Norway Norway - Oslo, WhtFem 20-30, Fake Name, shot in hotel room, Jun'95

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  • #441
Not sure whats up here, but there is a line that goes straight horizontally across the photo
upload_2021-4-22_13-58-26.png

You can tell the top of the button and the bottom of the 10 has been cut off, somehow, by something. The other one, 15 looks normal, and fine.

More clone-tool, with more detailed settings
upload_2021-4-22_14-2-59.png
 
  • #442
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  • #443
  • #444
Yeah I am thinking almost 10 cm shorter tbh. 5-10 cm. shorter. You can tell they are not the same size by just looking at the images, you don't need the measurement thing to tell you but yeah...

At this point, I think we are qualified for a hire tbh.

@Beekarina

I have no idea. To me it reads as wrong-pixels. Mostly due to how the button was cut off in an earlier image. Those things only happen when you photoshopped something in, or OVER, something. Or drew over it. But this is a very straight line....

Absolutely but if the Norwegian services offer to hire me I'm going to turn and run very fast :D
 
  • #445
Have either of you taken a close look at the room entry photo? There are what appear to be a lot of shadows, but I'm wondering if they might be something else?

Edited to add: I mean this one. The first image that appears after the one of Camilla Steinaa.... https://www.the-sun.com/entertainme...es-jennifer-fairgate-undercover-spy-murdered/

I'm curious what this could be: View attachment 293787

I did look at that too, I figured it was either scuff marks in the carpet pile, or areas of carpet that are less worn. But I'm going to take a look again. It's taken all these years to see the stuff hidden in these pics, it's probably going to take many people people and hours to find other relevant details.
 
  • #446
I tried a little bit on the image you showed, the big version. There is nothing abnormal about the area you pointed to. Sometimes rugs and carpets will get shadowy if someone dragged something over it or walked across or something. Tried running it through a few different settings and getting nothing. I think it is just scuff marks or something.
 
  • #447
Could the "noise" under adaptive equalize be blood?

Look at this version here. Those speckles under the hand are reflective, they represent where light has bounced back.
 

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  • #448
upload_2021-4-22_15-28-45.png


You know when you wear a ring for a while you end up getting a mark from where you wore the ring?
There is no such thing on her finger. Or any of them. That I can tell. They are normally worn at the base of the finger too, not ...that high up? Could be it is too big for her.
 
  • #449
Wow, all this photo analysis has revealed some very weird things in the Norwegian police photos.
I suspected they may have been involved or covering up somehow, as the police would have a very close working relationship with that hotel, due to the hosting NATO and international governmental events and conferences.
 
  • #450
So, lets assume this is a 9 mm browning pistol (this is not the gun from evidence btw, this is another one)
51808-0.jpg

1200px-FN_Hi_Power.jpg

The semi automatic ones, hold 13-15 bullets in " a detachable box" aka gun magazine? That thing that is aside the gun in the earlier shot. So the gun is missing at least 3 bullets, since they can hold normally 10. It might be missing as many as 6.

Feed system Detachable box magazine; capacities:
13 or 15 rounds, some 20 and 30 rounds made by Rhodesia (9mm)[1]
10 rounds (.40 S&W)

the 9×19mm Parabellum - Wikipedia

would fit with what was described by @Marantz4250b as the bullets described.
upload_2021-4-22_16-53-24.png

They are known as
  • 9×19 mm NATO and 9 mm NATO (and more)

You find them listed as a type of bullet on the wiki site for browning.
upload_2021-4-22_16-54-7.png
 
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  • #451
It doesn't mean that the gun was made for a NATO member nation. That is just the calibre designation. 9x19 NATO just refers to the cartridge it fires. The gun was almost certainly built from parts of other guns.

This helps to obfuscate the origin. Sounds like the operation of an intelligence service. I've suspected all along that this woman was used in some sort of MK-Ultra sort of operation, and was snuffed to keep her quiet. Could have been done by a contractor (or "super-soldier") type under the orders/control of CIA, MI6, or Bundesnachrichtendienst.
 
  • #452
I do believe the intelligence services are involved, pretty firmly.

But I have to ask this question, it's been playing on my mind.

How far does a 21-24 year old go in an intelligence agency that early into her career? Does she go far enough that she could be involved with something that would justify this level of cover up?
 
  • #453
I do believe the intelligence services are involved, pretty firmly.

But I have to ask this question, it's been playing on my mind.

How far does a 21-24 year old go in an intelligence agency that early into her career? Does she go far enough that she could be involved with something that would justify this level of cover up?

honeypots could be an option here.it could also be that she did not quite know what she was up against, and, here we are.

I think Russia had interpreted something norway did earlier that year as a possible "attack" or provocation.
Down south the Serbs and Bosnia civil war thing was brewing (if not started)

No idea what event drew them to Norway, that is a mystery, above is only speculation.
 
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  • #454
This helps to obfuscate the origin. Sounds like the operation of an intelligence service. I've suspected all along that this woman was used in some sort of MK-Ultra sort of operation, and was snuffed to keep her quiet. Could have been done by a contractor (or "super-soldier") type under the orders/control of CIA, MI6, or Bundesnachrichtendienst.

Personally, I think that too far-fetched to be remotely realistic. There is no evidence at all, anywhere, in any form what-so-ever, that suggests state intelligence, from what I can see. The gun is exactly the type of weapon that is recovered from common criminals all the time. It's made from bits of other guns with identification numbers removed which is what criminals often do. Given the way in which the chambering identification was marked (9x19) I suspect that it was a military barrel (or whole gun at that point) purloined by a soldier who removed the numbers to prevent tracking it back to his unit and potentially to him.

There is, to my mind, everything to suggest that it wasn't an intelligence operation; if she were simply someone they wanted to keep quiet then why do it in this very public way - a hotel room which leaves a body and massively increases the chance of the assassin to be caught? We know that she spent almost a full day away from her room. If some intelligence agency wanted her dead then they had ample opportunity to do it much more discreetly than shooting her in a hotel room. Done correctly any operative would be out of the country long before her body was found, if it even ever was.

As I've mentioned previously, the most likely and least complicated answer is almost certainly the correct one. That answer is that she shot herself. The very fact that she was still gripping the trigger to its farthest point of travel reduces the likelihood of another person shooting her by a massive degree. The fact that there are other rather strange facts associated to this; the lack of documents; the sparse amount of clothing; virtually no personal items such as makeup or toiletries; the fact that she checked in seemingly without leaving any form of payment and suchlike are merely strange connections/facts/occurences and not much more. I think they suggest that she had contact with someone, or visited other venues where she had more possessions available to her but they are not suggestive of an intelligence operation, as far as I can see. The fact is that we simply do not know why those strange facts exist, they are "strange" because we don't know how they relate to her and they do not, in themselves, suggest any outside influence on her death, let alone at the hands of a sovereign state or other.

The most telling thing about this whole affair is the check-in, to be honest. I'm not saying that it's impossible but I would suggest that it is enormously unlikely that she was able to simply "hit lucky" and manage to check-in to a very modern, ultra-luxury hotel with absolutely no form of identification or method of payment without someone at the hotel allowing her to do so. I doubt that any country sends espionage agents out on a random possibility of them being able to check-in to places with no form of ID or payment and in possession of nothing other than skimpy clothing and a bag containing a large military handgun and some ammo. The only reasonable explanation for her checking-in like that was that she was allowed to do so by someone. There are only a few possibilities to explain that, I think; A) She was known to the hotel (or its reception staff) as a regular who had been allowed to do this in the past; B) She was checked-in like that because someone else known to the hotel (or its reception staff) asked them to do so and was picking up the room bill; C) She was a friend/relative/girlfriend of someone who worked at the hotel - although that is really a variation of the first part.

One thing that I don't recall ever being suggested is - was she actually Norwegian or had she been living there a long time? That would entirely negate any questions as to international travel with no documents and would perfectly explain why she had so few clothes. She may have been simply trying to get some time to herself and may have lived locally? Perhaps escaping an abusive relationship for a few days/forever? If anyone has seen the recent Netflix documentary on Tina Turner's life (and if not then you should, it's really good and she is an absolute legend!) then you'll know that that is exactly what she did when she escaped her psychotic ex-husband - she ran across the freeway to the nearest hotel told the manager who she was and that she had 19c in her purse but would have someone wire him the money the next day if he let her stay. Now, I'm not saying that that was the case here but it is at least a very reasonable proposition and far, far more likely than anything to do with spies.
 
  • #455
Personally, I think that too far-fetched to be remotely realistic. There is no evidence at all, anywhere, in any form what-so-ever, that suggests state intelligence, from what I can see. The gun is exactly the type of weapon that is recovered from common criminals all the time. It's made from bits of other guns with identification numbers removed which is what criminals often do. Given the way in which the chambering identification was marked (9x19) I suspect that it was a military barrel (or whole gun at that point) purloined by a soldier who removed the numbers to prevent tracking it back to his unit and potentially to him.

There is, to my mind, everything to suggest that it wasn't an intelligence operation; if she were simply someone they wanted to keep quiet then why do it in this very public way - a hotel room which leaves a body and massively increases the chance of the assassin to be caught? We know that she spent almost a full day away from her room. If some intelligence agency wanted her dead then they had ample opportunity to do it much more discreetly than shooting her in a hotel room. Done correctly any operative would be out of the country long before her body was found, if it even ever was.

As I've mentioned previously, the most likely and least complicated answer is almost certainly the correct one. That answer is that she shot herself. The very fact that she was still gripping the trigger to its farthest point of travel reduces the likelihood of another person shooting her by a massive degree. The fact that there are other rather strange facts associated to this; the lack of documents; the sparse amount of clothing; virtually no personal items such as makeup or toiletries; the fact that she checked in seemingly without leaving any form of payment and suchlike are merely strange connections/facts/occurences and not much more. I think they suggest that she had contact with someone, or visited other venues where she had more possessions available to her but they are not suggestive of an intelligence operation, as far as I can see. The fact is that we simply do not know why those strange facts exist, they are "strange" because we don't know how they relate to her and they do not, in themselves, suggest any outside influence on her death, let alone at the hands of a sovereign state or other.

The most telling thing about this whole affair is the check-in, to be honest. I'm not saying that it's impossible but I would suggest that it is enormously unlikely that she was able to simply "hit lucky" and manage to check-in to a very modern, ultra-luxury hotel with absolutely no form of identification or method of payment without someone at the hotel allowing her to do so. I doubt that any country sends espionage agents out on a random possibility of them being able to check-in to places with no form of ID or payment and in possession of nothing other than skimpy clothing and a bag containing a large military handgun and some ammo. The only reasonable explanation for her checking-in like that was that she was allowed to do so by someone. There are only a few possibilities to explain that, I think; A) She was known to the hotel (or its reception staff) as a regular who had been allowed to do this in the past; B) She was checked-in like that because someone else known to the hotel (or its reception staff) asked them to do so and was picking up the room bill; C) She was a friend/relative/girlfriend of someone who worked at the hotel - although that is really a variation of the first part.

One thing that I don't recall ever being suggested is - was she actually Norwegian or had she been living there a long time? That would entirely negate any questions as to international travel with no documents and would perfectly explain why she had so few clothes. She may have been simply trying to get some time to herself and may have lived locally? Perhaps escaping an abusive relationship for a few days/forever? If anyone has seen the recent Netflix documentary on Tina Turner's life (and if not then you should, it's really good and she is an absolute legend!) then you'll know that that is exactly what she did when she escaped her psychotic ex-husband - she ran across the freeway to the nearest hotel told the manager who she was and that she had 19c in her purse but would have someone wire him the money the next day if he let her stay. Now, I'm not saying that that was the case here but it is at least a very reasonable proposition and far, far more likely than anything to do with spies.

You should go over the last 4-5 pages and see the images we've found that show a crime scene that has very obviously been changed after the police/officials arrived. Then there's the gun photo in her hand, next to a ruler, which measures ~10cm less than it does when displayed as an exhibit next to a ruler. It doesn't add up to the police's account.

There are other things that have gone missing since the first photo (the one taken in the doorway, which the police have put on the record as the first photo of the crime scene) was taken. This is evidenced in subsequent photos, where some objects have been removed or moved.

A non-state actor wouldn't be able to manipulate official police/intelligence photos in any way.

As someone who has worked for governments my whole life I am a bit like you in that I don't like the instinct to point to a conspiracy. But this case is different. Government agencies do do dark things in all countries, and in this case it could be as 'light' as helping cover up something stupid a foreign friend has done, or as 'heavy' as murdering someone in the name of the state and hiding the evidence.
 
  • #456
Guests always have to show some form of ID even if they're from one EU country staying in another. Even back in 1995. Norway not being in the EU would have made this more likely, not less.
She may have been a regular visitor to the hotel, hence they recognised her and didn't ask for ID during the busy check-in period.
Alternately, she may have been staying there as a high-class escort and the hotel's major managers knew who she was
, as she was a regular visitor to their many VIP political guests on the top 3 floors.....

I've said that too. I think that she was able to check-in like she did because someone allowed her to do so. The alternative is, I think, too unlikely to be correct.
 
  • #457
There was not found any gunshot powder residue on her hands. Her hands also had no bruising from recoil. There was also no blood spatter on her hand. Despite blood spatter being everywhere else. In fact that hand and ring looks absolutely pristine and clean.
View attachment 293161
I rather doubt this hand fired 2 shots.

The GSR thing I think we have done before and it's probably not probative of anything - it was at most two shots. Why would there be bruising from recoil? Firearms do not bruise people when are fired (usually) and that is not a particularly hard recoiling gun to start with.
 
  • #458
upload_2021-4-22_19-56-58.png

I poked around on Doe Network and found this young lady,Svetlana Grigoryevna Tankevich, from Minsk, Belarus. Missing since Jan 1994.
Women from Eastern Europe is very often trafficked. Could have happened to her as well. Who knows.
The likeness struck me.

I could find no information about her aside the doe network profile, which was sparse. It could be more information out there in a different language.
The Doe Network: Case File 1439DFBLR
 
  • #459
The GSR thing I think we have done before and it's probably not probative of anything - it was at most two shots. Why would there be bruising from recoil? Firearms do not bruise people when are fired (usually) and that is not a particularly hard recoiling gun to start with.

It is not the absense of GSR that specifically bothers me. It is the absence of absolutely everything that should possibly be there.
GSR, Blood spatter (especially this, I assume you saw the crime scene), fiber, something...anything. Even a ring-mark. Which is rather common when you wear rings. There is nothing on that hand. Nada. But underneath on her shirt, there are some sort of residue visible on the images (once you start looking through exposure on photoshop). Which just makes it even weirder.

Add in that women rarely chose guns to kill themselves with, a 1/4 chance of the gun staying in the hand after death. It is certainly some starts aligning for this to happen....Could it happen? Certainly. But then why would the police have to edit the photo they released to the press...?
 
  • #460
The GSR thing I think we have done before and it's probably not probative of anything - it was at most two shots. Why would there be bruising from recoil? Firearms do not bruise people when are fired (usually) and that is not a particularly hard recoiling gun to start with.

Look at these two photos of the same gun, same ruler (or same type of ruler). One of those guns has a chunk missing and is 7cm shorter than the other. Yet a/c to Oslo PD, it's the same gun.
 

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