GUILTY NC - Deah Barakat, 23, his wife & her sister murdered, Chapel Hill, 10 Feb 2015

[liljim]

This all misses the point entirely imo, but perfectly encapsulates why so many people are angry about this case and why it exploded on social media. Hate crime laws are designed to protect minorities in our society, but often our institutions fail to enforce them as they were intended, ironically because of the same reasons the laws were created for in the first place. Attribution, prejudice, bias, etc. can all turn minor disputes into violent confrontations. We disagree with people all of the time, even the people we love the most, but because we love them, or they are similar to us, our well-being is linked to their well-being, and disagreements are more often than not resolved peacefully. But when human beings get angry, or they are suffering from failures in their lives that they would like to attribute to external causes, often people will look towards minorities who are different than them to take out their own pent-up frustration. That is how entire ethnic and religious groups, sexes, etc. can become targets for violence.

Unfortunately, the statutes are not enforced as they should be (as alluded to by another poster with another case earlier in this thread) -- likewise because of bias. Bigoted LE and DAs and media don't like to put people on trial for the same prejudices they harbor themselves. By the way, most LE and DAs are professional and serve the public well, but sometimes even if they want to press hate crimes charges in a case, they might not because they fear the political backlash that could follow. Irrespective of the circumstances involved in this case, the statutes are often not used as they should be and minorities, victims rights advocates, family members, etc. are tired of it.

That's why it's important to understand that one mustn't wake up one morning and decide to go kill [....] for it to be a hate crime. All it takes is prejudice to cause what would otherwise be a non-criminal disagreement to escalate into something violent. Which may or may not have happened, here, although I certainly suspect that it did.

im not missing your point, and its not that i dont understand - i just disagree and have not seen any evidence to prove your suspicions. if some evidence becomes known then as i have said my opinion may change.

that will be my last reply on this as we will inevitably end up walking the line of what they have asked us not to discuss.

 

[Curious Guy]

This all misses the point entirely imo, but perfectly encapsulates why so many people are angry about this case and why it exploded on social media. Hate crime laws are designed to protect minorities in our society, but often our institutions fail to enforce them as they were intended, ironically because of the same reasons the laws were created for in the first place. Attribution, prejudice, bias, etc. can all turn minor disputes into violent confrontations. We disagree with people all of the time, even the people we love the most, but because we love them, or they are similar to us, our well-being is linked to their well-being, and disagreements are more often than not resolved peacefully. But when human beings get angry, or they are suffering from failures in their lives that they would like to attribute to external causes, often people will look towards minorities who are different than them to take out their own pent-up frustration. That is how entire ethnic and religious groups, sexes, etc. can become targets for violence.

Unfortunately, the statutes are not enforced as they should be (as alluded to by another poster with another case earlier in this thread) -- likewise because of bias. Bigoted LE and DAs and media don't like to put people on trial for the same prejudices they harbor themselves. By the way, most LE and DAs are professional and serve the public well, but sometimes even if they want to press hate crimes charges in a case, they might not because they fear the political backlash that could follow. Irrespective of the circumstances involved in this case, the statutes are often not used as they should be and minorities, victims rights advocates, family members, etc. are tired of it.

That's why it's important to understand that one mustn't wake up one morning and decide to go kill [....] for it to be a hate crime. All it takes is prejudice to cause what would otherwise be a non-criminal disagreement to escalate into something violent. Which may or may not have happened, here, although I certainly suspect that it did.

What evidence is there that this <mod snip> was anti-Muslim?. What I'm observing is people trying to make this something it is not for their own reasons, whatever those may be.

 

[katydid23]

He killed them because they 'disrespected him' and parked in his all important parking spot. He is a nutjob hot head. And he does hate organized religion, but I don't think he killed them because they were Muslim. He would have shot a Christian or a Jew if they had parked in his spot as well, imo.

If he was just looking to kill Muslims he would have gone to a Temple and shot indiscriminately. jmo :cow:

 

[Ven]

What evidence is there that this idiot was anti-Muslim?. What I'm observing is people trying to make this something it is not for their own reasons, whatever those may be.

He was anti-religion. Not just atheist, but he was a self-described militant anti-theist. He posted insulting remarks over and over again about religious people on his social media pages, and explicitly said it was his duty to insult religious people at every opportunity. These girls, being Muslims, wore head coverings and their religion would have been visible in a way that other people's beliefs are not always visible. The very thing he hated was right there in front of his face at a time that he became angry. That is the definition of a hate crime, that if it had been a run-in with any other person, whom he could not have told apart from anyone else, except they were parking in his spot, he might have just called the tow company, or shouted, or whatever. And nobody would have died, as happened many other times apparently.

But not this time. This time it was a girl wearing a hijab who parked in his space. And his hatred for their religion caused him to act out in a way that he previously had not acted out towards other people doing the same thing. What other explanation is there? That he argued with people many times about parking spaces, but the one and only time he decided to commit murder, it was against visibly apparent Muslims? I'm sure it's just a coincidence, right? Now you know why Muslim Americans take this case so seriously, and people who agree with them, and the case has gone viral. Because why should Muslim Americans have to worry that they might be at elevated risk for violence because of who they are? Should a Muslim girl wearing a head covering go about her day in fear, that if she parks in the wrong space, or accidentally bumps into someone at the grocery store, that the person might pull out a gun and shoot her? Should she have to live in a society where she is at greater risk for small arguments to turn violent?

 

[katydid23]

He was anti-religion. Not just atheist, but he was a self-described militant anti-theist. He posted insulting remarks over and over again about religious people on his social media pages, and explicitly said it was his duty to insult religious people at every opportunity. These girls, being Muslims, wore head coverings and their religion would have been visible in a way that other people's beliefs are not always visible. The very thing he hated was right there in front of his face at a time that he became angry. That is the definition of a hate crime, that if it had been a run-in with any other person, whom he could not have told apart from anyone else, except they were parking in his spot, he might have just called the tow company, or shouted, or whatever. And nobody would have died, as happened many other times apparently.

But not this time. This time it was a girl wearing a hijab who parked in his space. And his hatred for their religion caused him to act out in a way that he previously had not acted out towards other people doing the same thing. What other explanation is there? That he argued with people many times about parking spaces, but the one and only time he decided to commit murder, it was against visibly apparent Muslims? I'm sure it's just a coincidence, right? Now you know why Muslim Americans take this case so seriously, and people who agree with them, and the case has gone viral. Because why should Muslim Americans have to worry that they might be at elevated risk for violence because of who they are? Should they go about their day in fear, that if they park in the wrong space, or accidentally bump into someone at the grocery store, that the person might pull out a gun and shoot them? Should they have to live in a society where they are at greater risk for small arguments to turn violent than anyone else?

He has been arguing with them about the parking spot for awhile. If it was just about them being Muslim, he would have killed them already. The trigger was that they parked in the spot that he claimed as his. It was not that they were Muslim, it was that they parked in 'his' spot. If it were about being Muslim he would have shot them awhile ago, or gone to an Arab Market and opened fire, jmo.

 

[katydid23]

He was anti-religion. Not just atheist, but he was a self-described militant anti-theist. He posted insulting remarks over and over again about religious people on his social media pages, and explicitly said it was his duty to insult religious people at every opportunity. These girls, being Muslims, wore head coverings and their religion would have been visible in a way that other people's beliefs are not always visible. The very thing he hated was right there in front of his face at a time that he became angry. That is the definition of a hate crime, that if it had been a run-in with any other person, whom he could not have told apart from anyone else, except they were parking in his spot, he might have just called the tow company, or shouted, or whatever. And nobody would have died, as happened many other times apparently.

But not this time. This time it was a girl wearing a hijab who parked in his space. And his hatred for their religion caused him to act out in a way that he previously had not acted out towards other people doing the same thing. What other explanation is there? That he argued with people many times about parking spaces, but the one and only time he decided to commit murder, it was against visibly apparent Muslims? I'm sure it's just a coincidence, right? Now you know why Muslim Americans take this case so seriously, and people who agree with them, and the case has gone viral. Because why should Muslim Americans have to worry that they might be at elevated risk for violence because of who they are? Should a Muslim girl wearing a head covering go about her day in fear, that if she parks in the wrong space, or accidentally bumps into someone at the grocery store, that the person might pull out a gun and shoot her? Should she have to live in a society where she is at greater risk for small arguments to turn violent?

BBM

He could no longer call the tow company because they 'banned' him. He was CRAZY.

And that is quite a jump to make, that now if a girl wearing a hijab bumps into someone that person is going to shoot her? What a leap.

 

[Ven]

He has been arguing with them about the parking spot for awhile. If it was just about them being Muslim, he would have killed them already. The trigger was that they parked in the spot that he claimed as his. It was not that they were Muslim, it was that they parked in 'his' spot. If it were about being Muslim he would have shot them awhile ago, or gone to an Arab Market and opened fire, jmo.

To my knowledge, based on reading the news reports, he had been arguing with everyone in the neighborhood about parking spaces for awhile. He didn't kill those people. He killed these three. Why them? The 23 year old male victim, Deah, was living in the apartment with another male roommate until his wedding at the end of December. At that point, the male roommate moved out and the wife moved in. The two Muslim girls and their head coverings would have come into the picture only in the last 1 month. I don't even know if the 19 year old sister had ever encountered Craig Hicks before, she was the only one with a car and was just visiting at the time of the murders.

Clearly, this situation escalated much more than previous altercations. What was the trigger? Some people are quick to dismiss it was just a blown fuse, could have been anyone. Other people feel that, based on the victims visible religious beliefs and the suspect's hate filled social media rants, it was undoubtedly a hate crime. Which was it? Unfortunately, whether this was a hate crime or not, the media rarely reports on the abduction or killing of minorities, whereas white children and pretty white teens get gobs of attention (nothing wrong with that, I wish ALL victims and their families could get widespread media attention). This story was only reported on nationally because it was trending #1 on twitter for a day. Some people were angry about the lack of media attention, how media outlets are quick to brand Muslims as terrorists, but when innocent ones are living their lives in peace or the victims of foul play, nobody is interested.

And what is an "Arab Market", by the way?

 

[Ven]

And that is quite a jump to make, that now if a girl wearing a hijab bumps into someone that person is going to shoot her? What a leap.

Why is that quite a leap? In this very case, a girl wearing a hijab was murdered execution style, along with her sister and brother-in-law ... all because she may or may not have parked in the wrong parking space. What an offense!

There's no place in our society for people to have to live in fear, that because of their skin color, or clothing they wear (in this case religious clothing), that they might be at heightened risk for violent acts because of who they are.

 

[katydid23]

To my knowledge, based on reading the news reports, he had been arguing with everyone in the neighborhood about parking spaces for awhile. He didn't kill those people. He killed these three. Why them? The 23 year old male victim, Deah, was living in the apartment with another male roommate until his wedding at the end of December. At that point, the male roommate moved out and the wife moved in. The two Muslim girls and their head coverings would have come into the picture only in the last 1 month. I don't even know if the 19 year old sister had ever encountered Craig Hicks before, she was the only one with a car and was just visiting at the time of the murders.

Clearly, this situation escalated much more than previous altercations. What was the trigger? Some people are quick to dismiss it was just a blown fuse, could have been anyone. Other people feel that, based on the victims visible religious beliefs and the suspect's hate filled social media rants, it was undoubtedly a hate crime. Which was it? Unfortunately, whether this was a hate crime or not, the media rarely reports on the abduction or killing of minorities, whereas white children and pretty white teens get gobs of attention (nothing wrong with that, I wish ALL victims and their families could get widespread media attention). This story was only reported on nationally because it was trending #1 on twitter for a day. Some people were angry about the lack of media attention, how media outlets are quick to brand Muslims as terrorists, but when innocent ones are living their lives in peace or the victims of foul play, nobody is interested.

And what is an "Arab Market", by the way?

You don't know what an Arab Market is? A store that sells 'Halal' products, acceptable to Muslim standards. For example:

Altayebat Market
48 reviews
$ Grocery, Halal, Fruits & Veggies

"..worth it. And their Persian cucumbers are actually fresh and crisp, unlike of the the Persian markets that I've been to. Irony. Their breads are fresh.."


I just used that as an example because if his goal was to shoot Muslims, then he could have driven past a Muslim Market and shot many, randomly, all at once. But he did not do that. He was angry specifically, at these neighbors over an ongoing dispute.

The trigger seemed to be that one of the kids parked in what he considered as 'his' space, once again. The trigger was not their head scarves, imo. It was his irrational anger over the parking spot.

And I disagree with you that media are quick to brand Muslims as terrorists. We have had Muslims that behead co-workers while shouting AllA Akbar, and they were still labeled as 'workplace disputes' for quite sometime.

 

[katydid23]

Why is that quite a leap? In this very case, a girl wearing a hijab was murdered execution style, along with her sister and brother-in-law ... all because she may or may not have parked in the wrong parking space. What an offense!

There's no place in our society for people to have to live in fear, that because of their skin color, or clothing they wear (in this case religious clothing), that they might be at heightened risk for violent acts because of who they are.

The 'leap' is that assumption that they were shot because of their religious clothing. If that were the case, he could have shot many more Muslims by driving past a market or a Temple and picking off a crowd. But he did not do that. The anger he harbored was about the parking spot. Not the head scarves. JMO

I have seen other murders over parking disputes. It is actually more common than you might think.

 

[Ven]

We have had Muslims that behead co-workers while shouting AllA Akbar

Really? When was the last time Muslim Americans beheaded co-workers and shouted Alla Akbar in this country? I must have missed it. I suspect it would have been all over the news if it had happened.

Might you be projecting the actions of radical Muslims living in an unstable political environment thousands of miles away, onto law abiding peaceful Muslim Americans living in our society?

 

[Wyle_E_Coyote]

Really? When was the last time Muslim Americans beheaded co-workers and shouted Alla Akbar in this country? I must have missed it. I suspect it would have been all over the news if it had happened.

Might you be projecting the actions of radical Muslims living in an unstable political environment thousands of miles away, onto law abiding peaceful Muslim Americans living in our society?

Yes, you must have missed it. And yes, it was all over the news.

http://nypost.com/2014/09/26/woman-beheaded-by-co-worker-in-oklahoma/

http://www.cnn.com/2014/09/28/us/oklahoma-beheading/


Sent from my KFJWA using Tapatalk

 

[Ven]

Yes, you must have missed it. And yes, it was all over the news.

http://nypost.com/2014/09/26/woman-beheaded-by-co-worker-in-oklahoma/

http://www.cnn.com/2014/09/28/us/oklahoma-beheading/


Sent from my KFJWA using Tapatalk

Yeah, I did miss that. Still from what I gather, that person was not a law-abiding citizen to begin with. He had a lengthy criminal record for many years before he "converted" religions. The media articles you linked use the words terrorist over and over again, and as always Muslim American groups are forced to trot out and apologize, as a group, for the crimes committed by a deranged madman. Part of the backlash in this case is the inherent double standard that exists. When Muslim Americans are innocent victims, their stories are not told. And when they are, as in this case, most people would LOVE to explain the cause away as just a dispute over a parking spot and nothing more. There are a lot of people in this country who are prejudiced against minority groups, and while they agree that killing minorities goes too far, and they support the murderer being put on trial for that ... murder .... they don't want their own bigoted beliefs put on trial. And if someone is a peaceful, law abiding atheist, as most are, they certainly don't want their beliefs falsely associated with this deranged killer.

 

[fran]

Attention Please!

Once again I am going to remind you, religion and politics have nothing to do with this case, contrary to what some news agencies want to make the situation, at least by LE statements.

IF and UNTIL LE comes out and says this was a hate crime, the subject cannot be discussed here. IF LE comes out stating religion had a part in this crime, administration will rethink their position.

Further posts blaming religion or bringing up politics will be removed.

tia
fran
:seeya:

 

[Yoda]

These three students were beautiful souls. The more I learn about them, the more I wish that they will be remembered for the amazing individuals they were and not for just what their religion was. JMO

 

[njnewb]

The victim's sister said on MSNBC that neither the couple or the sister were parked in the visitor spot that the neighbor had claimed as his spot on the night of the shooting. She said that they in fact avoided parking there and told friends and family to use the other visitor spots because of the past issues.

Horrific, may they RIP. They seemed like great kids and only babies in the real world, really.

 

[Yoda]

Makeshift memorial for Razan at NC State's College of Design.

 

[OkieGranny]

http://mashable.com/2015/02/13/brother-of-slain-students-opens-up/

When Yousef Abu-Salha and his youngest sister Razan Mohammad Abu-Salha were just kids, they'd team up against their sister Yusor Mohammad Abu-Salha, the middle child, teasing her until she charged at them and they'd scamper away, laughing.

That memory stands out, he told Mashable. Yousef also remembers helping a friend beat a Pokemon Game Boy game in 4th grade. That friend was named Deah Barakat. Yousef didn't know then that Deah would grow up to marry Yusor and become his brother-in-law...

"I told her she got lucky, because he was literally the only guy I would approve of," Yousef said.

 

[njnewb]

http://www.whitehouse.gov/the-press-office/2015/02/13/statement-president

Statement by the President

Yesterday, the FBI opened an inquiry into the brutal and outrageous murders of Yusor Mohammad Abu-Salha, Deah Shaddy Barakat, and Razan Mohammad Abu-Salha in Chapel Hill, North Carolina. In addition to the ongoing investigation by local authorities, the FBI is taking steps to determine whether federal laws were violated. No one in the United States of America should ever be targeted because of who they are, what they look like, or how they worship. Michelle and I offer our condolences to the victims&#8217; loved ones. As we saw with the overwhelming presence at the funeral of these young Americans, we are all one American family. Whenever anyone is taken from us before their time, we remember how they lived their lives &#8211; and the words of one of the victims should inspire the way we live ours.

&#8220;Growing up in America has been such a blessing,&#8221; Yusor said recently. &#8220;It doesn&#8217;t matter where you come from. There&#8217;s so many different people from so many different places, of different backgrounds and religions &#8211; but here, we&#8217;re all one.&#8221;

 

[Boodles]

— Investigators seized more than a dozen firearms and a cache of ammunition from the Chapel Hill home of a man charged with killing three students this week, according to search warrants released Friday...

Hicks' charges could go before a Durham County grand jury as early as Monday, but prosecutors said they haven't decided yet whether to pursue the death penalty.
Read more at http://www.wral.com/14-firearms-sei...-suspect-s-home/14445302/#Wo3THAGDdh4RZEcQ.99