MO - Grief & protests follow shooting of teen Michael Brown #5

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  • #581
I wonder how many of the protesters have sought a career with law enforcement ?

just wanted to thank all for all their updates/opinions/point of views.

in NY - the standards are quite high. test results determine when an individual is called and then a thorough medical, psychological, agility and background are done. one individual could not get into NYCity le cause of a dui. also, if one's hair is shorter than 1.5" - then they shave one of your legs (for drug testing).

most local towns & NYCity throw out one's application for juvenile offenses - zero tolerance.
 
  • #582
IMO the authorities better think long and hard before even considering charges against Off Wilson without very strong damning evidence.

If they charge that officer and there is a sham trial to appease the protestors things will really heat up and a whole lot of folks in this country will be VERY peeved off. There will be a LOT of support for that officer and that sure won't play will with the protestors.

Everyone knows opinions became heated during the Z trial, this one will be far far worse and I seriously doubt if WS would even be able to keep threads open.

Holder coming to Ferguson is NOT a good sign in my opinion. I see him more as a catalyst for division than any sort of justice or healing.

This case is making me see things in a much different light than I did yesterday. It really is a jungle out there, and maybe the civilized world did end in 2012. I shudder to think about what's coming our way.
 
  • #583
From the Today Show this morning, MB's parents (and atty) were on:
http://www.today.com/news/michael-browns-parents-justice-will-bring-peace-ferguson-1D80081288

Totally one-sided presentation of this story. Matt Lauer interviewed them. Now, I didn't expect him to come right out and say, "Well, what about the officer's account of what happened?", or, "What about the footage of your son, roughing up (allegedly) the store clerk?", or even, "Was your son violent?"

But, come on....they could have at least presented the other side of what's being said after the parents were on. They said nothing.

The parents, for their part, are delusional, imo, but I guess that's expected. Mom says the only thing that will bring peace to Ferguson is to have the officer arrested, tried and convicted -- to hold him accountable for his actions. Dad says, 'no, he doesn't think the protests are taking away from the emphasis on their son, at all!'

Total, total, delusion. I would have more respect for them if they could be honest and say, "Yes, our son had his faults. He had a temper problem," whatever...something! But this....head in the sand mentality, when they know.....they had to have seen the videotape of the strongarm robbery...(or are they saying it wasn't their son?)...they had to have heard the officer's version of what happened by now (via the family friend)...they must be aware of these things, as well as THEY know their son probably better than anyone. Did he have an anger problem? Could they honestly see him holding up a store, roughing up a clerk, bum rushing a cop?
 
  • #584
oh gal


i kinda expect this - not really different from other cases.

one fact clarification if anybody knows - i read where m.brown lived with his grandmother - is this correct?
 
  • #585
Well, I don't have much to say, lol! Just tuning in since this morning. I think Baden did what he was hired to do. Part of the "deal" in hiring him (IMO) was the LIMITED and controlled release of what he found in his exam, thru the filter of those that hired him. He's a respected forensic pathologist-- they needed that to release the findings in the way that they wanted to present them. There is nothing earth shattering (or difficult) about what he found-- that the victim died of shots to the head. It's the bending, folding, spindling, mutilating, and twisting of those findings to try to make it fit the "shot in the back while surrendering" narrative that is so offensive to anyone with an IQ above 70, IMO. The incessant search for the elusive and magical zebra, while the horses are stampeding all around.

He said all the shots were fired from the victim's front. Other ME's have pretty much agreed with him. He with-held a lot of info at the request of those that hired him. He determined that MB died of the shots to his head. It's other people who are trying to bend, spindle, fold, and mutilate his words to somehow make it somehow magically, or remotely "possible" that MB was either surrendering or running away. That just isn't what the evidence shows, in Baden's opinion-- and a lot of others who have weighed in (such as Dr. Case, who did the county autopsy.)

And the Purcell guy-- pffft! He is qualified to "own" his business, and hire other qualified and credentialed providers to do the work, and nothing else. He has exactly zero credentials to comment on forensics, do any component of any autopsy, or speak in any authoritarian way about any findings. He's not EVEN a qualified professional funeral director! He would be shredded in a deposition. Yes, I know he somehow was qualified as an expert a few times somewhere, but he has been on the razor thin edge of legal conduct for a long time. He's lucky to not be charged with crimes for his "work". He is not respected. He has a general studies bachelor's degree in life sciences-- and is not credentialed in ANY field. He's a completely unqualified, uncredentialed hack for hire. (And did I read he's trying now to get into chiropractor school.....so he can call himself a "doctor", maybe??) There is no such thing as "on the job training" with no appropriate educational credentials, to call yourself a "forensic autopsy assistant", or whatever the heck he made up in his own mind and put on linkedin. Guy's an idiot-- and should not be given one single second of media attention or coverage. My veterinarian is more qualified than he is-- heck, I may even be more qualified than he is, lol! He's a joke-- really. He's a business owner, not any kind of educated and credentialed professional.

Thanks for providing your opinion. I was so dismayed to watch yesterday and see Baden's words twisted throughout the day. I was dumbfounded when Parcells was on every show multile times saying, "the results are consistent with someone surrendering!!!!!"

Late last night he was on one of the shows, and was saying that "WE will be reviewing all the other evidence of the autopsy, and WE will then be able to figure out what happened." I'm paraphrasing.

All these tv anchors are treating him as if he's an ME and he never corrects them, and let's them believe he's some sort of "partner or peer" of Baden's. If he keeps it up he's going to be found out, and I wouldn't be surprised if it makes a lot of people question why Baden is associated with him.

He's also going to potentially cause a problem b/c what if the final findings prove to be much more in line with the police officer's version of events? The people of Furgeson will really feel as if the authorities are lying to them.
 
  • #586
oh gal


i kinda expect this - not really different from other cases.

one fact clarification if anybody knows - i read where m.brown lived with his grandmother - is this correct?

Good question. And if he did live with his grandmother, how long had he been living with her? Since he was a small child or for a short time?
 
  • #587
Thanks for providing your opinion. I was so dismayed to watch yesterday and see Baden's words twisted throughout the day. I was dumbfounded when Parcells was on every show multile times saying, "the results are consistent with someone surrendering!!!!!"

Late last night he was on one of the shows, and was saying that "WE will be reviewing all the other evidence of the autopsy, and WE will then be able to figure out what happened." I'm paraphrasing.

All these tv anchors are treating him as if he's an ME and he never corrects them, and let's them believe he's some sort of "partner or peer" of Baden's. If he keeps it up he's going to be found out, and I wouldn't be surprised if it makes a lot of people question why Baden is associated with him.

He's also going to potentially cause a problem b/c what if the final findings prove to be much more in line with the police officer's version of events? The people of Furgeson will really feel as if the authorities are lying to them.

I questioned why Baden was associated with him; surely he knew his reputation? I'm assuming it was part of the "deal", although WHY Baden would consent to any deal eludes me.

In my opinion Baden looked very uncomfortable.
 
  • #588
Video of the DJ's attorney "explaining" what happened according to DJ, I love how even the attorney uses "street names":

[video]http://video.foxnews.com/v/3736886851001[/video]
 
  • #589
Thanks for providing your opinion. I was so dismayed to watch yesterday and see Baden's words twisted throughout the day. I was dumbfounded when Parcells was on every show multile times saying, "the results are consistent with someone surrendering!!!!!"

Late last night he was on one of the shows, and was saying that "WE will be reviewing all the other evidence of the autopsy, and WE will then be able to figure out what happened." I'm paraphrasing.

All these tv anchors are treating him as if he's an ME and he never corrects them, and let's them believe he's some sort of "partner or peer" of Baden's. If he keeps it up he's going to be found out, and I wouldn't be surprised if it makes a lot of people question why Baden is associated with him.

He's also going to potentially cause a problem b/c what if the final findings prove to be much more in line with the police officer's version of events? The people of Furgeson will really feel as if the authorities are lying to them.

He was just on CNN a few minutes ago. He's now saying "WE can't really tell for sure if Brown was shot from the back" and "Dr. Baden and I will need to examine the clothing and see the toxicology reports to make a further determination" Plus. "WE will need to review the initial autopsy report" blah blah blah.
 
  • #590
Video of the Mayor "explaining" what happened according to DJ, I love how even the Mayor uses "street names":

[video]http://video.foxnews.com/v/3736886851001[/video]

Yeah, "steet names". When I was dating a pagan many long years ago, it was explained street names kept people, LE especially, from tracking you down. Ah yes, could it be we are seeing the true mentality of that area?

My opinion only

I'm getting hateful again, and I hate myself for it. Then I ask, "is truth hateful"?
 
  • #591
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Sorrell sky- This is not exactly a direct response to your post. It started as one, but it got away from me. I am using it as a springboard, because there have been many posts with similar thoughts expressed. Any time I use the word you, I am referring to the general reader, not you specifically, except in this section. Don't feel like you have to respond or that I expect one. Unless, you are really moved to reply, then feel free.

Everyone Else- If this is pretentious or you disagree, point your wrath at me. Leave Sorrel sky out of it. If there is anything that rings false or absurd let me know.

-



People are frustrated and don't feel like they are treated as American citizens but as second class in the country of their birth. A man was gunned down in the street and the LE seems to be dragging their feet on investigating it compared to if the roles were reversed. Then instead of using community policing, the LE act like an occupying force. It isn't this one shooting incident that is causing this reaction, it is just the latest in a series, the biggest one being the scarcity of jobs for 18-30 yo. It is the old straw that broke the camel's back cliche.

I have heard more than once in these threads "where are the MLK's" or "MLK must be rolling over in his grave." Well people are intimidated into not channeling their inner MLK or Ghandi, because they were assassinated for their beliefs. An entire vanguard of leadership was wiped out in the 1960s, when JFK, Macolm X, MLK, and RFK were assassinated. The civil rights and left have never really recovered from that loss of leadership. Jesse Jackson as far as I can tell was no more than a security presence for MLK at the time of the assassination. The status quo is perfectly happy with leaders like Sharpton and Jackson, because they are not very effective and can be bought off with bribes if they ever stumble onto an effective message or method to provoke change.

Then you have lottery winners like Oprah who uses most of her wealth to make more money and allots more of her charity to African causes than here in the US. Or Jay-Z, Beyonce, and Kenya who making a living by asking those without to live vicariously through their lyrics and exploits. Others like Russell Simmons preach taking care of their own when on MSNBC or Real-time w/Bill Maher, but has no problem promoting "credit" cards that ask poor people to pay 15-20% surcharges to use their own money to restore their credit. MSNBC gives the illusion of caring during a story like this or Trayvon Martin, but other than a media firestorm like this other than the odd poorly researched Chris Hayes report on shootings in Chicago or gentrification impacts in Brooklyn on poor brown kids (African-American and Hispanics), nary a peep out of Rachel Maddow and Chris Matthews. Lawrence O'Donnell only cares about Kids in Africa, kids in Atlanta he couldn't be bothered unless there is a controversial shooting. The rest of the time they are arguing about the stupidest Republican, or which Tea Party leader is the biggest racist. Fox goes in the other direction and stokes the fears and resentments of older Americans. Bill O'Reilly is demonizing and practically begging for one of his "patriots" to take care of a late term abortion provider. While Sean Hannity is praising a tax cheat and a squatter like Cliven Bundy.

A brave intelligent man with limited resources doesn't play a game that is rigged against him. He either changes the game (revolution) or quits (suicide). Most of us aren't that brave or intelligent so we muddle through with rationalizations, like I am not personally a racist, I give to charity, or I vote, so I can't possibly be part of the problem.

Think of it on a personal level. If your own young adult child (19 years old) attempted suicide, because he/she could not figure out a better way to communicate his/her rage of being ignored, lost, and hopelessness, I would hope you would not berate their intelligence or ignore their mental health problems by telling them they have only themselves to blame. You would get them mental health professionals as soon as possible and do everything in your power to get them the resources necessary to lead a productive and happy life if possible. Why, because you provided them with half their genetic makeup and provided their environment that created this crisis. Even if your child made some some poor personal choices along the way and you felt like you were the best parent you could be, you would feel a responsibility for how their life has turned out so far.

Well, in the American experience African-American's have been dealt a pretty lousy hand. Slavery, Jim Crow, lynching, redlining, racial bias in LE, etc. have left a lingering impact that 50 some years of theoretical equality have not been able to eradicate. They have seen foreign waves of Irish, Italians, Chinese, Germans, etc., face a generation of harsh racism or bias, but be accepted into the American Melting Pot as full americans with standards of living and wealth comparable to white Americans that have been here for generations. Yet, african-americans get passed by these new ethnic group.

Yes there are success stories like Oprah or a great athlete that makes more money in a week or month, than most of us will in a lifetime. However, those are the exceptions, not the rule. Under that unrealistic standard, why aren't all white American's as rich as Warren Buffet or Bill Gates? That is an absurd standard, but some people hold african-americans to that standard if they complain about the current power structure.

When a large part of our fellow native born citizens feel like acting like child when on the national stage in the words of some posters, maybe we should start treating them as adults with full rights afforded by the Constitution. What we are doing now does not seem to be working.

A very well articulated and well thought out post. Some of it I agree with some of it I do not. This is a political problem and therefore cannot be gotten into in depth in this thread but is more appropriate in the political pavilion area of WS.

Will not use your post as a jumping off point as I feel I could to continue this conversation because mods would surely scold us and tell us to take it to political pavilion, but wanted to acknowledge that you raise some thought provoking points in yours above.
 
  • #592
  • #593
He was just on CNN a few minutes ago. He's now saying "WE can't really tell for sure if Brown was shot from the back" and "Dr. Baden and I will need to examine the clothing and see the toxicology reports to make a further determination" Plus. "WE will need to review the initial autopsy report" blah blah blah.

I think this guy is a "gump" appointee. There is no way Baden would willing associate with him. I'm guessing it's b/c clearly he is willing to promote the narrative by spending his day making the rounds on every news program.

The problem with his appearances is it all depends on how the anchor asks the question. If it's sort of vague or open ended (like with Shepard smith yesterday afternoon) he just straight up says, "the report is consistent with eyewitness accounts" and unlike Baden just leaves it there.

IMO he's actually going to be the cause of a lot of problems.
 
  • #594
  • #595
He was just on CNN a few minutes ago. He's now saying "WE can't really tell for sure if Brown was shot from the back" and "Dr. Baden and I will need to examine the clothing and see the toxicology reports to make a further determination" Plus. "WE will need to review the initial autopsy report" blah blah blah.

Baden told teh truth and I feel he gave his best dterminations within the scope of what was available to him at the time. Unfortunately, his assessment did not support the narrative sought so Mr. Parcells was brought in to attempt to spin the findings more toward that narrative. I find it shady and will not be considering anything else this man has to say as evidence or expert testimony because he is so obviously there to pander to the family's need to see this incident as they do even while evidence coming to light disputes it. He is a puppet and his views are not worthy of my consideration for that reason.
 
  • #596
Video of the DJ's attorney "explaining" what happened according to DJ, I love how even the attorney uses "street names":

[video]http://video.foxnews.com/v/3736886851001[/video]


So DJ claimed MB was shot in the back while running from the officer. Then he clarifies his statement after the autopsy report by saying maybe not his back but the back of his right arm. He then says MB turned around and faced the officer and the officer continued shooting. If MB turned around, then his left arm should have now been in the line of fire. Guess the officer must have re-aimed in order to be able to continue shooting at the right arm. (Who believes that????)

ETA: If I was running from someone who was shooting at me and I got hit somewhere in the back, I'd hit the ground. I wouldn't turn around and face the person shooting at me.
 
  • #597
  • #598
So DJ claimed MB was shot in the back while running from the officer. Then he clarifies his statement after the autopsy report by saying maybe not his back but the back of his right arm. He then says MB turned around and faced the officer and the officer continued shooting. If MB turned around, then his left arm should have now been in the line of fire. Guess the officer must have re-aimed in order to be able to continue shooting at the right arm. (Who believes that????)

There is more than one person who said they saw MB jerk around like he had been hit and it is possible the first shot hit him in the arm. It makes sense that it would cause him to spin around or react by looking back at the officer.

Looking at all possibilities it is possible he was shot while facing away and then turned and was shot again facing forward.

Just watched Kobilinsky say the same thing. It just can not be discounted. If you want to find the truth you have to consider all the relevant possibilities. If not then neither side is open to the truth.
 
  • #599
He was just on CNN a few minutes ago. He's now saying "WE can't really tell for sure if Brown was shot from the back" and "Dr. Baden and I will need to examine the clothing and see the toxicology reports to make a further determination" Plus. "WE will need to review the initial autopsy report" blah blah blah.

IMO any gunshot residue on clothing might not mean anything. A shot was fired in the car, I guess if the weapon was holstered MAYBE there would be very little powder flying but it is also quite possible that powder did fly all over the officer/MB/dash of the car. Regardless any powder on clothing would be argued about endlessly on both sides.
 
  • #600
There is more than one person who said they saw MB jerk around like he had been hit and it is possible the first shot hit him in the arm. It makes sense that it would cause him to spin around or react by looking back at the officer.

Looking at all possibilities it is possible he was shot while facing away and then turned and was shot again facing forward.

Just watched Kobilinsky say the same thing. It just can not be discounted. If you want to find the truth you have to consider all the relevant possibilities. If not then neither side is open to the truth.

The first shot could have been from inside the car as they allegedly struggled for the gun.
 
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