• #43,321
OR, they might have been honest with the family about what scenario they believed was playing out, and advised them not to pay YET but to make the videos and try to get proof of life. If she was really kidnapped, the kidnappers should have continued trying to get paid.

Or she was really kidnapped, the letters were real and NG died. If so, there was no reason to keep communicating and increase the chance of getting caught because of it. It doesn't have to be all one or the other. MOO
So, was this a Hobson's choice? All or nothing? Clearly, she was kidnapped. Perp held all the cards. I believe the ransom notes were real and from the perp. Perp set the rules. He was tired of being controlled by others, by the intrusive thoughts in his head. He wanted the attention of SG. Basically "you are no longer telling me what to think or feel. I am telling you!" JMO
 
  • #43,322
Didn’t they say someone turned on the lights inside the house? Someone was ok with lights.
Thanks for the information, I had not heard that. Did a neighbor see the lights go on in the middle of the night? Or maybe the lights were on when the police got there the next day.

Seems odd that he brings a small light to see in the dark to avoid detection but ends up turning on the interior house lights.
 
  • #43,323
he could have walked by there or had his car there... dogs have super sensitive hearing until they are old
Dogs also have a keen sense of smell. My pups could smell when my husband was home from work and walking up to the door. They didn’t see him, but their sense of smell was on point.
 
  • #43,324
Thanks for the information, I had not heard that. Did a neighbor see the lights go on in the middle of the night? Or maybe the lights were on when the police got there the next day.

Seems odd that he brings a small light to see in the dark to avoid detection but ends up turning on the interior house lights.
I thought the sheriff said the lights were on inside the house too, but I can’t confirm that right now.
 
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IMO, the contents of the ransom notes were real, but were NOT written by the kidnapper(s). It was written by an individual that was either at the initial response to the crime scene or someone with intimate knowledge from that scene trying to scam a buck.
If this is what happened, these fake kidnappers need to be found and face the most severe charges possible. They diverted LE/FBI attention from finding NG, interfering with an ongoing investigation which could have cost NG her life.
 
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If this is what happened, these fake kidnappers need to be found and face the most severe charges possible. They diverted LE/FBI attention from finding NG, interfering with an ongoing investigation which could have cost NG her life.
This may well have been the case and it's disturbing that the FBI can't identify them.
 
  • #43,331
Why was she still licensed to drive a car if she couldn’t “drag “ herself to the mailbox? Surely she would have to pass tests for a driving licence which would include mobility, sight, health issues? Why was she living alone with these mobility issues? How did she navigate every day activities within her large home? JMO
Even if you can no longer walk, you can still drive a car. One of my neighbors is handicapped and must use a walker. But he has a monster truck he gets into and tools around town in it all the time.
Edit to add: I want to add this is an elderly neighbor.
 
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  • #43,332
If this is what happened, these fake kidnappers need to be found and face the most severe charges possible. They diverted LE/FBI attention from finding NG, interfering with an ongoing investigation which could have cost NG her life.
Got another TODAY scenario. (Ideas change daily.) What if NG was awake and heard a noise at the front door? She opens the door and is subdued. The culprit(s) go inside, find nothing of value, and when they return, they find NG either deceased or motionless. They decide to take her rather than chance a murder charge. This could make sense because we have not heard of signs of an inside house struggle or blood in the house but only on the front door outside area. Would NG actually open the door at that hour? Over-confidence in neighborhood safety? Over-confidence since no one had ever bothered her home? I think it's possible, but, then, it seems anything is possible in this case.
 
  • #43,333
Even if you can no longer walk, you can still drive a car. One of my neighbors is handicapped and must use a walker. But he has a monster truck he gets into and tools around town in it all the time.
Yes, my own mother was driving even though she could barely walk using a walker.
 
  • #43,334
It’s just about the neighbors ring camera videos showing vehicles passing by around the time her pace maker stopped.
So using the word bombshell means nothing for AB?
Clickbait, pffft!!
 
  • #43,335
Why was she still licensed to drive a car if she couldn’t “drag “ herself to the mailbox? Surely she would have to pass tests for a driving licence which would include mobility, sight, health issues? Why was she living alone with these mobility issues? How did she navigate every day activities within her large home? JMO
I think she wanted to get her mail herself, but maybe she needed help at times if she was in a lot of pain. She sounds like she was able to get around her house and drive herself, but may not have at night due to the extreme darkness. I think it’s wonderful she was living in her home if that’s what she wanted to do. Her family is close by and would possibly speak up if they were concerned. She might have help with her home as far as housekeeping etc., but we don’t have that information.
 
  • #43,336
Why do you think these women would not let the FBI in? To me that would cause immediate suspicion.
I’m not sure? Maybe she doesn’t want to get involved? Maybe she or someone else who lives there could potentially be involved? I read it was a woman, singular, but maybe more than just that live there.
 
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So, was this a Hobson's choice? All or nothing? Clearly, she was kidnapped. Perp held all the cards. I believe the ransom notes were real and from the perp. Perp set the rules. He was tired of being controlled by others, by the intrusive thoughts in his head. He wanted the attention of SG. Basically "you are no longer telling me what to think or feel. I am telling you!" JMO
I had to look up Hobson's choice. Great reference. :) Looking back with the oh so popular hindsight, NANOs did describe it as an abduction from the beginning. We don't know whether there was a ransom note at the scene. I do wonder about that. A ransom note at the scene that the kidnappers believed was not taken seriously could explain why ransom notes were sent to the media.

First mention of the FBI was on Feb 3 - at least in CBS' timeline.

I simply can't remember at this point but, is it confirmed that PCSD stated they thought the ransom notes were a scam? The FBI hasn't said that, and I don't believe they would. At least not publicly. If there was even a small chance they were real, they would not want to anger a kidnapper.

The reason I'm asking is because the family video did not appear until after the FBI was mentioned publicly. I'm just trying to link to some threads and figure out who was probably advising SG and Fam at what point. This has been back and forth so much things are getting muddled in my brain. Thanks!
 
  • #43,338
Yes, I think because we don't think an evil, violent person is in our circle of neighbors, friends, family etc. We think it's good for anybody else to pay attention but if someboy in my circle looked different and was acting differently, I'd generally think it was related to stress with job, marriage, children, health issue, the list goes on. JMO
Catching up here, and I think you’ve made a very important point.

For the most, we choose our friends on a whole heap of our ‘even subliminal’ criteria - next comes our Close Friends who are decided on a far stricter scale (and the trust) ..

So if there’s a call to arms re an appalling act, our friends don’t come into consideration. .. can I now say ‘unfortunately’ - as I think it matched with your sentiment of the unwritten’ friendship code’.

In atrocities such as this, where we are asked to dig deep and examine - I can certainly acknowledge the challenges experienced by those who ‘wonder’, and their thoughts of recriminations, particularly if they get it wrong ! It’s a big call. It could be the end of a valued friendship.

I’ve known people who should be awarded every Acting Gong there is, due to their ability to bare faced Lie ! and to be affronted if they’re called on it !

IMO that saying about ‘the wolf in sheep’s clothing’ has caused more angst to the righteous amongst us than it has held meaning / warning to those teetering to the other side - (reason being the good people care, the rest don’t - about anyone other than themselves)

There will be people who wonder about involvement re Nancy - I pray for their courage in righteousness. And I pray also that if innocent, their associates will respect & honour their righteousness.

Apologies for my long winded off load . .. long time thoughts exploding, as I can’t understand why there’s no answers after all this time.

I’m thinking this perp is sitting Cocky, they succeeded in the break-in and abduction, have made a laughing stock of not only the local Pima County investigators, but also of the FBI. .. that’s huge ( sort of. These days a lot of people focus on the wage they earn, where the perp may have been driven by other factors)

Umm I wonder was that the goal all along ? To defy the system ? To prove their ability ? ( why Nancy is a different brain exercise for me !)

But, if those were the goals, I would say they’ve done that, well and truely.
With a seperate soul, I say this has been a skilful & well executed operation. well done and mission accomplished. What ever that mission was.

Ok. Someone please shut down my mind . . because now I’m thinking more, and now I think perhaps their goal has only been 1/2 achieved ! !

On my projects I always mapped a Start > Conclusion path, then explored & mitigated all the challenges along the way.

I can see that those responsible for Nancy’s disappearance followed a similar path in removing her from her house … But in not even understanding their ultimate goal, I don’t get a sense of it being brought to its Conclusion.

Is that where their plan came unstuck ? Did their ‘clever than you’ attitude come unstuck here because they f**ked up ?

Who knows, who ever knows - because individual behaviour is ‘individual’. It’s personal. .. the good thing is that allowances are made for our human failings and we get another chance ( often x over ) Once your head chopped off for a slight misdemeanour!

On the balance of all that I would think that the perp/s still have a small window in which to make good & to advise of Nancy’s whereabouts. ( I say ‘small’ because I think the feds are catching up 🙏)
 
  • #43,339
Got another TODAY scenario. (Ideas change daily.) What if NG was awake and heard a noise at the front door? She opens the door and is subdued. The culprit(s) go inside, find nothing of value, and when they return, they find NG either deceased or motionless. They decide to take her rather than chance a murder charge. This could make sense because we have not heard of signs of an inside house struggle or blood in the house but only on the front door outside area. Would NG actually open the door at that hour? Over-confidence in neighborhood safety? Over-confidence since no one had ever bothered her home? I think it's possible, but, then, it seems anything is possible in this case.
I do think an 84 year old woman could be tricked into opening the front door. And a punch in the face when she opens the door would explain all the blood there.

But the family and friends would have a better handle on the possibility of her opening the front door in the middle of the night. Even to a person feigning distress. We would have to interview the family/friends to make a better determination.

Home invasion resulting in the death of the home owner could cause the robbers to take the body to avoid facing severe charges.

But I think the sheriff said he thought NG had been up and out of bed in the house when she was taken, going to the bathroom or in the kitchen. So perhaps there is evidence that she was removed from the interior of the home. Blood evidence in the home would tell us where she was initially injured.

LE has said nothing was taken, but in the even of a sudden death, perhaps robbers aborted the robbery.

I have a list of theories based on evidence, and I move them up and down according to probability as more data comes it. I admit the robbery theory is moving lower on the list as each day goes by.
 
  • #43,340
View attachment 650797Remember Derrick Callella - the guy arrested in Cali for texting and calling AG/TC about whether they’d gotten the bitcoin. Has he been cleared? I went down a dark rabbit hole on his public Instagram and found photos he posted wearing a ski mask that looks eerily similar. Something is odd here. See here: Secret Mutilator on Instagram: "Bringing the boat and performing a handful of shows in April w/ @distress_mistress // 4/16 Empty Bottle-Chicago 4/20 Holland Project-Reno 4/23 Bar Sinister-LA 4/25 Cold Brew-Laredo TX 4/27 Chess Club-Austin TX"

There’s an April 5, 2023 post that is also very concerning, too gross to post here. Am I reading too much into this?

Mods: I hope I didn’t break any rules posting. He’s been formally charged federally.

I haven't forgotten about him. I don't think the FBI has either. Thankfully.
"Secret Mutilator".
He is the Elephant in the room. Those texts/phone call.
He has ties to Tucson. Has played there.
These satanic bands all have a link IMO.
Dig deeper and you will see. IMO.
 
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