MO MO - St Louis, BlkFem 8-11, 54UFMO, in abandoned bldg, Feb'83

[Moonwalker9]

Never heard of the company but I googled it and remember reading about them finding perps for several high profile cold cages recently through DNA. Apparently they also used GEDmatch. Do you think they also work with establishing identitities for does?

I also wonder since St Louis Jane doe was sexually assaulted didn't they find the DNA from her perp? I never heard of anyone mention it.

 

[Roselvr]

DNA Doe Project isn't the only one doing doe matching. DNA Doe Project does not match kids so they would not even look at our girl. Carl had called her LE; we're not sure where they stand. Gonna paste in what I wrote on FB this morning.. Feel free to share my post in other threads. There are more then enough Does to go around between the 2 companies.

Parabon is doing similar to what DNA Doe Project is doing with trying to ID Doe's with "family tree" DNA at GEDmatch. We've seen their name in the press with them identifying killers by using DNA; I wasn't sure if they were going to start Doe matching so I contacted them the other day to ask if they will; they are; it's called Snapshot. The guy Thom that I spoke to was very nice.

I asked if they'd be doing kids; he didn't mention it so it's on my question list; so is the price. I'm sure LE will want to have an idea of price before they even contact them.Does anyone have any more questions that I can ask? I'm putting his contact info below; please pass it to any LE you're in contact with. You can tell Thom you got his info from me, Roselvr

- - From Carl K At the time, I mentioned the St. Louis girl and indicated that that would be an ideal case for what they did. He indicated that there are federal grants available for communities, and those with larger populations and crime rates (e.g., St. Louis) have a better chance to get the grants.

I forwarded Thom's information to Daniel Sweeney, the detective in charge of the St. Louis headless girl case.. But I don't know what has happened beyond that, and I wouldn't expect that they would keep me in the loop of what they decided. - -

If you have a particular case you think we should be working on, please contact the detective in charge of the case and provide him/her with a link to our website Parabon® Snapshot® DNA Analysis Service - Powered by Parabon NanoLabs. Simply ask the detective to talk with me about the DNA available in the case so I can assess whether or not Snapshot is even an option for the agency to consider. If you send an email to the detective, feel free to copy me. If you have a conversation via phone, send me a follow up email and give me their contact information. Once you’ve made the introduction, I will contact them to explain the technology and find out if there is sufficient DNA available in the case.

My contact information is in my signature below. The detective may also find the links (below) to our customer testimonial page and social media sites informational, so you may want to point those out as well.

Best,

Thom Shaw

IAI Certified Forensic Artist & Snapshot Case Manager
Parabon NanoLabs
Phone: (703) 689-9689 Ext: 261
E-mail: [email protected]
Parabon® Snapshot® DNA Analysis Service - Powered by Parabon NanoLabs
Testimonials - Parabon® Snapshot® DNA Analysis Service
FBINA 230

Parabon FB Parabon

 

[taramarie]

I wonder if DNA Doe Project has considered changing their policy on child cases. The reason I bring this up is because their initial rationale, which made sense at the time, was that they didn’t want to take advantage of the GEDMatch users who had simply uploaded their DNA for genealogical purposes; therefore it seemed unethical to implicate a user’s family member in a crime. Things have changed drastically over the last few months though. Parabon has identified multiple murder suspects, which has caused GEDMatch to warn their users of the potential uses of their DNA profile and even go as far as to encourage users to remove their accounts if they are uncomfortable with LE having access to their information. Now that users are aware of how their DNA can be used, DNA Doe Project’s initial rationale doesn’t make as much sense to me. Obviously, they’re doing amazing work either way, and their case guidelines are ultimately up to them, but I hope in light of these changes they change their minds.

 

[Al Ka]

Just to clear up small confusion I see occuring here. Parabon was providing only one DNA Snapshot service until recently - and that was called Snapshot aka Sketches made from DNA by phenotyping technique. (This technique was and is used widely by LE for crimes suspects but also for unidentifed)

I am quite sure what Carl discussed at that time with Parabon and also with LE was to use Phenotyping technique to create sketch of this case child victim.

Just for information, last year in August 2017, Parabon Nano Labs partnered with NCMEC (The National Center for Missing & Exploited Children) to use Snapshot DNA Phenotyping service to assist with efforts to identify unknown deceased children. (Sounds very promising for this case). Parabon Snapshot to be used to aid identification of child victims | East Idaho News

Only this May, 2018 Parabon announced new services of Genetic Genealogy after Golden state serial killer was cought and also only after DNA Doe Project solved succesfully 2-3 high profile cold cases by then for free. (I remember when Parabon announced this new for them quite lucrative venture as I have posted it on my own page).

Here their announcement of new service Parabon, Known for Phenotyping, Announces Genealogy Service

Now both those services Parabon calls Snapshot services
- genealogy DNA analyses (search for family connections)
- phenotyping sketches from DNA
Parabon® Snapshot® DNA Analysis Service - Powered by Parabon NanoLabs

So as far as I am aware genealogy services were not or not yet discussed with Parabon for this case.

Small naughty thought, well if Parabon is in partnershipt with NCMEC why don't we enquire NCMEC about this case? She surely is or should be on their list of children? That would be good way to get both phenotyping sketch and genealogy services for our girl ...

 

[Roselvr]

Just to clear up small confusion I see occuring here. Parabon was providing only one DNA Snapshot service until recently - and that was called Snapshot aka Sketches made from DNA by phenotyping technique. (This technique was and is used widely by LE for crimes suspects but also for unidentifed)

I am quite sure what Carl discussed at that time with Parabon and also with LE was to use Phenotyping technique to create sketch of this case child victim.

Just for information, last year in August 2017, Parabon Nano Labs partnered with NCMEC (The National Center for Missing & Exploited Children) to use Snapshot DNA Phenotyping service to assist with efforts to identify unknown deceased children. (Sounds very promising for this case). Parabon Snapshot to be used to aid identification of child victims | East Idaho News

Only this May, 2018 Parabon announced new services of Genetic Genealogy after Golden state serial killer was cought and also only after DNA Doe Project solved succesfully 2-3 high profile cold cases by then for free. (I remember when Parabon announced this new for them quite lucrative venture as I have posted it on my own page).

Here their announcement of new service Parabon, Known for Phenotyping, Announces Genealogy Service

Now both those services Parabon calls Snapshot services
- genealogy DNA analyses (search for family connections)
- phenotyping sketches from DNA
Parabon® Snapshot® DNA Analysis Service - Powered by Parabon NanoLabs

So as far as I am aware genealogy services were not or not yet discussed with Parabon for this case.

Small naughty thought, well if Parabon is in partnershipt with NCMEC why don't we enquire NCMEC about this case? She surely is or should be on their list of children? That would be good way to get both phenotyping sketch and genealogy services for our girl ...

I'd have to talk to Carl but you may be right but if LE followed up, it could have been during the Golden State Killer reveal; I can't recall how long agogits been

Carl spoke to them about generating a face and about DNA Doe Project taking the case. Had LE contacted Parabon they'd know about snapshot, but we're not really clear on that because of LE/Client confidentiality. He couldn't tell me if they did speak to LE about her case.

I'll post back after I speak to Carl. I sent him a message so we'll see

 

[chemicalpixie]

Hi! This is my first time posting and tbqh I made an account solely to interact with this thread, because I heard about the case of this little girl about a month ago and it broke my heart, so I started to look into it more and ended up here.

Most of the girls I had written down as possible identities for Jane Doe were all ruled out by DNA, but here are two that caught my eye. They're both a bit older and heavier than our girl is estimated to be, as well as being out of the suggested state range. I'd disregarded others for similar reasons, but what caught my eye about these two, however, is both have identifying scars on their head. Since it has been theorized that the killer removed her head so as to remove a specific identifying mark, such as a scar or a birthmark, I thought these two might be worth more looking into, particularly since nothing I read mentioned if they grew up in the areas they vanished from or not.

The first girl is - Laronda Bronson, who went missing in 1982 in Portland, Oregon, at age 18. She was 5'6" or 5'7", and weighed 110 lbs when she went missing. She has a scar on her chin and on the back of her neck.

Missing Person Case

The second is Shonna Wesley, who went missing from Dallas, Texas, in 1981, when she was sixteen. She was 5'5" and weighed 130 lbs when she went missing, and had a scar on her head, which I think might be visible in her picture. Though in her case it is important to note that she had a two year old daughter at the time that she vanished who was left behind when she vanished.

Missing Person Case

I'll admit that I don't know much about how aging bodies works, so if anyone has any accurate info on it that does rule out these girls, feel free to correct me. I just wanted to add my theories out there in the hopes that it might help to get this little girl identified.

 

[Moonwalker9]

Welcome to this forum! interesting that you signed up for this particular case. I also have a big interest in it.

I do believe she was decapitated to not reveal her identity, could have been a birthmark or scar or more likely the murderers connection to her.

Unfortunately these 2 dont match cause the girl was between 9-11 (even if she was tall for her age) and these other 2 are teenagers. I dont think our girl was ever reported missing, so she's not in any database for missing persons. The few black girls that matched her have been ruled out through DNA. Our best shot to ID her is Dna Doe or Parabon.

 

[thefragile7393]

Welcome to this forum! interesting that you signed up for this particular case. I also have a big interest in it.

I do believe she was decapitated to not reveal her identity, could have been a birthmark or scar or more likely the murderers connection to her.

Unfortunately these 2 dont match cause the girl was between 9-11 (even if she was tall for her age) and these other 2 are teenagers. I dont think our girl was ever reported missing, so she's not in any database for missing persons. The few black girls that matched her have been ruled out through DNA. Our best shot to ID her is Dna Doe or Parabon.

Pretty sure you're correct sadly....

 

[dotr]

delete, thanks.

 

[KaylaraOwl]

Welcome to this forum! interesting that you signed up for this particular case. I also have a big interest in it.

I do believe she was decapitated to not reveal her identity, could have been a birthmark or scar or more likely the murderers connection to her.

Unfortunately these 2 dont match cause the girl was between 9-11 (even if she was tall for her age) and these other 2 are teenagers. I dont think our girl was ever reported missing, so she's not in any database for missing persons. The few black girls that matched her have been ruled out through DNA. Our best shot to ID her is Dna Doe or Parabon.

Any word on Kelly Staples being compared to this Jane Doe?

 

[Moonwalker9]

Kelly Staples went missing in 1980. She's very short for her age. Unliley she was held captive 3 years before being killed. That scenario is very uncommon since most Non-family abductions of children are killed within 48 hours, Our girl showed no sign of neglect, she even had her nails polished.

Then there is Toya Hill, who's also too short and she was also ruled out.
Missing Person Case

I thought she was Sharaun Cole,
Missing Person Case

Everything seemed to match, age, height, date of missing but she was ruled out by DNA I think.

 

[Moonwalker9]

Accoring to Margaret Press from DNAdoe

"We'd love all these children to be identified. As Colleen Fitzpatrick said above (that was Colleen in the previous DDP reply), she can take these cases through her separate company Identifinders, which also takes suspect (crime scene) DNA cases"

I guess its's against DNAdoe's policy to do children, So basically its's Identifiers that will do children cases. I hope our doe can be made a case there.

:: IdentiFinders - Home ::

 

[Roselvr]

Accoring to Margaret Press from DNAdoe

"We'd love all these children to be identified. As Colleen Fitzpatrick said above (that was Colleen in the previous DDP reply), she can take these cases through her separate company Identifinders, which also takes suspect (crime scene) DNA cases"

I guess its's against DNAdoe's policy to do children, So basically its's Identifiers that will do children cases. I hope our doe can be made a case there.

:: IdentiFinders - Home ::

Where on DDP did you get the quote from?

I've "known" Colleen online since 2009 when we both worked the Benjaman Kyle case; although we didn't work on it together. I've followed her since then, reading her Identifinders blog. The work she does was fascinating back then, she was doing things not many people were doing. I've been helping adoptees since 1999. At one point started suggesting people do family tree DNA. 4 years ago I made the jump to work on my family tree, did my DNA 3 years ago mostly what started as interest in what she did.

I've said in the past, Colleen has her own company where she identifies children so it was my opinion she may take cases DDP won't.

In the case of our little girl here, I do think Parabon may be the best fit because Parabon offers grants so it may be more doable to LE. We really could use her face, especially if there are no family tree matches.

 

[Mrs. Badcrumble]

Margaret Press replied to a question in the DDP post from 21/7 about the cases they're currently working on. It's quite far up, you have to do a bit of searching -Facebook algorithms can be a bit of a hassle!

Where on DDP did you get the quote from?

I've "known" Colleen online since 2009 when we both worked the Benjaman Kyle case; although we didn't work on it together. I've followed her since then, reading her Identifinders blog. The work she does was fascinating back then, she was doing things not many people were doing. I've been helping adoptees since 1999. At one point started suggesting people do family tree DNA. 4 years ago I made the jump to work on my family tree, did my DNA 3 years ago mostly what started as interest in what she did.

I've said in the past, Colleen has her own company where she identifies children so it was my opinion she may take cases DDP won't.

In the case of our little girl here, I do think Parabon may be the best fit because Parabon offers grants so it may be more doable to LE. We really could use her face, especially if there are no family tree matches.

 

[Moonwalker9]

Where on DDP did you get the quote from?

I've "known" Colleen online since 2009 when we both worked the Benjaman Kyle case; although we didn't work on it together. I've followed her since then, reading her Identifinders blog. The work she does was fascinating back then, she was doing things not many people were doing. I've been helping adoptees since 1999. At one point started suggesting people do family tree DNA. 4 years ago I made the jump to work on my family tree, did my DNA 3 years ago mostly what started as interest in what she did.

I've said in the past, Colleen has her own company where she identifies children so it was my opinion she may take cases DDP won't.

In the case of our little girl here, I do think Parabon may be the best fit because Parabon offers grants so it may be more doable to LE. We really could use her face, especially if there are no family tree matches.

Hope you found the post...

Whoever decides to do this case, Parabon or Identifinders and succeeds It will be a revolutionary case for DNA and it will make the headline news and make their brand immortal. Not only we are able to create a computerized face through her DNA but finding her true identity after 35 years through GEDmatch or a similar site is nothing short of amazing. I feel that there is good hope. We just gotta make sure that they take on the case sooner then later.

 

[Roselvr]

Hope you found the post...

Whoever decides to do this case, Parabon or Identifinders and succeeds It will be a revolutionary case for DNA and it will make the headline news and make their brand immortal. Not only we are able to create a computerized face through her DNA but finding her true identity after 35 years through GEDmatch or a similar site is nothing short of amazing. I feel that there is good hope. We just gotta make sure that they take on the case sooner then later.

I don't have time for FB.. Wish I did.

I agree it will make headlines for sure. Can't wait for that day!

 

[Tanningbed]

I cannot seem to find this case in NameUs.

Female child, age 8-11, 4'10"-5"6", 70-80 lbs., found in basement of abandoned apartment building Feb 28, 1983. Evidence of sexual assault. Wearing only bloody yellow sweater which was lost during investigation. Cause of death was strangulation. Decapitated after death. Head never recovered. Hands bound with red and white rope commonly used on boats. No blood near body except on sweater. Police checked reports of missing children and students who had stopped going to school. Isotope testing showed victim had spent most of her life in southeast. Several victims ruled out. Malnourished. Mild case of spinal bifada. Post mortem interval of five days.

May have been victim of Vernon Brown who was executed.

Victim may have resided at care facility due to spinal bifada. Unknown if police checked nursing homes.

 

[booghawk]

This belongs in this thread.

MO - MO - St Louis, BlkFem Child 54UFMO, 8-11, in abandoned bldg, Feb'83

 

[Tanningbed]

I'm thinking this child was abused and died from neglect in a care facility. She had a mild case of spinal bifada. Maybe her parents turned her over to the state because they were unable to care for her. I'm not sure if a mild case of spinal bifada would be disabling enough that she needed to be in a care facility. I don't know if her condition was bad enough for a wheelchair, etc.

 

[Roselvr]

I'm thinking this child was abused and died from neglect in a care facility. She had a mild case of spinal bifada. Maybe her parents turned her over to the state because they were unable to care for her. I'm not sure if a mild case of spinal bifada would be disabling enough that she needed to be in a care facility. I don't know if her condition was bad enough for a wheelchair, etc.

Probably not being mild. I think my grandson is sicker then her, he has Chiari malformation with tethered spinal cord.