MO - Six Mohler family members for child sex crimes, Bates City 2009 #2

[PAXIMUS]

Yes 20 years later !

I do not know how it is for all victims of sex abuse but alot of them do supress their memories of horrors that happened to them. My aunt would be one of those victims from my grandfather, her father.
Her abuse came to light 35 years later after the fact she thought she was going nuts.

I also have a good friend of mine where memories of her father molesting her started to surface when she was 55 years old, the molestation started occuring for her around 8 years of age and it was devestating for her, both my aunt and friend are in counseling for this, and will be for years to come.

No doubt, I have personal experience with disassociative identity disorder (DID) (not me) and I have seen things like this come out years later so it is possible, I dont doubt it for a minute but I still remain skeptical, time will tell.

 

[pennydawn]

I'm sure there is a lot about this case to which the public isn't yet privy. There have been links posted here about this being the third attempt to prosecute these alleged abusers. Perhaps this crawlspace woman tried before, too. Maybe she isn't a blood relative, but linked by a marriage. Who knows why she was let go, or how she escaped? No one has yet reported on the other baby. No one even knows how old this girl was, when she was alleged kept as sex slave/prisoner in the crawlspace. Only she knows the answers to these questions.

As far as "risky" murder goes: I've yet to hear of a murder that isn't risky. I think the whole case is risky. If you believe Johnny Gosch can't go home (in part) because of his involvement with illegal happenings--and I know not everyone does--it's possible to believe that little girls would be told to participate in a murder, in order to shut them up, and keep them subservient.

I find it interesting (and important) that they allege it was this man's life or theirs on the line. If a man would rape his daughters, why wouldn't he kill them? Also, it's interesting that the alleged murder victim was a large man, someone they couldn't possibly have killed on their own. Perhaps their father knew he'd be doing the killing anyway. It would be interesting to hear the girls' testimony. Maybe there was a shred of recognition in the victim's eyes. Maybe he knew who Mohler was...recognizing him too late...and maybe Mohler had a beef with him. Maybe he knew about the girl in the cellar, maybe he knew about all of it. Maybe he was a random victim. No one knows.

Another thing: it doesn't matter how long a victim of child abuse--let alone child sexual abuse--keeps her mouth shut. Then length of silence does not determine the truth of her tale. Unfortunately, most of us never tell. I don't blame this girl one bit for clamming up for twenty years. Jaycee Dugard has taught us all that survival comes first.

I think it's all right to be skeptical, here, but I also think that when we're talking about the prevention of child sexual abuse, we can't be too careful. We owe it to the children who *might* be abused next, in addition to those whose innocence has already been stolen.

 

[Missizzy]

My brain is starting to spin a bit. I thought we all understood that the abuse took place from the mid 80s-mid 90s. Then, of course, there's the "friend" saying that the Mohler female was approached a month ago. But AM (the victims paternal grandmother) lived until 1991. She definitely might have been very ill will cancer but where were the other women? I'm very confused about the four boys' wives, including the victims' mother, and their whereabouts. If my math is correct, they would have been in their 20s and possibly were married with children. We know that David is married and has two children the same age as the victims.

The family tree shows AM dying in 12/91 and Burrell Sr. marrying SM in 10/92. That was mighty quick. Where was SM? She would have been step-grandma. Wasn't there a comment that Burrell Sr. sold the Bates City house around that time? Maybe he took his new bride and moved her away from the house of horrors.

And I can't figure out this statement from the Search Warrant:

"In an interview on November 4, 2009, XXXX stated that she recalled her daughters asking if they had another sister that did not reside with the rest of the family. XXXX provided a photograph of the crawl space inside the former Mohler residence."

Whom did they interview? I'm assuming this would be Burrell Jr.'s wife, the victims' mom. Why would she have a photograph of a crawl space? Does that strike anyone as awfully strange. Is this the same woman who all the "commenters" on Topix are called the "vindictive ex-wife"? If this woman actually knew about the abuses and a girl living in the crawl space, isn't she culpable in some way?

Answers?

 

[Blue_Dolphin308]

None of the women would notice a woman being held in the basement??? A link I saw said the kids knew about her but didn't know who she was.

Even if they did notice that there was a girl being held in the basement, what would they ahve been able to do about it?? Probably nothing, without risking there safety or well being.

Keep in mind they were probably told that if they told anyone, that they would be hurt or beaten. So in order to try to prevent minimal damage they just went along with it. Like self preservation.

 

[pennydawn]

In reference to the "barn": I just watched the report on the Mohler men's second court appearance: www.fox4kc.com.

The reporter states that he spoke with several family member who'd attended family reunions when this abuse allegedly took place, and they didn't see anything. IWannaKnow, this made me think of you. *hugs.*

 

[Blue_Dolphin308]

And why didn't this woman report being held in the basement up until now?
I really wonder what kind of accusations will come next.

Im sorry but I tend to believe these victims. Its post and accusations like this that cause victims NOT to come forward, for fear of being judged!

What are you going to do, if and when these accusations are proven to have actually happened??? Stuff like this does go on, speaking from personal expeirence here, I have witnessed far worse, and can only imagine what these girls had to go through. Ritualistic abuse does go on, and is very very rampant in the U.S and Canada, despite the False Ritual abuse cases in California in the 80's. Just because that was not proven to be accurate, does NOT mean that it does NOT go on. Its just well hidden and well thought out. I am of course speaking from personal expierence, I am a ritual abuse survivor myself.

 

[Blue_Dolphin308]

For what purpose would someone ask three little girls to kill a grown and pretty large man?
This was supposedly years ago so the girls would be little.
How would that be physically possible, anything else aside?

Easy! To terrorize them, To use it against them, well if you tell on us, then we will say that you helped us kill a man! To make them comply! To make them feel guilty about what they did!

I am sure they had help to kill this man, as stated in previous news reports. They were not the only ones doing it.


These claims may seem outlandish.... But trust me, this stuff does go on, and this is only the tip of the iceburg, I am sure!

 

[Blue_Dolphin308]

Whoah--I wasn't ready for this but here goes. As I've said before, it's almost like these monsters used a "playbook". They weren't the first to come up with these ideas, sadly. This is from (out of Canada):

http://www.ritualabusetorture.org/research.htm

1. Ritual abuse cults/groups were both intergenerational and extra-familial

2. Child victims are forced into a group bonding process often with the co-operation of their family and forced to take vows and oaths of secrecy

3. Programming triggers are indoctrinated into survivors when they are children

4. Victims are subjected to mind-control programming using hypnosis, mind-altering drugging, and the implantation of trigger messages to prevent them from disclosing their ritual abuse ordeals

5. Torture—long-term and repeated—pain, deprivation, death threats, harassment, and intimidation is used on young victims

6. Victims are forced to violate others

7. Survivors spoke of the profits ritual abuse torturers earned from filming or videotaping the violence, from the forced prostitution of victims, and from drug trafficking

8. Active cult members continue to threaten and harm adult survivors in a multitude of ways in order to force them to remain silent, most are threatened with death should they disclose their ritual abuse, and many have seen those who threaten them murder others thus their fears are justified

9. Perpetrators engage in organized efforts to discount the survivors disclosure of their ritual abuse-torture ordeals

10. All survivors told of extreme difficulties in finding any useful therapeutic help

11. Ignorance of medical staff often put some survivors at risk of self injury

12. Helpers of survivors are also targets of organized efforts by perpetrators needing to discount and discredit the helper’s work with survivors of ritual abuse. Helpers must also deal with discreditation, denial, and disbelief from peers and the medical community, and may helpers reluctantly stop working with survivors because of these acts of harassment and oppression, and/or because of burnout and/or impossible practice conditions

This is EXACTLY what I am talking about. I am a survivor of this type of abuse. I know it all to well!

 

[luvbeaches]

Thanks luvbeaches for sharing your knowledge of basements & crawlspaces....basements in TX are few & far between...I can't think of one person in my family who's ever had a basement....but I've seen them on tv.

Crawlspaces creep me out and I have no desire to go anywhere near a place like that. I guess I am just claustrophobic, but I need a fair amount of space between my head and a ceiling.

We have friends and family in Texas and none of them have basements. With the tornadoes we have, I am glad we have them!

These people make me sick. It's all over our news and in our papers. I am so glad that the victims stepped forward.

 

[luvbeaches]

This is EXACTLY what I am talking about. I am a survivor of this type of abuse. I know it all to well!

I'm so sorry. It's just hard for me to even begin to process what some adults do to their own children.

 

[PAXIMUS]

I'm so sorry. It's just hard for me to even begin to process what some adults do to their own children.

Some days I really hate people...

 

[Blue_Dolphin308]

I don't believe this has been linked:

http://www.kansascity.com/679/story/1575436.html

"Mohler Case Now Has Tale of Murder, Buried Babies"

Am I the only one to think that this title is attempting to minimize, trivialize and discount this crime?

Many media outlets will try to do this, if there is any hint of ritualistic abuse. For fear of another repeat of the 80's trials.

I won't be suprised if we hear of more animal sacrifices, or even for that matter human sacrifices. This wreaks of ritualistic abuse, and cult related activity!

Maybe later if I able to I will go into a bit of what I had to go through. The girls here have been through alot, and it wouldn't suprise me that we have only hit the tip of what they went through. Be prepared to hear more, appaulling details, and outlandish accusations. But trust me this is all to real! All to real!

 

[Blue_Dolphin308]

Note that the victim states that she was raped in the chicken coop. That would most likely be hidden from view of the house. If the mothers/female relatives were complicit and/or aware, the rapes could have occurred in the house. I'm not saying that they knew or didn't know. Just an observation.

The incident of the little girls on the water bed was also in a separate location--away from the main house.

Not standing up for tnhe mothers here, but I knwo with me, my mother was complacent, and went along with it, for fear if they did not they would get beat.

And those of you that say, well every mother should go to bat for their child I agree, except, your not in these mothers shoes, and years and years oif conditioning, to get the mother to be complicit does take a toll on you! They could have been beaten everytime they did go to bat for their child. And made to feel like they would not be believed. Its called "programming" They are programmed to follow orders, regardless what those orders are, and if they don't follow the orders, they woudl be hurt, beat, burned, or worse.

That may have been what went on here, ESPECIALLY if this is found to be a cult.

I invite everyone to look up "cult programming" just to see exactly what I am talking about. And you will see exactly what these kids, and woman went through on a daily basis if in fact this is what happened.

I had to go through this myself. Its not fun believe me, I still live with guilt to this day about some of the stuff I had to do!

 

[Blue_Dolphin308]

No doubt, I have personal experience with disassociative identity disorder (DID) (not me) and I have seen things like this come out years later so it is possible, I dont doubt it for a minute but I still remain skeptical, time will tell.

I am DID, and supressed memories are STILL coming out, years after the abuse.

 

[passionflower]

Issues with JVM is on now:
Mohler Sr & Jr buried 1 baby under the cement in basement.........? another baby?
Father and grandfather made the girls killed a man and buried him in backyard.
LE digging up looking for the evidence........

 

[Missizzy]

Ladybass--My thoughts are with you as this plays out. Please, please take care of yourself and rely on your support circle. I am so tremendously sorry that you were hurt. I am also in awe of your survivor status and strength. I know, that in many ways, you need to be here, to bear witness as one who has walked this path.

This is exactly the sort of thing that we've always suspected occurred in our kids' rapist's family. There are just too many similarities. We think that he was kind of a rogue and acting out his own rage against our children. Whatever it was, it was evil.

Because I've worked in child advocacy for the last 25 years, I've read many court reports and psych evals which I wish I could erase from my memory bank. It is absolutely appalling what humans will do to other humans. The uninitiated and uninvolved just have no clue. It doesn't compute with what they know to be true. Most of us cry when our babies have to get a shot. As you can attest, that's not everyone's reality.

We know the horrors of Nazi Germany, we know the horrors that have been come to light in the last 30 years (Fritzl, Garrido, Ng, Dahmer, and on and on). Look at the house of horrors belonging to Anthony Sowell. Ask any one of his poor victims if she knew what she was getting in to when she walked through that door. If Phillip Garrido can hold KC in a storage building for hours as he raped her and hold Jaycee for 18 years as he terrorized her, what's so hard to believe about this case?

Part of me is thankful that naivete still exists. I guess it's lovely that some of us can keep our rose colored glasses on. I know I kept mine on for a long time as I was blessed with an abuse free childhood. It's just not OK in my book to keep the blasted glasses on when your neighbor or sister or brother is bleeding. Take them off and take notice!! Chances are, something is very very wrong.

I'm sorry to ramble but I do believe that something horrid and abominable happened to these victims. We need to sit up and pay attention while LE does their work and brace ourselves for the outcome.

Once again, please know that I care deeply and appreciate your input here.

 

[jjenny]

Issues with JVM is on now:
Mohler Sr & Jr buried 1 baby under the cement in basement.........? another baby?
Father and grandfather made the girls killed a man and buried him in backyard.
LE digging up looking for the evidence........

Yes the man is supposed to be buried in the backyard.
Since he supposedly was a big man, one would think it shouldn't be too hard to find the body buried in the backyard (if any of this actually happened).

 

[jjenny]

Ladybass--My thoughts are with you as this plays out. Please, please take care of yourself and rely on your support circle. I am so tremendously sorry that you were hurt. I am also in awe of your survivor status and strength. I know, that in many ways, you need to be here, to bear witness as one who has walked this path.

This is exactly the sort of thing that we've always suspected occurred in our kids' rapist's family. There are just too many similarities. We think that he was kind of a rogue and acting out his own rage against our children. Whatever it was, it was evil.

Because I've worked in child advocacy for the last 25 years, I've read many court reports and psych evals which I wish I could erase from my memory bank. It is absolutely appalling what humans will do to other humans. The uninitiated and uninvolved just have no clue. It doesn't compute with what they know to be true. Most of us cry when our babies have to get a shot. As you can attest, that's not everyone's reality.

We know the horrors of Nazi Germany, we know the horrors that have been come to light in the last 30 years (Fritzl, Garrido, Ng, Dahmer, and on and on). Look at the house of horrors belonging to Anthony Sowell. Ask any one of his poor victims if she knew what she was getting in to when she walked through that door. If Phillip Garrido can hold KC in a storage building for hours as he raped her and hold Jaycee for 18 years as he terrorized her, what's so hard to believe about this case?

Part of me is thankful that naivete still exists. I guess it's lovely that some of us can keep our rose colored glasses on. I know I kept mine on for a long time as I was blessed with an abuse free childhood. It's just not OK in my book to keep the blasted glasses on when your neighbor or sister or brother is bleeding. Take them off and take notice!! Chances are, something is very very wrong.

I'm sorry to ramble but I do believe that something horrid and abominable happened to these victims. We need to sit up and pay attention while LE does their work and brace ourselves for the outcome.

Once again, please know that I care deeply and appreciate your input here.

Police found a lot of bodies in Anthony Sowell home and yard. Here they are alleging bodies (baby or babies, a big man) should be buried on the property. Let them find it. After all, in this country for someone to be found guilty there needs to be proof beyond a reasonable doubt.

 

[PAXIMUS]

Police found a lot of bodies in Anthony Sowell home and yard. Here they are alleging bodies (baby or babies, a big man) should be buried on the property. Let them find it. After all, in this country for someone to be found guilty there needs to be proof beyond a reasonable doubt.

This is exactly right and I agree, we cant jump to conclusions just yet, we do not know that the place was a "house or horrors" as I have heard it called, at this point we have NO evidence whatsoever that sexual abuse or homicide took place aside from what some people have alleged happened, but no evidence to prove it yet. If they find the body or bodies buried then we have a whole new ballgame.

 

[PAXIMUS]

Yes the man is supposed to be buried in the backyard.
Since he supposedly was a big man, one would think it shouldn't be too hard to find the body buried in the backyard (if any of this actually happened).

Well at this point it is just a pile of bones so his life size really wouldnt matter much, but yes I agree we need a body before we start jumping to a lot of conclusions. It shouldnt be difficult to find a body, as I understand we are talking about a 2 acre plot of land, which really isnt that big, the dogs and various technological gadgetry that LE has at their disposal these days should be able to locate a body or bodies relatively easy once they start looking.

Of couse since he was big the grave would have had to have been rather large so that should make it even easier to find. Most criminals do not bother to do deep graves, most are just a few feet under unless they had access to farm equipment which I have seen no evidence of.