GUILTY NC - Keith Scott, 43, killed by LEO, Charlotte, 20 Sept 2016 #2

[katydid23]

He didn't start walking away. He was backing away. Whether that was to open fire or to lie on the ground, we have no way of knowing.

YES, exactly. I totally agree. Whether he was about to open fire or lie down, they had no way to be certain. And that is sad because if he had just dropped the gun it could have all been over with.

They did not know if he was about to open fire or not, but they feared for their safety and the safety of others because of the imminent threat. He seemed to be ready to fire because he refused a dozen commands to drop his weapon.

 

[drjones]

He didn't start walking away. He was backing away. Whether that was to open fire or to lie on the ground, we have no way of knowing.

i didnt say "walking away", i said "walking". which he did. he used his feet to ambulate. forward, backward, sideways... all the same thing.

doesnt matter why, and i dont see the need to speculate that he may have been doing so to find a better spot to surrender. does not seem logical to me.

 

[CARIIS]

he ignored their order to put the weapon down for over a full minute, not a "few seconds", during that time he got out of his car and started walking. it may have been much longer than a minute - but we dont know exactly how long since the videos all start during the encounter.

If we changed he ignored to " he did not understand" makes it really tragic huh?

 

[Tawny]

Who is a schizophrenic? How is that relevant here?

And NO, if you shoot someone in the leg they will not always fall. This is not a tv show. Plenty of shooters have been wounded a few times and kept shooting.

And YES, they are trained in deescalation. I am sure they tried those techniques at the very start of this incident. But sometimes a person is not going to listen or cooperate. They make their own decisions at that point.

And we are in an Iraq war her in the US. We have more shootings in Chicago in one weekend than they have in months there.

Multiple officers running up to a vehicle screaming demands with guns drawn is the literal opposite of "deescalation".

Because it always becomes an issue for some weird reason in every case where a black is shot. It is like some want to really believe whites are never shot and killed when they fail to comply and are the aggressors with a firearm. I just think the entire truth needs to be told instead of being constantly suppressed like whites never get shot and killed when it couldn't be further from the truth. Why not lay the entire truth out there. With truth comes knowledge, imo.

bbm

 

[CARIIS]

i didnt say "walking away", i said "walking". which he did. he used his feet to ambulate. forward, backward, sideways... all the same thing.

doesnt matter why, and i dont see the need to speculate that he may have been doing so to find a better spot to surrender. does not seem logical to me.

Cognitive impairment is rarely "logical" - that is the illiness !!

 

[katydid23]

I started a thread cause it appears the real headline here is gonna evolve into:

"30 Year Old Black Schizophrenic Shot Five Times For Having Something in His Pocket -Has Passed"


moo



http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?317861-Man-Killed-in-El-Cajon-Officer-Involved-Shooting-Pulled-Object-From-Pants

Have you seen the picture released on the news. He was standing in a firing stance, and pointing his 'pretend' weapon at the officers. He obviously knew they would think it was a gun. It was a tragic case of suicide by cop. The cops were victims too in this case. They were forced into shooting because of the way he pretended to be armed and aiming a weapon.

His sister called 911 three times that day, needing the police to 'deal with him.' They are not psych nurses. They should not be forced into these kinds of situations. They are a 'force' type of public service. They detain and investigate and arrest and search for the missing. They are not psych techs.

If a schizophrenic is set on 'suicide by cop', then there is not much the cops can do to avoid it, as long as the victim is very convincing. And looking at the pix the were released, this guy was very convincing. His own 30 yr old sister was tunable to deal with him or get him to cooperate. She called the police because she needed help getting him to a psych hold. If he does not want to go, it might get physical. That is the bind that the cops are in.

If it is so easy to 'de-escalate' --why couldn't his family get him to do so? Why call 911 3 times if it is something so easy to do? Because it is NOT EASY to do. And sometimes it goes very wrong.

 

[katydid23]

If we changed he ignored to " he did not understand" makes it really tragic huh?

Yes, it really does.

If he did not understand a simple command, like DROP THE GUN---then why was he driving an SUV, and picking his 8 yr old boy up from bus stop? Was he really so debilitated that he could not process a simple 3 word command?

He could roll a blunt, and drive a car. And read the Quran. So why couldn't he process a 3 word command?

 

[CARIIS]

Probably due to the fact that chewing someone's face while they lay on the ground entails the attacker being on top of his victim face to face...not an ideal shooting target.

It is facincating - my take would be someone with a toy truck might warrent some evaluation time, a person with someones cheek hanging out of their mouth might indicate "danger"!

He was white, in an affluent area - the music changes.......................moo

 

[Tawny]

Did they SEE a weapon?

 

[Ladylub]

If we changed he ignored to " he did not understand" makes it really tragic huh?

We can play the what if game with all of the facts that we know.
What if the gun loaded and cocked in his hands was to be used on the child he was picking up from the bus stop? He had threatened that same child the yr before before the TBI.
What if he simply put the gun on the dashboard got out the car hands raised?
What if he did not understand and shot and killed a police officer?

Police should not have to add the what if game before they use their weapon. While they are pondering the what ifs the threat had enough time to take action.

 

[katydid23]

Multiple officers running up to a vehicle screaming demands with guns drawn is the literal opposite of "deescalation".



bbm

We don't know that it started that way at all. It was probably one officer calling out to him at the beginning. We do not see the very start of the incident on tape. We see where they have more back up officers and are ramping up their force.

 

[drjones]

Cognitive impairment is rarely "logical" - that is the illiness !!

I'm not talking about the man who was shot seeming logical, by the way we still have very little information on his actual impairment...

I'm saying it does not seem logical to expect an officer to speculate that this man was preparing to surrender. Everything in that video suggests the exact opposite to me, this man appeared to be intent on having a confrontation, and that is what I would logically expect anyone in that situation to be thinking about his actions.

 

[human]

I really do not understand these posts about white people being shot or not shot. What does that have to do with THIS specific case.

This man was shot by a black police officer from North Carolina. He was not targeted by a racist white cop, if that is what these posts about white people is supposed to imply.

This felon was shot by a black officer because this man was holding a loaded stolen weapon, refused a dozen demands to drop the weapon, and began trying to step away from the scene, while armed and dangerous. He posed a threat to the officers and the public nearby.

His shooting was not racially motivated. So there is no need to post any more random cases about whites with guns....

Yeah. I post those about people not getting shot by LE when they have FIRED upon LE and it is labelled irrelevant. Whatever.

 

[drjones]

Did they SEE a weapon?

Yes, it has been reported since the story first broke. Multiple officers saw him with a weapon in his hands.

 

[human]

Because it always becomes an issue for some weird reason in every case where a black is shot. It is like some want to really believe whites are never shot and killed when they fail to comply and are the aggressors with a firearm. I just think the entire truth needs to be told instead of being constantly suppressed like whites never get shot and killed when it couldn't be further from the truth. Why not lay the entire truth out there. With truth comes knowledge, imo.

I was merely responding to the list you had posted as a counterpoint. Always good to see more documentation I feel.

 

[CARIIS]

A weapon he could have left in the vehicle when he exited.

I think a lot dont grasp how scared THEY are when there brain is not working

 

[katydid23]

Yeah. I post those about people not getting shot by LE when they have FIRED upon LE and it is labelled irrelevant. Whatever.

Every case is different.


But this particular case is one where a black officer shot an armed black man. So there is no need to compare this case to ones with white suspects, in my opinion. This was not a racial discrimination case.

 

[katydid23]

I think a lot dont grasp how scared THEY are when there brain is not working

And a lot of people don't grasp how stressed the officers are when they are trying to disarm a felon whose brain may not be working well. Are they supposed to take a bullet because the suspect was too scared to drop the gun?

 

[Elley Mae]

My point is that the impression seems to be that he had all the time in the world to react to their demands, yet IMHO, they gave him no time. They didn't give him time to shoot them, but they also didn't give him time to do the right thing, either. If they shot fast enough to prevent him from pulling a trigger, they also shot too fast for him to put the gun down. See what I mean?

Officers continued to yell “drop the gun” or some variation of it — at least 12 times in 38 seconds.

http://www.nytimes.com/2016/09/24/us/charlotte-keith-scott-shooting-video.html?_r=0


If my Mother had to tell me more then twice what to do I got walloped, (it was not abuse) 14 times he was told to drop the gun.

 

[Tawny]

Yes, it has been reported since the story first broke. Multiple officers saw him with a weapon in his hands.

Sorry for the confusion, should have quoted. That was in reference to another situation, the el Cajon man.

And a lot of people don't grasp how stressed the officers are when they are trying to disarm a felon whose brain may not be working well. Are they supposed to take a bullet because the suspect was too scared to drop the gun?

They are supposed to be trained to properly handle that particular brand of stress.