful. JMO

ETA: Does anyone know when the pretrial hearings begin Gordon Lemon’s case? TIA
How is this relevant to Don Lemon?
 
  • #1,995
How is this relevant to Don Lemon?
I agree. I was simply answering a question someone asked about my earlier comment offering examples of Trump threatening journalists. US presidents aren’t supposed to threaten journalists. Don Lemon is a journalist.
 
  • #1,996
The former CNN anchor was arrested in Los Angeles on Thursday while covering the Grammys. The longtime critic of President Donald Trump is accused of conspiracy and hampering the First Amendment rights of worshippers following his coverage of an anti-ICE protest last month at a church in St. Paul, Minnesota. He denies the allegations, saying he was operating as a journalist.

As Trump-aligned figures increasingly hyped Lemon’s reporting as criminal, Lemon told Kimmel he retained an attorney and offered to cooperate with authorities well before the arrest.

The attorney said, per Lemon, ”‘If you are serious about this, let’s do it the right way. He’s perfectly willing to self-report,’ which means turn yourself in. ‘And so we don’t have to go through this whole rigmarole,’” Lemon recalled. But Lemon said his legal representative “never heard back from them.”

“People who are accused of much worse things than I am accused of doing, they are allowed the courtesy,” said Lemon, contrasting the treatment he received with that afforded to President Donald Trump, who was “allowed the courtesy to turn himself in.”
 
  • #1,997
A lot, actually. It was common in Catholic Churches in the late 80's ad early 90's. I remember them quite well.
Inside the church? No. There was, as far only one protest inside the church, in the US, in that time period, as far as I remember. Stop The Church, December 10, 1989, New York. Before that there were the kneel-ins by the Civil Rights Movement, a non-disruptive form of protest.

I absolutely do not condone nor support disrupting the religious services in protest, let's that be clear. This form of the protest is, though, incredibly rare in the US so the argument that no CNN journo followed the protesters into the church is, well... Quite nonsensical.
 

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