GUILTY NC - Keith Scott, 43, killed by LEO, Charlotte, 20 Sept 2016 #2

[Rocco]

It does not matter if he was able to process the info or not. He had a loaded, cocked weapon. That is all the cops needed to know. It is very sad if he died because he did not understand the meaning of the words " Drop the freakin GUN!' But given that he was in a car, with a weapon, at a school bus stop, the police had to intervene.

Since he was picking up an 8 yr old, I assume he had some mental proficiency in order to be a caretaker.

A weapon he could have left in the vehicle when he exited.

 

[Rocco]

rsbm

Thank you. The difference is so much easier with a visual. Guy with a gun who isn't a threat vs. Guy with a gun who wants to shoot you.

A guy who gets out of his vehicle with a gun when he's surrounded by police IS a threat.

 

[bluesneakers]

This isn't minority report, we don't execute based on what someone might do.

Apparently we do, though I think we often get it wrong.

 

[Irish_Eyes]

This is what I've been able to piece together from this case. It definitely leaves me with some questions. I am not in ANY way condoning the spreading of false narratives, smearing of officers, rioting before any facts are known, or any other act of violence or intimidation.

I am not going to rehash the facts you all know, and especially the ones not in dispute. However, early in the investigation the police made mention of Scott leaving his car, then returning to his car, prior to their confronting him. I am wondering if this is possibly when they observed his weapon. I have heard unsubstantiated rumors that he had possibly gotten out of the car because he asked his wife to bring him his cell phone charger. I know his daughter said he was reading "a book," and some have said the Koran, but to me it is possible that was just a mis-statement and he was reading on his phone - I do it all the time. That would make sense as to why he needed the charger, if that is in fact what happened.

I have watched the tapes, as I am sure all of you have. I cannot tell if he has something in his hand or not. When he is on the ground it does sound like the one officer says something about "he's holding it" and "right hand" and then another says "I have the gun." That would support the idea that it was in his hand. On the other hand, that one picture that shows the gun on the ground, where the officer later seems to be standing over it, in that picture, the gun is very near where the ankle holster would have been. It would make sense if removing something from an ankle holster that is where it might end up.

It also looks to me like the officer who shot was positioned somewhere to the left of the car that shot the dashcam footage. I think that is significant in that it is possible that he would have been closer to Mr. Scott than it looks like we are when we watch the video. I think that is significant in thinking about what the level of perceived threat would have been for a "reasonable" officer in that situation, which is the legal standard.

My concern is that the careful wording used in the police statement is "armed with a handgun." They use those specific words twice. I am not sure whether or not that means had it in his hand, or just had it in his posession, as in maybe holstered. He still should have complied when asked to disarm. But I would have liked more specific wording. I am also concerned about the marijuana and whether the officers really knew about that before or after the fact. Maybe they did but there is also the possibility that they didn't and just got a lucky break afterwards. There is also a point after the shooting when the guy who seems like the "lead" officer asks (I think) the one kneeling across from him "Are you on?" and the other says "I don't know." Either both of those guys weren't on, or we haven't seen their footage yet, but I wonder why he asked about it. Too many questions still for me to say I know what happened.

Apparently there was a shooting of an unarmed black man in El Cajon today and that story is picking up some steam. The man is said to have been acting erratically. However, his sister is on video and clearly distraught saying she is actually the one who called officers to come and help him because he wasn't acting right. I have seen on Twitter that he was epileptic, although I did not hear the sister say that, and I know it's hard sometimes to sort out fact from rumor in these cases. Still, this seems pretty troubling to me, as the police confirm he was unarmed, and they were called out to help him. I wish sometimes that the activists would not just react on purely racial grounds, but would hold their fire (bad choice of words, I know), for those cases, regardless of race, that are clearly problematic. The El Cajon case looks like it may well turn out to be one of those.

 

[katydid23]

Personally, I'm not sure how anyone believes he had time to even react to the demands of officers. It was a matter of a couple seconds from the time he exited to when he was down. 2-3 maybe. How fast can anyone react if they're confused, possibly have slow reaction time due to TBI, and being screamed at from multiple directions?

JMO

He was sitting inside the car for quite awhile, and they were telling him to put the gun down. He could have done so. He did not need to get out with the gun in his hand at all.

Maybe he did have a problem processing commands. But that is not on the cops. This man had a weapon and was given many chances over a long period of time to drop it. It was not just a matter of seconds. He got out of the car, got back in for awhile, then got out again.

 

[K_Z]

It all boils down to one simple fact-- at least 14 times he was lawfully ordered to drop the gun.

At least 14 times, he did not comply, over more than 1 minute, before he escalated his threat. The officers showed remarkable restraint, IMO. They gave him multiple, ongoing opportunities to drop the gun, until the threat was potentially lethal for them, or bystanders.

How do we know KS escalated the situation? From the multiple videos, and from the escalating tone of the officers commanding him to drop the gun, and the escalating panic in his wife's pleading with him to "don't do it, Keith, don't do it!!".His own wife's commentary is very damning for his escalation, IMO. She knew, IMO. She knew he had a gun, and what he would do with it.

This can't be blamed on predatory cops, or a motorcycle accident. He was very, very functional, even driving a car, and loading and carrying an illegal stolen gun. He *knew* what he was doing, IMO.

I completely reject that he was so "damaged" by his TBI that he couldn't comprehend that he needed to drop the gun. His actions, IMO, don't show a man confused or frightened. His actions show defiance, and consciousness of guilt, IMO. Criminality, not confusion. IMO.

 

[Rocco]

His brain functioning is not like ours. Its like asking an ambutee to go get a gold medal!!

He complied, to the best of his ability. He got out of the car - it took him time to process- two different demands were being screamed at him by 4 different officers and voices from 4 locations

If his brain told him to take the loaded and cocked gun with him when he got out of the vehicle, he must have had a reason to do it. What do you suppose that reason was if he didn't intend on shooting it? No one would have been screaming at him to drop it if he didn't take it with him in the first place.

 

[katydid23]

rsbm

Thank you. The difference is so much easier with a visual. Guy with a gun who isn't a threat vs. Guy with a gun who wants to shoot you.

They are BOTH threats/

The guy pointing a weapon---he'd be shot by every officer multiple times, instantly.

The guy with the loaded, cocked gun, who refused to drop it, after being told dozens of times to do so, ----he would have quite awhile to resist and be non-compliant---but eventually someone is going to think he is going to shoot. And they have the legal right to act upon that belief if there is valid evidence for it.

Someone with their gun at their side can shoot it from that position with just a twist of their wrist. And they can lift it and point in half a second.

 

[bluesneakers]

They are BOTH threats/

The guy pointing a weapon---he'd be shot by every officer multiple times, instantly.

The guy with the loaded, cocked gun, who refused to drop it, after being told dozens of times to do so, ----he would have quite awhile to resist and be non-compliant---but eventually someone is going to think he is going to shoot. And they have the legal right to act upon that belief if there is valid evidence for it.

Someone with their gun at their side can shoot it from that position with just a twist of their wrist. And they can lift it and point in half a second.

But this man is NOT a threat:

http://media.10news.com/photo/2014/...ing4_1407366747307_7249709_ver1.0_640_480.jpg

 

[bluesneakers]

Apparently there was a shooting of an unarmed black man in El Cajon today and that story is picking up some steam.

rsbm

El Cajon:

http://www.nbcsandiego.com/news/local/Officer-Involved-Shooting-in-El-Cajon-395014341.html

 

[Wysteria]

Sounds like your everyday . Still changes nothing. The question is.. Was he an immediate threat in the moment he was shot and killed?

Huh?
This abuser of children and woman sounds like your everyday ****bag?
I'm completely flabbergasted.

If anyone on the face of this earth shot and killed the lunatic other than LE...never mind not worth getting into trouble here.

 

[katydid23]

But this man is NOT a threat:

http://media.10news.com/photo/2014/...ing4_1407366747307_7249709_ver1.0_640_480.jpg

What do you mean he is not a threat? The cops shot this man in Mission Bay. Here are pictures of his body:

http://www.nbcsandiego.com/news/loc...ove-Officer-Involved-Shooting-270205811.html#

Officer-Involved Shooting in Mission Bay

San Diego police shoot gun-waving man


San Diego police Wednesday shot and wounded a gun-waving man who may have wanted to commit "suicide by cop."

The late-morning incident in the De Anza Cove Park area of Mission Bay occurred after police responded to a call about a man sitting in a car with a gun.

By the time police arrived, the man - barefoot and wearing a tank top and walking shorts - was outside his vehicle, pointing the gun in various directions, including at a police helicopter overhead.

He refused repeated orders to drop the weapon, police said.

 

[katydid23]

The man in the above picture had a very different story than the Charlotte case:

http://www.10news.com/news/man-shot-by-police-at-mission-bay-park-sentenced-062215


Tamyo called police from the 2800 block of North Mission Bay Drive shortly after 11 a.m. last Aug. 6 and told dispatchers that he was going to shoot himself, according to San Diego police Sgt. Manuel Del Toro.

Officers arrived to find Tamyo sitting in his car in a parking area near De Anza Cove. They called him on his cellphone and spoke with him for about 15 minutes before he agreed to surrender, Del Toro said.


Tamyo then got out of his car but returned and grabbed a loaded 9 mm pistol. He "pointed his gun recklessly at various people in the park," at a police helicopter overhead and at the nearby officers, prompting Officer Michael Weaver to shoot the suspect in the stomach, the sergeant said.

An investigation determined that the ammunition Tamyo was trying to use would not fire from his gun, said Deputy District Attorney Michael Runyon.

 

[CARIIS]

[h=1]AP: Across US, police officers abuse confidential databases[/h]
http://www.usatoday.com/videos/news/nation/2016/09/28/91206856/

 

[ohreally]

I believe he knew exactly what he was doing. My understanding is there was at least one officer on the other side of his vehicle and we can see where the other two are taking position behind the truck. IMO he had a plan. He was thinking. Its my opinion that his intent may not of been to shoot an officer as he knew once he fired a shot there were other officers to take him out. I believe he was planning a route of escape. Watch the video he walks backwards between the officers. He was shot just steps away being his best chance of running.
We don't know what he would of done if he could of escaped. Would of he shot anyone trying to stop him? How close was he to any witnesses that he may of been able to use as a shield?
Don't the lives of those that were witness to this count? Should the officer really risk thier lives over a known felon with a cocked and loaded gun that at any second could fire the weapon killing an innocent person?

 

[Deleted member 39678]

Scott's TBI doesn't explain all of violent crimminal activities he did before his motorcycle accident. His prior acts do show a propensity to act in a violent way. He was a danger to public with that gun in his hand. The police prevented him from harming anyone with that stolen gun. They should be commended and not vilified. JMO

 

[CARIIS]

But this man is NOT a threat:

http://media.10news.com/photo/2014/...ing4_1407366747307_7249709_ver1.0_640_480.jpg

Heck ---a caucasian man chewing and dining on another human is taken into custudy alive!!

L

 

[CARIIS]

rsbm

El Cajon:

http://www.nbcsandiego.com/news/local/Officer-Involved-Shooting-in-El-Cajon-395014341.html

I started a thread cause it appears the real headline here is gonna evolve into:

"30 Year Old Black Schizophrenic Shot Five Times For Having Something in His Pocket -Has Passed"


moo



http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?317861-Man-Killed-in-El-Cajon-Officer-Involved-Shooting-Pulled-Object-From-Pants

 

[Caffeine]

Heck ---a caucasian man chewing and dining on another human is taken into custudy alive!!

L

Probably due to the fact that chewing someone's face while they lay on the ground entails the attacker being on top of his victim face to face...not an ideal shooting target.

 

[oceanblueeyes]

But this man is NOT a threat:

http://media.10news.com/photo/2014/...ing4_1407366747307_7249709_ver1.0_640_480.jpg

No, he isn't a threat anymore to anyone. LE shot him, rightly so. Just like anyone else is likely to be shot who refuses to putdown a lethal firearm and refuses to adhere to the police officer's simple commands.

He is probably among the hundreds of white males who are shot or killed every year that most never hear a word about except in local and state news articles. That is strange, since they occur more often than in any other race. Maybe one of the many differences why they go grossly unreported in the national news is they don't have as many video clips available of whites being shot and killed by police officers.

Some seem to rely solely on video footage or early statements by witnesses instead of the totality of the entire evidence and circumstances surrounding each and every case. I don't know of one trial where the DA or even the defense relies solely on short clips of video footage to prove the case. It is always based on the totality of the circumstances leading up to the act and what happened during. They look at the entire overall picture and not a very short snip in time shown on a video.

However; it certainly never means just because they didn't have the shooting being video taped by bystanders at the time that the suspect isn't just as dead and died due to his/her own failure to comply to simple commands to put their lethal firearm down. It seems now imo, we have become a video crazed society and its like if its not on video it really isn't happening when of course it IS happening.

In fact I think all of these short snippets of videos showing shootings by police officer are often misinterpreted and often people see what they are determined to see what they want to see. There is no way of showing all the evidence and circumstances by just short videos and some of these videos that have been shown were already after the shooting had occurred further causing gross misinterpretations. They are very misleading and often lead to false narratives immediately being told which only incites unnecessary and uncalled for violence many times.