MO - Six Mohler family members for child sex crimes, Bates City 2009 #2

[ohiogirl]

I wonder what the supportive friends and family are thinking about the incest magazines?

 

[IWannaKnow]

I have to say that even if they don't find a body or any jars with notes, the accusations and the found (the particular type) at Sr's home when they arrested him are good enough for me. Call me gullible if you like, I call it realism. I understand those things are not enough to prosecute a case on, but I'm just saying my burden of proof has been met.

I also want to say that to all the people who keep bringing up the CA Satanic-ritual abuse case from the 80's which was proven false - those kids were interviewed by police and social workers at the time, without any representation. Their parents were not allowed to be present and they were not interviewed in the correct manner, multiple times. They were CHILDREN telling these tales, and now, as adults, they admit they were harrassed into telling those stories by the police. These are ADULTS who apparently have been trying to tell this story for years and no one would listen. Apples and Oranges - IMHO.

 

[Texas Mist]

I have to say that even if they don't find a body or any jars with notes, the accusations and the found (the particular type) at Sr's home when they arrested him are good enough for me. Call me gullible if you like, I call it realism. I understand those things are not enough to prosecute a case on, but I'm just saying my burden of proof has been met.

Yeah - what you said, IWK!!!!

What kinda creeps keep mags like that around ??

How will they explain that kinda ? Are they gonna say "oh, I didn't *buy* it myself, I got it at the church white elephant gift exchange", or say "it's just a joke from the guys at work", or "it's not mine -- I was just keeping them for a friend because he didn't want his wife to find them".

I can hear their defense now. :furious:

 

[IWannaKnow]

Yeah - what you said, IWK!!!!

What kinda creeps keep mags like that around ??

How will they explain that kinda ? Are they gonna say :rolling: "oh, I didn't *buy* it myself, I got it at the church white elephant gift exchange", or say "it's just a joke from the guys at work", or "it's not mine -- I was just keeping them for a friend because he didn't want his wife to find them".

I can hear their defense now. :furious:

:bow: - Good one!

 

[jjenny]

I have to say that even if they don't find a body or any jars with notes, the accusations and the found (the particular type) at Sr's home when they arrested him are good enough for me. Call me gullible if you like, I call it realism. I understand those things are not enough to prosecute a case on, but I'm just saying my burden of proof has been met.

I also want to say that to all the people who keep bringing up the CA Satanic-ritual abuse case from the 80's which was proven false - those kids were interviewed by police and social workers at the time, without any representation. Their parents were not allowed to be present and they were not interviewed in the correct manner, multiple times. They were CHILDREN telling these tales, and now, as adults, they admit they were harrassed into telling those stories by the police. These are ADULTS who apparently have been trying to tell this story for years and no one would listen. Apples and Oranges - IMHO.

Yes they are adults making these allegations, but if the allegations are based on "recovered memories" then even most experts agree those kind of memories aren't reliable. There have been a number of lawsuits successfully won in the "recovered memory" cases.
So the police better have some actual evidence rather than just "recovered memories." If they found broken glass jar with no notes, and glasses during their digging, then I am sorry, that's not evidence. In a case where a murder is alleged, I think they need to find a body. Police have multiple people arrested, and I think it's only fair to ask what evidence they actually have.

 

[Blue_Dolphin308]

There is also alot of evidence that recovered memories are real, and they do have some validility!

 

[wfgodot]

The "Satanic ritual abuse" cases were by no means limited to the McMartin Pre-School case in California. This was a widespread phenomenon. Just off the bat, I can recall cases in Washington state and Oregon, a major one in Minnesota, another in Florida, one in Massachusetts---there were many. Every police department or sheriff's office seemed suddenly to have its own "expert" on demonology. Workshops were attended, conferences were held. As every case I know of resulted in dismissal of charges or overturned convictions, this alone wasted precious LE resources, and did so for many years. Families were broken, careers were ruined, jail time was served. The paperback market was innundated with titles like "Daddy was the Black Dahlia Killer," and "repressed memories" season was in its hey-day. Children turned in, and testified against, their parents. Adults "recovered" memories of events which never took place.

What bothers some of us about this case is that the elements herein---abortion, pedophilia, bestiality, minors forced to participate in murder, mock marriages, buried bodies, and more---uncannily mimic the charges made against many people 20 to 30 years ago.

And yet. And yet of course it could be true. But without the evidence LE has announced its seeking---the glass jars, the buried bodies---they're going to have a heck of a time convicting anyone of anything, and yes, I could believe that there was wrong-doing involved at some point in time, and at some level. But by sensationalizing the case during its very investigation, LE has upped the ante of what it must prove at trial. The kidnap/murder allegation in which three children are said to have participated particularly strains credulity to its breaking-point.

 

[IWannaKnow]

Yes they are adults making these allegations, but if the allegations are based on "recovered memories" then even the experts agree those kind of memories aren't reliable. There have been a number of lawsuits successfully won in the "recovered memory" cases.
So the police better have some actual evidence rather than just "recovered memories."

That might be true jjenny - but I trust my "recovered memories" far more than the trash my family spews - they are after all trying to maintain/retain their reputations. JMHO. Just remember, John and Joan Q. Public don't want to believe this happens, so it makes it alot easier to discount, and as we have seen here, proof beyond a reasonable doubt is alot like trying to get Lucas Coe to admit he has herpes when the proof is poor, dead Emma...

 

[jjenny]

The "Satanic ritual abuse" cases were by no means limited to the McMartin Pre-School case in California. This was a widespread phenomenon. Just off the bat, I can recall cases in Washington state and Oregon, a major one in Minnesota, another in Florida, one in Massachusetts---there were many. Every police department or sheriff's office seemed suddenly to have its own "expert" on demonology. Workshops were attended, conferences were held. As every case I know of resulted in dismissal of charges or overturned convictions, this alone wasted precious LE resources, and did so for many years. Families were broken, careers were ruined, jail time was served. The paperback market was innundated with titles like "Daddy was the Black Dahlia Killer," and "repressed memories" season was in its hey-day. Children turned in, and testified against, their parents. Adults "recovered" memories of events which never took place.

What bothers some of us about this case is that the elements herein---abortion, pedophilia, bestiality, minors forced to participate in murder, mock marriages, buried bodies, and more---uncannily mimic the charges made against many people 20 to 30 years ago.

And yet. And yet of course it could be true. But without the evidence LE has announced its seeking---the glass jars, the buried bodies---they're going to have a heck of a time convicting anyone of anything, and yes, I could believe that there was wrong-doing involved at some point in time, and at some level. But by sensationalizing the case during its very investigation, LE has upped the ante of what it must prove at trial. The kidnap/murder allegation in which three children are said to have participated particularly strains credulity to its breaking-point.

Agree with you.
Police arrest multiple people on some serious allegations of murder and abuse. Supposedly a grown man was killed and buried in the backyard. Supposedly a baby (or babies) are buried on the property.
So they should go and find those bodies if they believe that is what indeed happened.
Shouldn't be that hard if it did happen to find a body of a 6 ft man buried in a shallow grave in a backyard.

 

[PAXIMUS]

The "Satanic ritual abuse" cases were by no means limited to the McMartin Pre-School case in California. This was a widespread phenomenon. Just off the bat, I can recall cases in Washington state and Oregon, a major one in Minnesota, another in Florida, one in Massachusetts---there were many. Every police department or sheriff's office seemed suddenly to have its own "expert" on demonology. Workshops were attended, conferences were held. As every case I know of resulted in dismissal of charges or overturned convictions, this alone wasted precious LE resources, and did so for many years. Families were broken, careers were ruined, jail time was served. The paperback market was innundated with titles like "Daddy was the Black Dahlia Killer," and "repressed memories" season was in its hey-day. Children turned in, and testified against, their parents. Adults "recovered" memories of events which never took place.

What bothers some of us about this case is that the elements herein---abortion, pedophilia, bestiality, minors forced to participate in murder, mock marriages, buried bodies, and more---uncannily mimic the charges made against many people 20 to 30 years ago.

And yet. And yet of course it could be true. But without the evidence LE has announced its seeking---the glass jars, the buried bodies---they're going to have a heck of a time convicting anyone of anything, and yes, I could believe that there was wrong-doing involved at some point in time, and at some level. But by sensationalizing the case during its very investigation, LE has upped the ante of what it must prove at trial. The kidnap/murder allegation in which three children are said to have participated particularly strains credulity to its breaking-point.

I spent a lot of time on those SRA cases back in the day interviewing everyone involved and I think in some cases there was actual abuse but people like Ted Gunderson became involved to redirect attention away from the child abuse and on to the less believable and more sensational satanic ritual aspect of it, to cover it all up of course and force people to turn away in disgust. It worked for the most part and a lot of innocent people became ensnared.

 

[IWannaKnow]

I spent a lot of time on those SRA cases back in the day interviewing everyone involved and I think in some cases there was actual abuse but people like Ted Gunderson became involved to redirect attention away from the child abuse and on to the less believable and more sensational satanic ritual aspect of it, to cover it all up of course and force people to turn away in disgust. It worked for the most part and a lot of innocent people became ensnared.

Thank you PAXIMUS. I tried to say the same thing and it didn't come out correctly. You stated what I wanted to say. I think that the Satanic thing doesn't even occur that often, it just gets twisted into that. Makes it all easier to write off. People can't accept that this goes on and want to turn it into Satan worship to make it easier to swallow and discount.

 

[IWannaKnow]

Agree with you.
Police arrest multiple people on some serious allegations of murder and abuse. Supposedly a grown man was killed and buried in the backyard. Supposedly a baby (or babies) are buried on the property.
So they should go and find those bodies if they believe that is what indeed happened.
Shouldn't be that hard if it did happen to find a body of a 6 ft man buried in a shallow grave in a backyard.

Only thing is, this isn't just a backyard, it's 55 acres. All done 20 years ago. Can you remember everything you did 20 years ago? MOO.

 

[jjenny]

Only thing is, this isn't just a backyard, it's 55 acres. All done 20 years ago. Can you remember everything you did 20 years ago? MOO.

Well if I buried a body then I am pretty sure I would.

 

[PAXIMUS]

Well if I killed someone then I am pretty sure I would.

Yes, I would say that would be a defining moment in one's life.

 

[PAXIMUS]

Thank you PAXIMUS. I tried to say the same thing and it didn't come out correctly. You stated what I wanted to say. I think that the Satanic thing doesn't even occur that often, it just gets twisted into that. Makes it all easier to write off. People can't accept that this goes on and want to turn it into Satan worship to make it easier to swallow and discount.

SRA is real, make no mistake, but when the focus becomes black masses and men in robes as opposed to children being molested, I start to wonder about possible motives and agendas.

The focus should always be on the actual molestation, not the props used.

 

[IWannaKnow]

Well if I buried a body then I am pretty sure I would.

Yes, I would say that would be a defining moment in one's life.

Unless you blocked it out. I remember fragments of things but not each and every detail. You guys probably wouldn't believe me either because I wouldn't be able to pull enough "factual evidence" out decades after the events. In fact, I don't have a single shred of "factual evidence" (unless I could convince someone to do a paternity test on one of my nephews and I'm not sure how that could work) but that does not make it any less real or true. If you ask my mother, she will say I'm a liar or "mistaken", my sister on the other hand says "wow, that explains alot of stuff" so there you go...

 

[Texas Mist]

Yes they are adults making these allegations, but if the allegations are based on "recovered memories" then even most experts agree those kind of memories aren't reliable. There have been a number of lawsuits successfully won in the "recovered memory" cases.
So the police better have some actual evidence rather than just "recovered memories." If they found broken glass jar with no notes, and glasses during their digging, then I am sorry, that's not evidence. In a case where a murder is alleged, I think they need to find a body. Police have multiple people arrested, and I think it's only fair to ask what evidence they actually have.

I believed the 1st vics memories were referred to as "suppressed" memories -- it doesn't mean she was in counseling & "recovered" them with help of a therapist.

Often memories are blocked & they come flooding back when least expected -- it is very traumatic.

 

[Blue_Dolphin308]

SRA is real, make no mistake ....

Thanks for acknowledging that it is real. Alot of people just tend to say its not real, because it seems so unbelievable. Which really upsets me, because I know its real... I lived through it! And to constantly have people say its not real, it is very frustrating to me, and very disheartning.

 

[Texas Mist]

I'd also like folks to keep in mind that memories of a small child are exactly that-- a small child...perspectives & proportions are seen differently thru the eyes of a little one.

For example, I have memories of a huge, cavernous-sized bedroom with a ginormous bed -- however, seeing that same bedroom as an adult, the room is actually small -- smaller than any bedrooms in my own home...and the bed was standard size -- not queen or king.

It may be hard to figure out distances because 100 yards could seem like a quarter mile to a little kid.

Just my $0.02.

 

[azmama]

I'd also like folks to keep in mind that memories of a small child are exactly that-- a small child...perspectives & proportions are seen differently thru the eyes of a little one.

For example, I have memories of a huge, cavernous-sized bedroom with a ginormous bed -- however, seeing that same bedroom as an adult, the room is actually small -- smaller than any bedrooms in my own home...and the bed was standard size -- not queen or king.

It may be hard to figure out distances because 100 yards could seem like a quarter mile to a little kid.

Just my $0.02.

I was just going to say this exact thing. I remember when I was little, my friend had a GIANT back yard, I once heard my parents say it was an Acre, I thought that was HUGE! A few years ago, we bought some property, 3 acres, and it looked so small in comparison to my memory of my friends yard that I *remembered*.