MO - Six Mohler family members for child sex crimes, Bates City 2009 #2

[Texas Mist]

I wonder if he knew the Mohler's ?

That's the first thing I thought of, Chicana -- I was even looking at a map of their counties to see how closely they may have lived to each other.

Creepy stuff.

 

[newcomer]

Yes they are adults making these allegations, but if the allegations are based on "recovered memories" then even most experts agree those kind of memories aren't reliable. There have been a number of lawsuits successfully won in the "recovered memory" cases.
So the police better have some actual evidence rather than just "recovered memories." If they found broken glass jar with no notes, and glasses during their digging, then I am sorry, that's not evidence. In a case where a murder is alleged, I think they need to find a body. Police have multiple people arrested, and I think it's only fair to ask what evidence they actually have.

If I'm not mistaken, only the 26 year old who came forward 1st had "recovered memories" and when they talked to the siblings, the siblings corraborated her stories. I could be wrong, but that's the way I understand it and haven't seen where they say the siblings have recovered memories.

I do agree however, that they police will need SOME actual physical evidence as well as testimony from the children to prove a case as horrific as this.

 

[Texas Mist]

Wife of Burrel Mohler aided police in search
Posted by: Sarah Clark, Web Producer
November 18, 2009


<snip>

Some of the videos seized were home movies with unknown content. Others were pornographic in nature with titles like "Mystery Voyeur" and "Pornochio." A number of sex toys were also taken, including a penis pump and four plastic dildos.

Sandra Mohler told police that after she discovered Burrel Sr.'s stash of pornographic magazines and videos, an arrangement was made for him to move into the basement of their home where he would continue to live and sleep. Sandra said on at least two occasions, the most recent being two months ago, she searched his room and found numerous magazines depicting young females fully nude in sexually explicit poses. Other magazines referenced incestuous activity. Sandra said she took some of those magazines and locked them in a file cabinet in her bedroom.


more here

http://www.fox4kc.com/wdaf-burrel-mohler-sr-search-warrant-111809,0,2232990.story

 

[PAXIMUS]

I disagree.

In the majority of child sexual abuse cases there isn't conclusive physical evidence. Most convictions are gained by nothing more than a child's testimony.

Children usually don't report until long after the incident. Most victims don't contract a STD and most don't have the kinds scars necessary for conclusive evidence. Cases with multiple victims, add to that... unrelated victims usually end in conviction. Top it all off with some incest pornography and it's a super strong case.

This particular case is going to be difficult because of the media coverage and the horrific nature of the crimes. Also making it more difficult...it's in the bible belt. People simply prefer to believe things like this don't happen.

Yes a CHILDS TESTIMONY holds a lot of weight in the court room as they dont usually have it in them to get on the stand and lie manipulate and tell tall tales. The problem is we are not dealing with children in this case, we are dealing with adults who are all adept at doing all of the things stated above that most children are not known to do under oath. So I stand by my comment that sans physical evidence this case goes nowhere, they will not be convicted if all the state has is a few racy magazines and some repressed memories.

 

[tgrlaw]

they will not be convicted if all the state has is a few racy magazines .

Yes he will for possessing child porn. Which is a start.

 

[PAXIMUS]

Yes he will for possessing child porn. Which is a start.

I havent seen any evidence that it is indeed child porn, have you? My understanding is that these are legally published magazines that can be purchased on Amazon even. They wont even be admissible if that is the case. But if there is child porn then sure, thats a start, thats physical evidence.

 

[waterlooinspector]

Yes he will for possessing child porn. Which is a start.

Just a question or clarification.....Have they said "child porn"? The incest related porn could all be stuff involving adults of legal age. I am trying to separate fact from speculation and it's becoming more difficult.

How can this case get any more unbelievable?

 

[Texas Mist]

I havent seen any evidence that it is indeed child porn, have you? My understanding is that these are legally published magazines that can be purchased on Amazon even. They wont even be admissible if that is the case. But if there is child porn then sure, thats a start, thats physical evidence.

Please explain how books, movies, or magazines centering on a theme of incest would not be admissible in a case involving incestuous abuse.

 

[shadowraiths]

So I stand by my comment that sans physical evidence this case goes nowhere, they will not be convicted if all the state has is a few racy magazines and some repressed memories.

Bates City, Mo. child abuse allegations reminiscent of '80's ritual abuse panics
Charles McAlpin, Portland Skepticism Examiner
November 17, 8:35 PM

The increasingly bizarre allegations in the Bates City, Missouri child abuse case are reminiscent of satanic ritual abuse cases from the 1980’s and ‘90s. According to KCTV Channel 5 in Kansas City, Missouri, three of the accusers have said that in April 1988, Burrell Mohler, Jr. forced them to participate in the kidnapping and murder of a complete stranger, whose body was then buried somewhere on the Mohler property.

Full article: click here

 

[tgrlaw]

Maybe I jumped the gun on child porn. Photos depicting young fully nude females may have thrown me off. I mean commerially available "INCEST" magazines, could just be a hobby? No connection to actual INCEST.

 

[tgrlaw]

I havent seen any evidence that it is indeed child porn, have you? My understanding is that these are legally published magazines that can be purchased on Amazon even. They wont even be admissible if that is the case. But if there is child porn then sure, thats a start, thats physical evidence.

They don't tend to show any pattern of behavior or interest in the very subject he is accused of partaking in? ????

 

[gxm]

During the search police found an array of pornographic videos and magazines. A number of the magainzes included children appearing under the age of 17. Several of the magazines were incestuous in nature with titles like "Family Taboo," "Best of Family Touch," and "X Family Matters." The articles in the magazines described sexual relations between family members.

Some of the videos seized were home movies with unknown content. Others were pornographic in nature with titles like "Mystery Voyeur" and "Pornochio." A number of sex toys were also taken, including a penis pump and four plastic dildos.

source link: http://www.fox4kc.com/wdaf-burrel-mohler-sr-search-warrant-111809,0,2232990.story

Well, let's just wait and see what's on the "home movies."

 

[pennydawn]

Maybe I jumped the gun on child porn. Photos depicting young fully nude females may have thrown me off. I mean commerially available "INCEST" magazines, could just be a hobby? No connection to actual INCEST.

A few posts up, Texas Mist provided a link to a video news report about SM's experience with Sr's incest porn collection. In this report, the woman states that the girls in some photographs are under the age of 17.

I, for one, am betting they'll find something even more incriminating on the 14 VHS tapes they confiscated. I'm wondering about 14 counts (originally) against the head of this family, and 14 VHS tapes. Hmmm....

This report also talks about undeveloped film, which could be nothing, but could be very much SOMETHING.

No word yet regarding the box-like object buried in the basement? Has anyone found anything, new reports?

 

[raeann]

Just a question or clarification.....Have they said "child porn"? The incest related porn could all be stuff involving adults of legal age. I am trying to separate fact from speculation and it's becoming more difficult.

How can this case get any more unbelievable?

Yes they have stated this

snipped from above fox link
"During the search police found an array of pornographic videos and magazines. A number of the magainzes included children appearing under the age of 17"

 

[PAXIMUS]

Maybe I jumped the gun on child porn. Photos depicting young fully nude females may have thrown me off. I mean commerially available "INCEST" magazines, could just be a hobby? No connection to actual INCEST.

But they are not illegal and will likely be inadmissible as evidence. They are perfectly legal publications that can be purchased at any adult book store.

It is NOT child porn and it is rather irresponsible to say that it is and further spread more false information. No child porn or illegal pornography has been found.

I will be shocked if those magazines are allowed to be introduced as evidence, since they are perfectly legal reading material. Any lawyer should be able to get those thrown out pretty easily.

I dont particularly care for such literature myself, dont get me wrong, but to each their own, its legally protected speech, sorry.

 

[PAXIMUS]

They don't tend to show any pattern of behavior or interest in the very subject he is accused of partaking in? ????

Certainly they do but that doesnt mean they will be admissible. Ever been to an evidentiary hearing? Things like these magazines get tossed ALL THE TIME, I see it everyday.

It is also worth nothing that the females models in these magazine are supposed to look young as that is the point of it all, but they are in fact of legal age, at least they are supposed to be or the publisher is in deep ****, but my point is sure many of them will look 14 but they are really 20 or whatever. Thats how it is. Is it sick? Yes but watcha gonna do, its legally protected speech.

 

[PAXIMUS]

Yes they have stated this

snipped from above fox link
"During the search police found an array of pornographic videos and magazines. A number of the magainzes included children appearing under the age of 17"

Yes they are made to APPEAR to be under 17 as that is the point of the magzine but they are adults not minors. No child porn has been found if they are talking about commercially published incest porn magazines, those are legal.

However, he MAY have a private collection of his own pictures or videos that have some child porn on them, we shall see.

 

[Texas Mist]

But they are not illegal and will likely be inadmissible as evidence. They are perfectly legal publications that can be purchased at any adult book store.

It is NOT child porn and it is rather irresponsible to say that it is and further spread more false information. No child porn or illegal pornography has been found.

I will be shocked if those magazines are allowed to be introduced as evidence, since they are perfectly legal reading material. Any lawyer should be able to get those thrown out pretty easily.

I dont particularly care for such literature myself, dont get me wrong, but to each their own, its legally protected speech, sorry.

I don't mean to pester you, but can you please explain *why* books/magazines/movies, etc spotlighting incest would be inadmissible as evidence in a case where someone is facing rape charges against a grandchild, daughter or niece.

I understand how this legal material could not be admissible in say for instance a crime such as embezzling-- sounds irrelevant to me unless there was a very strong connection between embezzling & incestuous abuse.

However, this legal material does sound very relevant...and I certainly understand any defense attorney worth his salt would argue for said legal material to *not* be admitted as evidence.

On what grounds would it not be admitted??


TIA!!

 

[tgrlaw]

I don't think the legality of the material has any bearing on whether it is admissible. If it tends to show one way or the other that this person who is charged with sexual abuse of family members had a propensity for this type of activity, it could be relevant. Yah, I'd try as hard as I could to get it tossed too, but you gotta admit a collection of this type of material fits with the alleged acts. It may be inflammatory or prejudicial, but it is relevant.

 

[tgrlaw]

Well said Texas Mist.