GUILTY NC - PFC Kelli Bordeaux, 23, Fayetteville, 14 April 2012 - #10

[Xavier]

Here's an older link....




MSNBC is reporting that her mom doesn't seem to thinks so. In fact, she says that the bar guy's words sound "off" to her about her daughter.

Johnna Henson said the bar guy said that when Kelly got spooked she told him, "No, no, no just let me out here," which was a short distance from her apartment.

That sounds more like the Army woman got spooked by the guy bringing her home, as probably many women have in the past, prompting her to tell him no three times and then ask to be let out of the vehicle rather than go another block with him.
Kelly might not have wanted him to know exactly which apartment was hers if that's why she got out of his car early. But it doesn't sound like she ever made it home anyway, as someone managed to abduct her in the span of minutes after she exited his vehicle and walked around the corner to her apartment.

How many predators do you think could have been lying in wait for the missing female soldier in that short of a distance--and that short of notice?

The odds of that happening happenstance are just astronomical. No wonder cops suspect the person that last saw someone before they went missing...or the disgruntled spouse.

Personal Note: And Holbert likely knew Kelli was home alone that morning..

 

[Tonto]

Kelly might not have wanted him to know exactly which apartment was hers if that's why she got out of his car early. But it doesn't sound like she ever made it home anyway, as someone managed to abduct her in the span of minutes after she exited his vehicle and walked around the corner to her apartment.

Nick also picked her up earlier in the evening to take her to Froggys, IIRC. The obvious question then would be: Did Kelli let him pick her up at her apartment/complex, or did she walk to the end of the road to be picked up? If the former, then it lends credence to the 'Nick is the likely perp' scenario. If the latter, then it lends credence to his version of events.

 

[Xavier]

BBM, I agree with you and please, I am not defending him on the sexual abuse charges. My point is, we don't really know what he did.

http://www.wral.com/news/local/story/103731/

But according to NC Laws:

http://www.chetson.com/felonies/north-carolina-sex-crimes-2/

"Indecent liberties" - A person guilty of taking indecent liberties with a child is at least 16 years old and, with the purpose of arousing or gratifying a sexual desire, takes or attempts to take an “indecent liberty” with or commits a “lewd or lascivious act” upon the body of a child under the age of 16 years old. In this case, the child must be at least 5 years younger than the defendant.

Indecent Liberties is a Class F felony carrying a maximum of 59 months in prison.

An indecent liberty may occur even if the defendant does not touch a child: for instance, if the defendant masturbates in the child’s presence or photographs the child nude in a sexually suggestive position.

"Serious injury" - the serious injury does not need to be physical. If the state can show a mental injury that extends for some time after the sexual act, that may be enough to show serious personal injury.

"First Degree Sexual Offense" - Finally, First Degree Sexual Offense is basically the same crime as First Degree Forcible Rape, except that the sexual act in “Rape” is vaginal, and the sexual act in “Sexual Offense” involves some other sexual act.

So yeah, this is bad, real bad, but did he just have the child undress while he masterbated? Still bad, but not brutally raped and beaten like some have speculated. The mother did not know anything happened until the child told her. Again, not defending him, but I would be more inclined to throw him to the wolves if it was recent, multiple offenses, or a brutal rape of an adult woman by him as an adult. I'm glad he was prosecuted and convicted and served his time (whether long enough or not, that's another debate), but his deserved label of "sex offender" can possibly be qualified. That's what I meant by a stupid act by a 16 yr. old, not saying it was OK or minimizing it in any way, and normal 16 year old boys wouldn't do this. If that was his only offense, 10 years ago, I have a hard time jumping to murder because of it.

ERRN--- I don't know the acts/behavior Holbert committed to that poor little girl.

I've read he masturbated in from of her...I've also read her beat her and she's in a wheelchair now.

Again, if you have his criminal report, post it..Thanks

 

[Xavier]

Nick also picked her up earlier in the evening to take her to Froggys, IIRC. The obvious question then would be: Did Kelli let him pick her up at her apartment/complex, or did she walk to the end of the road to be picked up? If the former, then it lends credence to the 'Nick is the likely perp' scenario. If the latter, then it lends credence to his version of events.

TONTO--- I've read Nick claims she did'nt want him to know where exactly she lived...

She probably met him somewhere far away from her home. Then again, can Nick's story's be trusted.? I'm not so sure... The only glimmer of respect for Nick that I have is he turned himself in as a registered sex offender(RSO)...and I'm wondering if he did this was because to give himself some credibility of being "responsible" in eyes of LE....Doing the right thing so it would make his alibi much more believable to LE. I'm just guessing.

I hope LE is really digging for information that they said Nick supplied them with. LE sounded pretty confident some new clues would surface soon.

 

[Xavier]

Don't get me wrong, being the last known person to be seen with someone is not determinative of guilt in and of itself, but, it is a big piece of a puzzle that should be looked at, weighed and considered. I'm pretty sure LE wants to determine who a missing person was known to be with in most all cases whether it turns out that person is responsible or not.

REEDUS-- Good points

WE don't know:

- Of any DNA in Nick's car

- Of the crime scene

-- A weapon

- If anyone saw Nick after he dropped Kelli off

- If LE has searched the Cape Fear River or construction sites or other areas besides the woods, pond

- If LE has voicemails, call, texts of Kelli's fears of being around Nick that night

- If Nick received any significant amounts of bank deposits in his account.
This goes to my theory of a possible accomplice who paid for Nick's silence

Lots of unanswered questions. All we seem to have for now, is LE believes Nick has more information.

 

[OldSteve]

Nick also picked her up earlier in the evening to take her to Froggys, IIRC. The obvious question then would be: Did Kelli let him pick her up at her apartment/complex, or did she walk to the end of the road to be picked up? If the former, then it lends credence to the 'Nick is the likely perp' scenario. If the latter, then it lends credence to his version of events.

BBM -
If so, I would think at that time she would have been sober enough to realize he used his car as his home, and I would think it would be smelly and messy - making me wonder why she would ride back to her apt with him later that night, unless by then she was under the influence enough not to care.

Strange, though, so this was the only person she could get a ride to and from FB's...

Also strange is that here she was going out drinking while hubby's away, and hubby thinks marriage is okay...

 

[lowes123]

He also picked her up, so she already knew what type of car he had.

 

[mikkismom]

Original offense for NH:
Cumberland County Teenager In Custody On Sexual Assault Charges
http://www.wral.com/news/local/story/103731/

"Holbert reportedly is a neighbor of the victim who regularly visits the victim's home. He faces numerous charges, including first-degree sex offense, indecent liberties with a child and assault inflicting serious injury."

 

[phantomthought]

Not looking for an unknown "witness" but an unknown perp, and I'm sure they ARE looking. What if this "last person to see her" was hanging around Froggy Bottoms waiting for her to leave?

And Mikkismon, I do agree NH was in jail like 7 years, point well taken. (Don't know how to double quote)

Then the police would want to find a witness that saw this "last person" around her apt. complex at the time NH said he dropped her off.Yet I have not seen anything that they ever have.I just do not believe LE would show so much interest in finding a witness that saw someone hanging around ramsey st.a hr. before she even she left the bar and show such little interest in finding a witness who could actually place this person at the time and place where she was attacked.

 

[Xavier]

Original offense for NH:
Cumberland County Teenager In Custody On Sexual Assault Charges
http://www.wral.com/news/local/story/103731/

"Holbert reportedly is a neighbor of the victim who regularly visits the victim's home. He faces numerous charges, including first-degree sex offense, indecent liberties with a child and assault inflicting serious injury."

Thanks MikiMom

Yes, Holbert is able to be violent and impulsive IMO.

FAYETTEVILLE, N.C. — A teenager was in the Cumberland County Jail Monday night on $100,000 bond Monday night, accused of sexually assaulting a 5-year-old girl.

Cumberland County deputies arrested 16-year-old Nicholas Holbert on Monday. Investigators said he assaulted the victim Sunday at her home.

Holbert reportedly is a neighbor of the victim who regularly visits the victim's home. He faces numerous charges, including first-degree sex offense, indecent liberties with a child and assault inflicting serious injury.

According to the Cumberland County Sheriff's Office, the assault was reported by the victim's mother after the victim disclosed to her mother details of the assault.

The mother of the victim was reportedly away from the home for a short period of time when the assault occurred.

Holbert is awaiting a first appearance in District Court on Friday morning.

 

[reedus23]

Pretty telling that LE has never made an effort to find this unknown person.If NH is telling the truth then the most important witness is someone who saw KB getting out of NH car or walking from where he dropped her off towards her apartment.Yet LE has made no effort to find this person.Instead the only witness they have tried to locate is one that might have seen something on ramsey st. at midnight.It might turn out that LE is wrong but there is no arguing LE is convinced of NH guilt.Every action,inaction,statement or time frame they have put out points to or contradicts him.

Are we certain there is an unknown person? It can be inferred but not confirmed by his statement, even if you take him at his word. I would assume and hope, since it can be inferred, that LE has, in fact, checked into that possibility. I have seen nothing to indicate they haven't. I am also fairly confident that LE has their reasons for wanting information about people on or around Ramsey. Again, we don't know everything LE knows. I would presume, since LE has more information than ourselves, and from reports they have looked into other individuals, there is good reason they have apparently focused on NH (although truthfully we don't even know that for 100%).

 

[Madeleine74]

Pretty telling that LE has never made an effort to find this unknown person.If NH is telling the truth then the most important witness is someone who saw KB getting out of NH car or walking from where he dropped her off towards her apartment.Yet LE has made no effort to find this person.Instead the only witness they have tried to locate is one that might have seen something on ramsey st. at midnight.It might turn out that LE is wrong but there is no arguing LE is convinced of NH guilt.Every action,inaction,statement or time frame they have put out points to or contradicts him.

Why is it assumed if LE isn't announcing every move they make in the course of an investigation that they are doing nothing and aren't checking out people or verifying stories they've been told, particularly by a crucial witness known to be with Kelli? Do people really believe investigators need to be told how to do their jobs by a CSI-watching armchair quarterbacking public? Why would anyone think LE hasn't done those very things? Is it because they didn't tell us? And if they don't tell us what all they've done it means nothing was done?

 

[Xavier]

Why is it assumed if LE isn't announcing every move they make in the course of an investigation that they are doing nothing and aren't checking out people or verifying stories they've been told, particularly by a crucial witness known to be with Kelli? Do people really believe investigators need to be told how to do their jobs by a CSI-watching armchair quarterbacking public? Why would anyone think LE hasn't done those very things? Is it because they didn't tell us? And if they don't tell us what all they've done it means nothing was done?

MADELIENE74 --- I agree 100% with what you're saying...LE gets discredited for being "incompetant or sluggish" if they don't supply new leads.

But, alot of times, being stealth and subtle waiting for the right opportunity to implicate a suspect is just as important for LE..

I've wondered too since Kelli was'nt a regular at Froggy's, maybe someone fancied her because she was likely the "hot, new girl" in the bar. I've wondered if Nick had a buddy and they teamed up on Kelli after leaving the bar. And the buddy took off with Kelli, and disposed of her. I'm curious if Nick received some "hush money" too.

All just my thoughts...

 

[Madeleine74]

I don't see that scenario as a possible one. There's nothing to suggest Nick teamed up with a friend/buddy. Nick was homeless and living in the woods behind the bar. If Nick is responsible for Kelli's disappearance, he was likely alone in that. It was probably a crime of opportunity. Late at night, Kelli buzzed, alone in Nick's car, he's in control of what happens, and his story of letting her out not near her apartment does not jive for me.

Also, VOH910, who was at Froggy Bottom's that night and was a witness, would have noticed if someone else were paying attention to Kelli. VOH told us that no one else left with or at the same time or within at least 15 to 20 min of Nick & Kelli leaving.

 

[OldSteve]

Why is it assumed if LE isn't announcing every move they make in the course of an investigation that they are doing nothing and aren't checking out people or verifying stories they've been told, particularly by a crucial witness known to be with Kelli? Do people really believe investigators need to be told how to do their jobs by a CSI-watching armchair quarterbacking public? Why would anyone think LE hasn't done those very things? Is it because they didn't tell us? And if they don't tell us what all they've done it means nothing was done?

What I always find interesting is when a show like Dateline gets involved in a case, many times LE will tell allot more to a Keith Morrison or other show's investigative reporters, than they would otherwise tell...

 

[Madeleine74]

What I always find interesting is when a show like Dateline gets involved in a case, many times LE will tell allot more to a Keith Morrison or other show's investigative reporters, than they would otherwise tell...

If you notice, these interviews where LE is spilling the details always take place after the resolution of the case. The editing doesn't always make that apparent, but that's when they do these stories. They have producers who follow certain cases and once a trial has completed they get their interviews and then the folks involved (lawyers, DA, cops) will talk in depth. Of course with a 42 min show there's only so much detail Dateline can cover. I met and spoke with 2 different crime show producers during a trial in my area. I sat next to a couple of them some days I attended the trial. I got an up-close look at how they do their shows from a planning perspective.

 

[reedus23]

I know my frustration levels with cases like Kelli's that seem to be going no where fast. I just can't imagine what her family is going through. I hope something somewhere is discovered that blows this case wide open because short of a lucky break like that, I don't know we'll ever have answers.

 

[Xavier]

I know my frustration levels with cases like Kelli's that seem to be going no where fast. I just can't imagine what her family is going through. I hope something somewhere is discovered that blows this case wide open because short of a lucky break like that, I don't know we'll ever have answers.

REEDUS-- It's very frustrating.

I wonder if Froggy's has security cameras? This would likely solve when they left the bar and possibly if someone else was with them?

I don't understand why some WS members can't get their heads around a possible accomplice? And many believe it's not possible since Nick was living in his car? Misery loves company and maybe Nick friended someone sympathetic to him?? Stuff Happens.

Nick's car had no clues of foul play.

No blood trail/DNA

No crime scene

No weapon

Maybe there's an unseen, unknown accomplice who was the "handler" of the crime and took care of the details for Nick and followed them on their drive on I-295/Ramsey St ??

It happens all the time, especially in small, rural towns, in the back corridors of a town like Fayetteville,NC where they've had a fair share of serious assaults on women.

Just my thoughts...

 

[Madeleine74]

Why can't some of us "get our heads around" the idea of... a, b, or c happening?

Because there's been no evidence of it. Please point to where there's been any evidence of an "accomplice" of any type. Why would we invent one? Just to have something fictional to discuss?

People love to speculate, which is a fancy way of saying, "making stuff up from their imagination when there's any ambiguity or unknowns or lack of progress." And while that's an entertaining way for folks to pass the time, it doesn't really do much of anything to further an understanding of the reality of the case.

Is it impossible that NH had an "accomplice?" No, not impossible, but where's the evidence of that? Where is one witness who could place anyone other than NH near Kelli? Or any physical evidence? Anything? Of course first you'd have to get some people to admit NH could be responsible--some don't think he is anything but a misunderstood young man who is being unfairly suspected of involvement in Kelli's disappearance. So an "accomplice" would never be on the list of possibilities for those folks because they don't think NH would/could or did do anything to Kelli in the first place.

I think it's possible NH is responsible. I have not yet seen any indication that LE thinks anyone else like an accomplice is involved. They can only go where the evidence takes them.

 

[Xavier]

BBM -
If so, I would think at that time she would have been sober enough to realize he used his car as his home, and I would think it would be smelly and messy - making me wonder why she would ride back to her apt with him later that night, unless by then she was under the influence enough not to care.

Strange, though, so this was the only person she could get a ride to and from FB's...

Also strange is that here she was going out drinking while hubby's away, and hubby thinks marriage is okay...

STEVE--- Kelli was a medic in training, so that tells me she cared about "helping people". She gave her husband 2 or 3 chances and reconciled with him. So maybe it's in her character to overlook Nick's lifestyle and problems and she just wanted to give the guy a chance.