GUILTY NV - Tammy Meyers, 44, fatally shot at her Las Vegas home, 12 Feb 2015 - #4

[sonjay]

There had to have been some time lapse when EN saw the Buick driving at the school because he called his friend (Audi) to come pick him up, how long did it take for the Audi to arrive? I don't know, but it still took some time. Maybe that was when TM and KM were actually doing the driving lesson, then the Audi arrives, picks up EN and off they go to investigate the Buick. The Buick was able to get home fast enough to make the switch from KM to BM, then off they go looking for the Audi. Gosh, I really wish we had more to go on, more docs would be nice :fence:

Personally, I think you're making a mistake in thinking that there were any driving lessons that night.

According to neighborhood gossip, the school and park were the hangout for the neighborhood drug dealers. TM would not have taken her daughter there at that time of night for a driving lesson. IMO, there were no driving lessons that night. Regardless of who was driving the Buick, who was in the passenger seat, or how many times the green car went out and back home again, none of it had anything to do with any driving lessons. IMO, JMO, MOO, and all that jazz.

I could be wrong. Perhaps TM did take her 15-year-old daughter to the local drug dealer hangout at 11 at night to give her driving lessons. If that's true, then I'm also more likely to believe that she dumped the daughter at home alone while she took her son to go hunt down the other guy, as well. The story, as told by the Meyerses, portrays her as a mother with pretty poor judgment. Maybe they're telling the truth.

I'm more inclined to believe it was the youngsters who exhibited poor judgment that night.

 

[sonjay]

That's a great point! Vegas has more than just hospital workers working weird shifts. I'll bet a significant among of the population does. That means there might be quite a few witnesses. Since my family's schedule is unusual and we are the ONLY people who are up in the middle of the night, we are often witnesses to what happens at night around here. My daughter heard a neighbor moaning for help after she had fallen and couldn't get up at 3am. I heard someone breaking into my other neighbor's garage. We were the ones to call in a fire when another neighbor's house caught on fire while the family was sleeping. That sort of stuff.

I just want to interject here: It sounds like you live in an exciting neighborhood!

 

[Miss Muffet]

There's just way too much guesswork there for me. We don't have any idea what time EN first saw the Buick, or what time he called the Audi driver, or what time the Audi driver got there. I can't begin to form an opinion about that.

I think it's less guess work with the Meyerses going home because both statements about the Meyerses and EN allow for a break in the action.

I just want to interject here: It sounds like you live in an exciting neighborhood!

Those incidents span the 25 years I've lived here. My husband has lived in our house for 40 years.

It's a terribly boring white suburban neighborhood with older homes built from the early 1900s to the early 1990s. There are young families, elderly couples, families with children of all ages, and even same sex couples with and without children. We don't have racial diversity here though, less than 1% minorities in the immediate area and the metropolitan area is 90% white. But we have economic diversity with lower class, working class, middle class and upper middle class all living together in my neighborhood.

Since my children are in their early 20s, I can relate to Tammy's life to an extent. I've been a SAHM for the majority of the past 20 years. My children smoked marijuana and many of their high school friends went down a wrong path after graduating. Of the ones who went down the wrong path, some have died of overdoses, some are in and out of rehab, some are still addicted. One of those kids lived at my house for almost a year because I took him in when his parents kicked him out. I know parents who are involved in illegal activity, parents who cluelessly think their children are perfect, and parents who are amazing.

It may seem strange I know so much about my neighbors, but my region is known for being very friendly and outgoing. I know all of my neighbors. We talk and interact regularly. I can't imagine a neighborhood where neighbors don't know each other. It's a liberal area of a swing state. The mindset is people don't care what other's do as long as it doesn't interfere with their lives.

All of my experiences with people I have known contribute greatly to my belief that something doesn't match up about the Meyerses' story and the events that happened that night.

 

[PaperDoll]

Personally, I think you're making a mistake in thinking that there were any driving lessons that night.

According to neighborhood gossip, the school and park were the hangout for the neighborhood drug dealers. TM would not have taken her daughter there at that time of night for a driving lesson. IMO, there were no driving lessons that night. Regardless of who was driving the Buick, who was in the passenger seat, or how many times the green car went out and back home again, none of it had anything to do with any driving lessons. IMO, JMO, MOO, and all that jazz.

I could be wrong. Perhaps TM did take her 15-year-old daughter to the local drug dealer hangout at 11 at night to give her driving lessons. If that's true, then I'm also more likely to believe that she dumped the daughter at home alone while she took her son to go hunt down the other guy, as well. The story, as told by the Meyerses, portrays her as a mother with pretty poor judgment. Maybe they're telling the truth.

I'm more inclined to believe it was the youngsters who exhibited poor judgment that night.

I fully understand what you are saying :blowkiss: But why tell the police they were giving driving lessons? What benefit would that bring, and if the driving lesson isn't true, who was driving the Buick during all this? If KM was, that is a mistake, too because she doesn't have a license. I'M SO CONFUSED!!!! lol

 

[katydid23]

I fully understand what you are saying :blowkiss: But why tell the police they were giving driving lessons? What benefit would that bring, and if the driving lesson isn't true, who was driving the Buick during all this? If KM was, that is a mistake, too because she doesn't have a license. I'M SO CONFUSED!!!! lol

The 'driving lesson' story is an innocent way to explain why one would be out driving at that time and lurking around in the same place the drug deals are going down. IMO

 

[katydid23]

Also, the other reason the driving lesson seems untrue is that KM did not have her permit yet. She is not allowed to drive with another person 'teaching her.' She needs to take a written test and get her permit first. So why would a mom take an unpermitted driver out at 10:30 to take a driving lesson? Whats the hurry. She has not even started the process yet.

 

[PaperDoll]

Ok so who was driving the Buick that night?

 

[Miss Muffet]

According to neighborhood gossip, the school and park were the hangout for the neighborhood drug dealers. TM would not have taken her daughter there at that time of night for a driving lesson. IMO, there were no driving lessons that night. Regardless of who was driving the Buick, who was in the passenger seat, or how many times the green car went out and back home again, none of it had anything to do with any driving lessons. IMO, JMO, MOO, and all that jazz.

I wonder how dangerous the park really is. In my region, the neighborhood drug dealers sell from their parents' homes. Sitting out in the open at a park is just too stupid from a getting-caught-by-police perspective. Then again, they're not calling themselves gangs and running around with guns in my area.

But it sounds the Meyerses' neighborhood becoming dangerous is a new development since the police weren't even aware of the gang. As a result, it's possible TM and other parents don't consider the park dangerous while a smaller percentage of parents feel that way.

I could be wrong. Perhaps TM did take her 15-year-old daughter to the local drug dealer hangout at 11 at night to give her driving lessons. If that's true, then I'm also more likely to believe that she dumped the daughter at home alone while she took her son to go hunt down the other guy, as well. The story, as told by the Meyerses, portrays her as a mother with pretty poor judgment. Maybe they're telling the truth.

I haven't completely ruled out TM being in the car as stated. Parents like that exist. One thing convinces me that TM wasn't involved: RM's claim BM was afraid his father would be mad. If they were parents who got deeply involved in illegal activity and dangerous behavior, BM wouldn't be afraid to tell RM. I think he'd be more afraid to not tell him the truth.

I don't believe there were driving lessons. I believe the car returned home. KM either returned home to get BM, or KM and BM returned home to get BM's gun. The TM in the car story could be true, but the reason she was out that night would be for something other than driving lessons.

I think most of us don't believe there were driving lessons.

 

[Elley Mae]

Ok so who was driving the Buick that night?

Cujo!




J/K I am waiting to hear, cause at this time it is no telling who was driving. Has Granny been asked, maybe she was driving. jmo idk

 

[sonjay]

Those incidents span the 25 years I've lived here. My husband has lived in our house for 40 years.

Oh, that's different, then. Not all that exciting, I guess, if it takes 25 years to accumulate 3 or 4 such incidents.

It may seem strange I know so much about my neighbors, but my region is known for being very friendly and outgoing. I know all of my neighbors. We talk and interact regularly. I can't imagine a neighborhood where neighbors don't know each other. It's a liberal area of a swing state. The mindset is people don't care what other's do as long as it doesn't interfere with their lives.

That's my neighborhood, too. Well, it's not a liberal area; more of a redneck rural flavor, but we all know each other, and we're all very much "live and let live." There are a lot of "Here, hold muh beer" type of activities around here.

All of my experiences with people I have known contribute greatly to my belief that something doesn't match up about the Meyerses' story and the events that happened that night.

Yeah, I think we all agree that the story and events of that evening just don't add up. No matter whose version of which story you believe. I hope it eventually becomes clear.

 

[sonjay]

Ok so who was driving the Buick that night?

Brian Williams?

 

[Miss Muffet]

Also, the other reason the driving lesson seems untrue is that KM did not have her permit yet. She is not allowed to drive with another person 'teaching her.' She needs to take a written test and get her permit first. So why would a mom take an unpermitted driver out at 10:30 to take a driving lesson? Whats the hurry. She has not even started the process yet.

In TM's defense, I took my son out before he had a permit. I had my reasons. He was afraid to get his license because one of his classmates was killed driving, and another classmate was paralyzed from the neck down in a separate accident.

I wasn't worried about LE because I felt confident an officer would understand my plight. We spent an entire summer driving all of the cemeteries in the county. I even encourage him to go on the main road for a quarter mile once from a cemetery to a nearby convenience store because I knew I couldn't get him into the DMV to take the learners permit test until his fear as gone.

I don't think it's uncommon for parents to take unpermitted children to empty parking lots. Some people put their younger children in their laps to steer. I do think it's uncommon to take them out on the open road, especially a child too young to qualify for a permit and who doesn't have the extenuating issues like my son had.

But let's also remember that RM was a drag racer. I'm sure all of his kids were driving on race tracks since they were very little. I have a friend who is a drag racer and his children have been drag racing at a young age. This contributes to my believing it's possible for KM to have been out driving by herself.

 

[Miss Muffet]

That's my neighborhood, too. Well, it's not a liberal area; more of a redneck rural flavor, but we all know each other, and we're all very much "live and let live." There are a lot of "Here, hold muh beer" type of activities around here.

My son would love it there. One day, he said, "I think I'd be happy as a redneck." He loves watching youtube videos of "Here, hold muh beer" type activities and thinks it would be a blast---figuratively and literally. LOL

We do have a very interesting collection of neighbors though. One is a survivalist. He shoots his guns off regularly in his backyard. There's a schizophrenic who sings to his shrubbery. Sometimes he argues with his bushes when his medication needs adjusted. There's a social worker with a huge house and she fosters about 10 kids at a time. In the early years, we simply thought she was Catholic with a big family. I could go on and on. I've thought about writing a book about my eclectic neighborhood!

 

[SpanishInquisition]

I fully understand what you are saying :blowkiss: But why tell the police they were giving driving lessons? What benefit would that bring, and if the driving lesson isn't true, who was driving the Buick during all this? If KM was, that is a mistake, too because she doesn't have a license. I'M SO CONFUSED!!!! lol

What I find highly suspicious is that BM's alleged activities have been greatly altered over time, so I think whatever is really gone on may trace back to him. The first few stories that came out was that BM was never in the car, but instead just ran out with guns blazing when KM ran inside to tell him what was going on. That's something very hard to misremember as BM would know whether or not he was in the car that night and involved in a shooting before coming home, particularly as both KM and BM would have to have told this story separately for it to have lasted for days. Missing from the original story is the Buick chasing the Audi with BM in it. KM's activities are relatively unchanged, but for her to say her brother came out guns blazing rather than him being in the car means that she had to be in on covering whatever it is up.

I may have an answer for this! In no way am I trying to disparage the victim's family, but I just had a light bulb go on when I was going over BM's actions again. The original story painted BM as a hero who came outside with guns blazing in defense of his family with no mention of him being in the car or involved in the other shooting. However what he now says was him mom dragged him out (he didn't want to go), next what he did was he ducked during the first shooting (in other words it could be seen that he wasn't protecting his mom when she needed him the most) and on further reading it sounds like he may have abandoned his mother parked in the car unprotected in an attempt to flee the scene as soon as the Audi showed up on Mt Shasta where he only then finally fired back because he had no choice (so again he didn't protect her when she needed him the most, this time his actions that could be perceived as cowardice cost his mom her life). I'm not calling BM a coward, but I'm saying the Meyers family could have considered him a coward for first refusing to help, then ducking the bullets and not firing back while his mom was under fire and finally running away and leaving his mom a sitting duck. KM could have gone along with it knowing how damaging it would be to her family to have to not only deal with the death of TM, but the perceived cowardice of BM where the family could see him as morally responsible for her death. Under the potential family dynamics that we've until now perceived as KM/BM throwing TM under the bus, it could actually be seen as the reverse of this with BM now fessing up to being such a coward that he got his mom killed in their eyes (and if this is the answer, it sounds like BM is still soft-pedaling actions that could been seen as cowardly).

I'm not convinced that what I proposed up above is what is actually going on as I still have trouble accepting TM was ready to single-handedly go after a car full of gang members half her age and that she would leave her daughter home alone after the daughter received a death threat, but if that is true about TM, my solution to this is logically self-consistent. Actually if that is the solution, it would make EN more legally guilty if BM was fleeing and only shot back when he felt like he had no other option. The more of a perceived coward BM is, the less EN can successful use self-defense to use conviction (unless the horse has already left the barn with EN's defense able to create sufficient reasonable doubt by virtue of the changing stories and destroyed evidence), which the BM coward angle really does make it look like EN is at a minimum guilty of manslaughter.

 

[Gin]

In TM's defense, I took my son out before he had a permit. I had my reasons. He was afraid to get his license because one of his classmates was killed driving, and another classmate was paralyzed from the neck down in a separate accident.

I wasn't worried about LE because I felt confident an officer would understand my plight. We spent an entire summer driving all of the cemeteries in the county. I even encourage him to go on the main road for a quarter mile once from a cemetery to a nearby convenience store because I knew I couldn't get him into the DMV to take the learners permit test until his fear as gone.

I don't think it's uncommon for parents to take unpermitted children to empty parking lots. Some people put their younger children in their laps to steer. I do think it's uncommon to take them out on the open road, especially a child too young to qualify for a permit and who doesn't have the extenuating issues like my son had.

But let's also remember that RM was a drag racer. I'm sure all of his kids were driving on race tracks since they were very little. I have a friend who is a drag racer and his children have been drag racing at a young age. This contributes to my believing it's possible for KM to have been out driving by herself.

I am sorry to to hear about your son's friends. My kids never had to take a driving test to get a learners permit. I can see how that might be intimidating, and afraid of the whole thing. However, having a permit makes it legal to teach a teen how to drive. I am assuming you must live in a very rural area, where not having a permit would be not much of a problem, maybe the local folks even know the LE.

Las Vegas is a very different place. If the teen has no permit, then the teen is just driving a car illegally with a friend or parent along for fun. If they cause an accident, it goes back to the car owners insurance. The owners will likely see a nice increase in their personal car insurance just for being a part of a fun ride.

I don't know why in the Vegas case whatever happened is still referred to as a driving lesson. It wasn't a lesson. I'd term it a mom and me fun ride, if it occurred.

And having a parent that drag races...you would think that they would be really aware of road rules, laws. Particularly when it comes to trying to keep their inflated insurance rates as low as possible given their expensive hobby.

Anyway, I think one of the things parents do is set boundaries. If KM was allowed to drive in Las Vegas under the circumstances we've been led to believe happened, I'm not impressed. If she "borrowed" the car without permission, that hasn't been mentioned or proven yet. And if she wasn't driving at all, they why did she say she was?

 

[Gin]

My son would love it there. One day, he said, "I think I'd be happy as a redneck." He loves watching youtube videos of "Here, hold muh beer" type activities and thinks it would be a blast---figuratively and literally. LOL

We do have a very interesting collection of neighbors though. One is a survivalist. He shoots his guns off regularly in his backyard. There's a schizophrenic who sings to his shrubbery. Sometimes he argues with his bushes when his medication needs adjusted. There's a social worker with a huge house and she fosters about 10 kids at a time. In the early years, we simply thought she was Catholic with a big family. I could go on and on. I've thought about writing a book about my eclectic neighborhood!

I think you're onto something. That would be one fun read!

 

[Miss Muffet]

I am sorry to to hear about your son's friends. My kids never had to take a driving test to get a learners permit. I can see how that might be intimidating, and afraid of the whole thing. However, having a permit makes it legal to teach a teen how to drive. I am assuming you must live in a very rural area, where not having a permit would be not much of a problem, maybe the local folks even know the LE.

It's only a written test for a permit, but I couldn't get him to go take the written test. After a few years of this, I drove to a cemetery without telling him of my plan. I parked the car and said, "Let's switch seats, and you give it a try." We spent the summer going to different cemeteries, but he still wouldn't go take the written test because he feared driving on roads with cars. We're not in a rural area. I live in an inner-ring suburb just 10 minutes from skyscrapers. We went to cemeteries all over the county where we didn't know local LE at all. Trust me, I did what needed to be done. The kid is 22 and only got his driver's license last year.

Las Vegas is a very different place. If the teen has no permit, then the teen is just driving a car illegally with a friend or parent along for fun.

LVPD didn't seem to think it was unusual TM was giving KM driving lessons. Did they?

If they cause an accident, it goes back to the car owners insurance. The owners will likely see a nice increase in their personal car insurance just for being a part of a fun ride.

Of course, that's a given. It's a risk I chose to take because having a young adult fully equipped to be independent in the world was more important to me than the financial risks, which I would have gladly paid if necessary.

I don't know why in the Vegas case whatever happened is still referred to as a driving lesson. It wasn't a lesson. I'd term it a mom and me fun ride, if it occurred.

Apparently, it's not different in Vegas than where I live.

And having a parent that drag races...you would think that they would be really aware of road rules, laws. Particularly when it comes to trying to keep their inflated insurance rates as low as possible given their expensive hobby.

I mentioned the drag racing from the standpoint of KM possibly being an experienced driver.

Anyway, I think one of the things parents do is set boundaries. If KM was allowed to drive in Las Vegas under the circumstances we've been led to believe happened, I'm not impressed. If she "borrowed" the car without permission, that hasn't been mentioned or proven yet. And if she wasn't driving at all, they why did she say she was?

I'm not impressed either. I'm just sharing that it's not entirely unusual.

 

[trackhit]

Brian Williams?

Bill O Reilly's got shotgun!

 

[Miss Muffet]

I'm not calling BM a coward, but I'm saying the Meyers family could have considered him a coward for first refusing to help, then ducking the bullets and not firing back while his mom was under fire and finally running away and leaving his mom a sitting duck. KM could have gone along with it knowing how damaging it would be to her family to have to not only deal with the death of TM, but the perceived cowardice of BM where the family could see him as morally responsible for her death. Under the potential family dynamics that we've until now perceived as KM/BM throwing TM under the bus, it could actually be seen as the reverse of this with BM now fessing up to being such a coward that he got his mom killed in their eyes (and if this is the answer, it sounds like BM is still soft-pedaling actions that could been seen as cowardly).

I posted the possibility earlier today (or last night) that perhaps he didn't admit the first shooting scene because he was ashamed he fled without shooting back. That might not be just fear of what his father thinks of him, but also a fear of what associates of his think of him.

 

[ATasteOfHoney]

Brian Williams?

Always admire your posts & sense of humor, sonjay!