New Details of Josh's Brainwashing Techniques

[dovebar]

I have two thoughts.

My thoughts keep going to Jennifer this morning. All this stuff being released about the family that she grew up around and eventually escaped from, has got to be extremely difficult for her . *hugs* to Jen.

Next. My first thought when I read about Charlie talking about killing Braden and it just being he and Josh ..... JP knew and/or promoted this thinking, imo.


imo

What occurred to me overnight about this is that JP was grooming Charlie by telling him that the two of them - Charlie and daddy - had special secrets. I think it shows that he was involving Charlie in, at the very least, watching his special cartoons and having secrets from other people, and one of the ways was by telling him that it would be "just them." Siblings often have rivalries (I don't know if they're natural or learned) but an older sibling can resent the baby that has come along, and by playing on that, Josh was grooming Charlie to think that there were elements of his relationship with daddy that only the two of them were going to share.

 

[gwenabob]

Sorry, but this seems like the very kind of statement that WS has prohibited.

The perps in this case - SP and JP - are ex-Mormons and Mormon haters. The Mormons here, the Coxes, are the ones whose near-entire family have been wiped out by the hate of ex church members. If you want to go there, you have to deal with that fact. And why did SP and JP hate Mormons so? Because the church preaches against and incest. Why did Susan stay so long in this dysfunctional relationship? Because she was a good Mormon girl raised to try to make a go of a relationship, even with someone who treated her as badly as JP did - and she went to her death for it, as did her boys.

We're talking about cops who had this info, and courts who had this info, not church headquarters who had this info. Unless you know the religious background of the people in decisionmaking roles here, and what their motives were - and SLC is only 50% Mormon - you shouldn't make statements like that, which only contribute to anti-Mormon bigotry of the kind that SP and JP shared, the knee-jerk statements about which they were busy teaching the boys.

Well said! Thank you x 100!

 

[Jacie Estes]

Well said! Thank you x 100!

I just want to clarify that my post had NOTHING to do with religion. When we lived in SLC there were stories of people arrested for child in SLC and Tooele, as well as child rings; this is something that has, from day one, been in my mind about josh. Once I heard about the computers and Susan being denied access to them, it was my belief that and child of any nature, cartoon or not, would be found on his computers.

 

[dovebar]

I just want to clarify that my post had NOTHING to do with religion. When we lived in SLC there were stories of people arrested for child in SLC and Tooele, as well as child rings; this is something that has, from day one, been in my mind about josh. Once I heard about the computers and Susan being denied access to them, it was my belief that and child of any nature, cartoon or not, would be found on his computers.

Yes, it's sad and disgusting that this stuff is all over the place with the advent of a new medium. Once pedophiles had to send stuff through the mail, which was easier to catch.

I too am concerned about other predators that SP and JP may be connected to. JP may have been producing this kind of material for sale. We know he didn't have any problem with making a living in WA, yet he was not living on his own but in a house where was displayed in the open and his grown brother ran around naked or in a diaper.

Here the state of WA decided that there was a "moderately high" risk that JP would hurt his kids.
http://www.bellinghamherald.com/2012/02/18/2399308/dshs-was-wary-of-powell.html
Yet they continued with an arrangement where there was only a middle-aged woman between him and doing so. And he was a person of interest in the killing of a woman!!!!

 

[DLT88]

BBM Could Susan have been pregnant?

Interesting thought! She would have to beg him for sex, though, but it is still possible.

When I read that statement that little Charlie said, I got scared and thought JP was planning to get rid of Braden! Maybe he was having less luck conforming Braden as he was Charlie and Braden seemed to be still affectionate with teachers, etc. Maybe JP was preparing Charlie for Braden being gone. Then when he heard they both loved their grandparents very much, he decided they both needed to go. This was was extremely demented. Some of them are able to appear somewhat normal in society, but they turn out to be completely insane.

 

[Dr.Fessel]

Sorry, but this seems like the very kind of statement that WS has prohibited.

The perps in this case - SP and JP - are ex-Mormons and Mormon haters. The Mormons here, the Coxes, are the ones whose near-entire family have been wiped out by the hate of ex church members. If you want to go there, you have to deal with that fact. And why did SP and JP hate Mormons so? Because the church preaches against and incest. Why did Susan stay so long in this dysfunctional relationship? Because she was a good Mormon girl raised to try to make a go of a relationship, even with someone who treated her as badly as JP did - and she went to her death for it, as did her boys.

We're talking about cops who had this info, and courts who had this info, not church headquarters who had this info. Unless you know the religious background of the people in decisionmaking roles here, and what their motives were - and SLC is only 50% Mormon - you shouldn't make statements like that, which only contribute to anti-Mormon bigotry of the kind that SP and JP shared, the knee-jerk statements about which they were busy teaching the boys.

I didn't see anything wrong with her statement. She just said shame on a state that has so many Mormans (who are known to be pro family and pro child) being part of this debacle.

Now I think the main reason JP hated the church was because he was a narcissist. He never loved the church and simply used it and the people in it to advance himself. When the church came in and became a negative force in his life and marriage as he probably saw the marriage counseling he decided the church was no use to him anymore. Honestly I don't know if Josh is still a Mormon or not. Does the church announce ex-communications?

No matter what anyone says the church is part of the story. They were going to marriage counseling by the church and 83% of the people who say they are affiliated with a church in WV Utah are Mormons.

He used the church right up to the end in Utah having members helping him pack up and move everything to Washington and when he was done using them then he professed his hate. Typical narcissist.

 

[Dr.Fessel]

Here is a better article on the pictures.

Judge allowed 8 to see images on Josh Powell’s computer as hearing neared.

http://www.sltrib.com/sltrib/news/53514692-78/powell-images-hearing-child.html.csp

 

[diphi]

No doubt I'd probably be "modsnipped" again (with good reason) if I entered this conversation.

Best for me just to sit back and seethe some...

IMO

 

[Just K]

Quote:
Originally Posted by dovebar View Post
How is it possible that the psychologist in this case did 5 years of work at a facility for sex offenders, but didn't see anything off about JP's conduct and didn't recommend a psychosexual exam until presented with actual images?

I would think that if that is your background, you would ask for that evaluation when handed the case file.

http://www.dshs.wa.gov/SCC/default.shtml )End Quote)

The one thing that struck me was that the Dr. doing JP's evaluations is a PHD doctor. He was not a psychiatrist. He is a psychologist.

He diagnosed JP with a personality disorder with 60 other underlying behaviors or symptoms! That, in and of itself, would suggest that supervision would be an ongoing need. There is quite a bit of research that suggest that there is no cure for personality disorders and without successful behavior modification the patient can be a danger to himself and others. This was not going to be a short-term custody/placement arrangement and then add the newer information and the court order for a psycho-sexual exam...JP knew this was an uphill battle at best.

It disturbed me immensely that on his second home visit with the boys he showed them the three sleeping pads and said they would soon go on another camping trip... Made me wonder if he did have other plans for the boys or if this was some sort of psychological threat to keep the boys in line...as in a message to say "stop talking about our other camping trip!"

 

[dovebar]

Something made him confident he would have unsupervised ability to take the kids camping?

 

[Dr.Fessel]

Something made him confident he would have unsupervised ability to take the kids camping?

I think they were worried he was getting the kids back in that last hearing. I think CPS was backing Josh and the shrink was saying no and it was going to be up to the judge. This is all before the pictures were shown.

 

[diphi]

I didn't see anything wrong with her statement. She just said shame on a state that has so many Mormans (who are known to be pro family and pro child) being part of this debacle.

Now I think the main reason JP hated the church was because he was a narcissist. He never loved the church and simply used it and the people in it to advance himself. When the church came in and became a negative force in his life and marriage as he probably saw the marriage counseling he decided the church was no use to him anymore. Honestly I don't know if Josh is still a Mormon or not. Does the church announce ex-communications?

No matter what anyone says the church is part of the story. They were going to marriage counseling by the church and 83% of the people who say they are affiliated with a church in WV Utah are Mormons.

He used the church right up to the end in Utah having members helping him pack up and move everything to Washington and when he was done using them then he professed his hate. Typical narcissist.

BBM

Can't help but say I agree. Doesn't matter - Catholic, Baptist, Mormon, whatever...religion was important to these people and figured prominently in their actions. It's part of what they were/are.

IMO

 

[justbeachy]

OMG. I have been out of the country on vacation and am just catching up on here. What on earth happened?!?!?! I need to dig through all these threads, but do I understand correctly: the boys are dead????? Please tell me I read something incorrectly. My head is swimming right now.

 

[Dr.Fessel]

OMG. I have been out of the country on vacation and am just catching up on here. What on earth happened?!?!?! I need to dig through all these threads, but do I understand correctly: the boys are dead????? Please tell me I read something incorrectly. My head is swimming right now.

Sorry, yes the boys are dead and so is Josh. It is a story that just gets worse everyday.

He killed them with a hatchet and soaked his house in gasoline and blew it up.

 

[justbeachy]

WHAT?!?!!? A hatchet????? OMG. OMG. I...I...I don't know what to say! Are they sure he is also dead? OMG. I need to find the thread where this all started so I can try to catch up.

 

[Emma Peel]

Sorry, yes the boys are dead and so is Josh. It is a story that just gets worse everyday.

He killed them with a hatchet and soaked his house in gasoline and blew it up.

:what:
Good grief Fessel. Way to tell a girl the news gently. illowfight:

 

[waltzingmatilda]

I am sorry justbeachy. I am still in shock myself.

 

[diphi]

:what:
Good grief Fessel. Way to tell a girl the news gently. illowfight:

Lol. Well, that is what he did. She asked, he told her. Hard to be gentle online sometimes....:innocent:

IMO

 

[justbeachy]

:what:
Good grief Fessel. Way to tell a girl the news gently. illowfight:

No worries. You can sugarcoat an anchovy, but it's still a stinky piece of fish. There was no gentle way to share this horrible news.

 

[ThoughtFox]

I haven't talked to my husband about this case at all because I knew he would get upset. So today he was reading over my shoulder and said "Who is Josh Powell?" (he had seen the name in the news but hadn't read any stories). So like Dr. Fessel I just blurted out the details about the murders and the explosion and the social worker. And my hubby just stared at me and then said, "That's the saddest thing I think I've ever heard."

He was stunned by the bare details, so it's no wonder the rest of us are nearly in shock from knowing every little thing connected to the case. It's a terrible case - just terrible, and gets worse every day.