NV NV - Wellington, WhtMale 574UMNV, 35-50, off Sand Canyon Road, Mar'92 - #1

[wenwe4]

I can work with Photo shop some more. I tried to change the photo into different types of renderings, but the hands show up more than the bird. Maybe I can cut out the blue and leave the only the bird and see what I get. I am an artist, but I don't know what I can add to the drawing without really knowing what kind of bird it is. Also, paint hues and values can change over time. Some browns can turn green, and so can reds and oranges. I think the paint on that shirt could be acrylic and they stay true to the color for years and hold up much better than stains. I also think from looking at it, it is a silk screen of the art on the shirt. Many mall venders did that, they would sell their own art, on tees. Don't know if that helps or not.

BBM - can you just leave blank space where the blue gloves were so that only the patterned parts would be shown? I am not sure if that would throw off the computer programs that are looking to match those images (with the white/blank space).

 

[wenwe4]

So then the bones had evidence of multiple stabbings but the soft tissue did not. Presumably because there was no soft tissue to go on any longer.. ?

That's a lot of rage, to be able to affect multiple bones during a stabbing such that you can tell by bones someone was killed by being stabbed multiple times, isn't it? Or am I speculating too far? Would something someone just offhandedly kept in their pocket, like a swiss army knife, be able to do that or can we pretty much count on it being a weapon-style-knife or hunting knife at least? (Of course if it WAS one of those larger knives then it makes me think again about the likelihood that the hands and feet were cut off and taken away from the scene... possibly in an effort to conceal the person's identity but also possibly because some people just like to cut off the feet of victims and throw them into water, as evidenced by my post a little ways back regarding some 15 feet found in one location and 12 in another IIRC).

BBM - there was no soft tissue - skeletal remains only. I am not sure where you saw "multiple stabs" - I only remember reports saying he was stabbed (which could be one time). Maybe I missed it - do you have a link?

 

[carbuff]

Guys, guys. I just started on the light box and look what I found. This is the extreme left-hand side of the material, to the left of MMarty's blue thumbs. There's stuff there that isn't part of the bird. Maybe a mountain and another bird?

Another note: the blue or gray color does not appear to extend above the black area that looks like shadow or another bird.

I blew it up some so you could see more clearly what I'm talking about, and annotated it. I think it's going to show small in this post but if you click on it you should be able to enlarge it. If it's not clear let me know and I'll see if I can clear it up.

Note: Second attachment shows the area I enlarged -- black box on left.

P.S. Also, whoever thought they saw the bird's head in the center of the black part of the design, it looks like you are probably right.

 

[Miss Muffet]

Edward Emerson Gale aka Joe Long
https://www.findthemissing.org/en/cases/18993/3/
Last Seen: Hanson, Massachusetts
Date Last Seen: March 28, 1986
Age last Seen: 36
Gender: Male
Race: White
Hair: Brown
Eyes: Brown
Height: 74
Weight 160-170
Circumstances: Ed is a missing mentally ill adult. He was on medication at the time of his disappearance but his family expects that is no longer the case. He had previously left for extended periods of time in the past, going to Arizona, Nevada and California. He left saying he was going on vacation. No contact since 1986. He had lived on the street during other travels.
.

 

[wenwe4]

Alpha NV UID¬¬ (p=post number on this thread with link)

A
Alley, John W 5’11 brown age 29 (p253) #71
Allgood, Kim L (*aka Galloway, Randy) 5’10 – 6’2” straw blonde (p254) #72
Ashby, Michael E 6’1 Red age 23 (rpt missing after date) (p222) #61
Ashley, Richard = R/O Dental (p117) #11
B
Baker, Jeffrey J 6’ brown (p213) #49
Beich, Bobby 5’11 brown (p51,103,147) #8 pending
Belliveau, Edmond J Jr 6’0 brown age 33 (p227) #65 (Canada)
Birchfield, Daniel A 5’ 6’2 Straw blonde (p137) #24
Black, David M 6’0 blonde (p158) #3 pending R/O
Bogart, Arden Jr 6’ brown age 24 dentals avail (p218) #57
Bonner, Mark 6’3 straw blonde age 24 (p544) #90
Bowman, William D 6’2 brown age 33 (p153) #28
Bratton, David 6’0 red age 27 (p300) #77
Breaux, Adam J 5'11 brown (dark?) age 50 (p534) #89 dentals/dna avail
Brennan, William 5’11 brown age 39 (p245) #69
Butler, Charles M 6’0 black hair? Age 46 (p242) #68
C
Cain, Frederick 6’0 Red/Auburn age 41 (p71,216) #12
Carlstrom, Brian E 6’0 Straw age 26 (p609) #93 dental/dna avail
Cassada, William B 5”11 – 6’3 red age 37 (p600) #91
Clarke, Michael T 6’0 – 7’ age 40-50 (p159) #36
Chouinard, Michael 60 blonde age 28 (p217) #54
D
Davies, Charles R III 5’11 age 24 brown missing L eye tooth (p154) #30
Dearmon, Howard 6’1 brown/bald age 52 (p208) #46
Denninger, Donald 6’, black (p446) #84
Dimick, James T 6’1 age 30 (p137) #26
Douglas, Barry K 6’0 Red age 31 (p71) #17
E
Eddy, Michael Rolf 6’0 brown (looks lighter) age 46 (p366) #79
Ervin, Kyle III 6’1 brown age 26 dentals/dna avail (p222) #64
F
Fernandex, Raymond J 6’0 – 6’1 Sandy age 47 (p357) #78
Fiala, Joseph 6’2 Straw Blonde (p137) #25
Flowers, John W 6’1 brown age 44 (p231) #67
G
Gale, Edward E (aka Long, Joe*) 6’2 brown age 36 (p604) #92 dentals avail
Garrison, Theodore W 6’0 brown (p534) #85
Galloway, Randy (aka *Allgood,Kim) 5’10 – 6’2” straw blonde (p254) #72
Garmire, Brenton 6’3 brown (p158) rugged outdoorsman #32
Geppert, John H III 5’10 – 6’ light brown age 33 (fx collar bone) (p377) #80
Goddard, Jason M 6’2 blonde(red?) age 20 (p213) #51
Gove, Michael B 5’9 brown age 41 (p217) R/O Dental/height (p221) #53
H
Hagel, Roy J 6’ brown age 38 (p222) #58
Haines, Joey Johnathan 6’1 straw blonde age 26 (p259,266) #74 WS thread
Heines, Clinton 6’3 blonde age 32 (p222) #62
Hickman, Wayne W 6’1 brown age mid 30’s #83
Hoffman, Allen A 5’10 blonde age 25 (teeth #3,14,30) (p202) #37
Holmen, Curtis A 6’5 blonde/red age 31 (p218) hair looks close #55
Huffman, Christopher = R/O dental (p277) #4
I
J
Johnston, Sidney E 6’0 brown age 47 (p534) #86
Jones, Curtis W 6’0 – 6’1 red age 47 (p129) #19 *DNA requested

K
Kellar, Robert R 6’0 brown (close in color) age 20 (p383) #82
Kreyche, J = R/O dna (p29) #1

L
Leach, Randy W 6’ brown age 22ish dentals/dna avail levi’s (p222) #59
Long, Joe (aka Gale, Edward E*) 6’2 brown age 36 (p604) #92 dental avail
Longman, Randy W 5’11 brown age 27 (p222) #60
Lopez, Gordon B 6’2 – 6’5” Dark Brn to Red age 21 (p71) #15
Lovely, David V 6’4 brown(red?) mid 20’s (p208) #42
Lutas, George 6’ brown age 26 (p256) #73
M
Matthews, Paul A 5’11” Red age 26 (p71) #16
McFarlin, Thomas L 5’10 – 6’3 red/brown age 34 (p157,193) #31
Meer, Douglas = R/O dna (p29) #2
Meyer, Richard S 5’10 dark brown age 39 (p218) #56
Michaud, Thomas A 6’1 brown/bald approx mid 30’s (p380) #81
Mize, David W 5'10 brn age 28 #88 (p534) dentals/dna avail
Moody, Thomas 5’11 brown (p158) #34
Moreau, Timothy D tall red hair age 21 (p208) #43
Morris, Teddy 5’10 brown missing teeth (p158) R/O Dental (p194) #35
N
Negeulourart, Louis 6’1 brown age 61 (p202) #39
Newcombe, Ralph A 5’11 brown age 35 (p213) #48
O
O’Brian, Barry B 6’2 brown age 34 (p257) #74
O’Carroll, Jeffrey L 5’10 – 6’ age 36 (p208) #41
O’Kane, Timothy R 6’2 – 6’4” brown age 28-34, (P118,233) #9
P
Page, Gordon T 6’0 – 6’3” brown (p111) #18 R/O Dental (p121)
Patterson, Kenneth B 5’9 – 6’2 age 28 (p137) #22
Peranteau, Clifford R 6’1 blonde age 23 (p60,157,197) #10
Post, Stanley 6’0 brown (p158) #33
Proctor, James L 6’ brown age 47 (p208) #44
Q
R
Ranken, Brian = R/O Dental (p36) #5
Robinson, Luke 6’0 – 6’2 brown age 24 (p154) missing 2 teeth #29
S
Simmons, Jack Red/Auburn age 24 p71 Not Considered (p190) #14
Sloat, Rodney L 6’1 brown age 31 (p227) #66 (Canada)
Smith, Luther V 6’0 sandy (p202) #38
Smith, Michael (p135) #20 R/O Dental (p142)
Sparrow, Timothy 6’3 Red/Auburn age 40 (p71) #13
Spencer Dean T (p38) – Temp R/O (not at this time) #7
Stansberry, Clyde E 5’11 brown red/auburn age 44 (p246) #70
Stonecipher, William C 5’10 blonde age 32 (p222) #63
Storkson, Billy 5’9 age 36 (p216) #52
Strassburger, Dale W 5’8 – 6’2” Straw Blonde age 35 (p137) #27
Stricklin, Michael K 6'1 brown age 30 (p534) #87 no dental dna?

T
Turpin, Daniel R 6’ brown age 26 (p213) #50
U
V
Vaughan, Wallace L 5’10 brown age 27 (p144,145,146) #21 R/O Height (p150)
Vucurevich, Milan Jr 6’5” brown/grey age 44 (p267) #76
W
Wagner, John W 5’10 brown (p204,209) Possible R/0 (p219) #47
Wakefield, Bradley J 6’1 brown (p208) #45
Ware, Kenneth T 6’ straw blonde age 22 (p137) #23
X
Y
Z
Zinza, James 6’1 sandy (p38) #6

 

[Miss Muffet]

I just added Gale above your update, and I have a few more I'm entering right now.

 

[GGE]

BBM - there was no soft tissue - skeletal remains only. I am not sure where you saw "multiple stabs" - I only remember reports saying he was stabbed (which could be one time). Maybe I missed it - do you have a link?

"The Nevada Division of Investigation is again asking for help from the public in identifying the skeletal remains of an adult male found in Sand Canyon on March 12, 1992 outside of Wellington, Nevada. Investigators indicate the victim's death was a result of multiple stab wounds."

http://www.dmvnv.com/news/99-186.htm

 

[carbuff]

BBM - can you just leave blank space where the blue gloves were so that only the patterned parts would be shown? I am not sure if that would throw off the computer programs that are looking to match those images (with the white/blank space).

My experience is that you'll get different results each way, and it's worth trying both.

Likewise with search terms. This morning I tried "hunting hawk" and was getting much closer to what our bird looks like.

 

[Miss Muffet]

This guy probably died the year he disappeared, but it seems he was last in NV and has reddish hair.

Brian Eric Carlstrom
https://www.findthemissing.org/en/cases/2618/0/
Last Seen: Silver Lakes, CA
Date Last Seen: August 9, 1986
Age Last Seen: 26
Gender: Male
Race: White
Hair: Strawberry
Eyes: Blue
Height: 72
Weight: 190-200
Circumstances: Brian Eric Carlstrom was 26 years of age when last seen in 1986. He is described as a White male, 6 ft, 190-200 lbs, Blonde hair with full beard, blue eyes (wears prescription glasses), with burn scars on arms, torso, and neck. Although he was a resident of Colton, CA, he was staying at a friend's house in Silver Lakes (near Helendale, CA). He left this location on the morning of August 9, 1986, intending to travel to the Las Vegas area. There was no further contact. Investigation revealed a possible sighting of Carlstrom by employees of the Saddle West Casino in Pahrump, NV, probably on the evening of August 9th. On September 14, 1986, Carlstrom's vehicle was found abandoned in a remote desert area 20 miles north of Pahrump.

 

[wenwe4]

I just added Gale above your update, and I have a few more I'm entering right now.

I can still edit my quote for a little while so Gale got added (with aka listed) - Got Carlstrom in too

 

[GGE]

My concern with the guy listed a post or two above this is that he weighed like 200 pounds which probably would not be a size 32 waist. IMO only of course! But my middle kid is 5' 10" and 135 - 140 pounds and wears a 28 - 29" waist.. so I just am guessing that if he was two inches and sixty pounds larger he'd go up more sizes than just from 29 to 32, but who knows?

 

[carbuff]

My concern with the guy listed a post or two above this is that he weighed like 200 pounds which probably would not be a size 32 waist. IMO only of course! But my middle kid is 5' 10" and 135 - 140 pounds and wears a 28 - 29" waist.. so I just am guessing that if he was two inches and sixty pounds larger he'd go up more sizes than just from 29 to 32, but who knows?

He could have lost weight in the interval, especially if he was living on the road.

 

[GGE]

He could have lost weight in the interval, especially if he was living on the road.

Totally correct of course. I was thinking that someone who appeared to be living more as a drifter would just tie something around the waist of their pants and carry on, not buy a new pair of Levi's in a smaller size, but obviously we know nothing about the guy so I'm glad you pointed that out!

 

[GGE]

When they put together a likely age range for a deceased male based on skeletal remains, which things are the hallmarks for ages? I know, for example, in children they can check for the fontanel to have closed up on the skull. In females, the rotation of the pelvis could help indicate pre or post puberty. Things like growth plates, and whether the toes are largely cartilage still, or have turned to bone (you don't go en pointe in ballet until you're older because of this), things like that... what are the determining factors specifically for adult males, anyone know?

In a person of this possible height/weight ratio I keep thinking about syndromes and conditions like Marfan Syndrome for example (which includes extra long arms and legs compared to the torso, being tall and very thin, and crowding of teeth sometimes requiring removal of some), and some things like that include earlier closing of growth plates etc, which could throw off dating/aging of the skeleton. One might assume a skeleton was older than it really is if they had certain conditions.

Just trying to think outside the box.

 

[GGE]

oh regarding the detective's statement that DNA may be able to shed light on eye color - my experience is NOTHING like yours, I will say that up front. But I paid for direct to consumer DNA testing on myself recently in order to run my raw DNA through Promethease and get my health SNP information for health/wellness and Ancestry/Genealogical purposes via 23andme dot com and their SNPs largely do suggest that my eye color should be what it IS, however not all of their suggestions from my DNA actually match up to my physical characeristics, most notably they do kick back suggestions based on my DNA that my eyes COULD be another color.

For what it's worth.

 

[carbuff]

Caveat: I make no guarantees I've remembered this correctly or used the right terminology.

I took a forensics class a couple of years ago, where they said that for adults, they look at things like bone density (especially in women), whether arthritis has started to develop, how much wear is showing on teeth and joints, and that sort of thing. There are changes at the sternum and in the wrists.

Also, the skull continues to change throughout life. The plates fuse by a certain age, but then they continue to smooth out, so on an elderly person's skull the sutures will be a lot less prominent than in a younger adult.

Lots of things can influence the markers, however. Poverty, malnutrition, bad hygiene, good ancestors, heavy physical labor, childbirth, etc. etc. etc. So yeah, a younger person who has been living on the road, sleeping on the ground, doing day labor, etc. might well show skeletal signs of being older than their calendar age.

In many cases, all they can say is "adult." Old enough so all the adolescent changes have happened, young enough that there's not a lot of obvious wear or arthritis, etc.

 

[Miss Muffet]

My concern with the guy listed a post or two above this is that he weighed like 200 pounds which probably would not be a size 32 waist. IMO only of course!

He could have dropped a lot of weight while living the nomadic lifestyle for six years before the body was found.

I'm not picking apart any leads others suggest. The detectives want all leads that are remotely possible.

But my middle kid is 5' 10" and 135 - 140 pounds and wears a 28 - 29" waist.. so I just am guessing that if he was two inches and sixty pounds larger he'd go up more sizes than just from 29 to 32, but who knows?

Kids these days wear their pants looser. My son is 6'-1" or 6'-2" (I should measure him) and wears 32" waist at 160lbs. His pants are loose on him compared to how people wore clothes back in the early 90s.

 

[carbuff]

oh regarding the detective's statement that DNA may be able to shed light on eye color - my experience is NOTHING like yours, I will say that up front. But I paid for direct to consumer DNA testing on myself recently in order to run my raw DNA through Promethease and get my health SNP information for health/wellness and Ancestry/Genealogical purposes via 23andme dot com and their SNPs largely do suggest that my eye color should be what it IS, however not all of their suggestions from my DNA actually match up to my physical characeristics, most notably they do kick back suggestions based on my DNA that my eyes COULD be another color.

For what it's worth.

My son had his done through the same company. It correctly identified him as half Ashkenazic Jew--Mr. Carbuff's ancestry--but that would not help identify him if he went missing because neither Mr. Carbuff nor the rest of the family is the least observant and there would likely not be anything in the records to indicate Jewish background. So while it might be helpful, it's not necessarily a good clue for locating a person.

 

[GGE]

He could have dropped a lot of weight while living the nomadic lifestyle for six years before the body was found.

I'm not picking apart any leads others suggest. The detectives want all leads that are remotely possible.

I'm sorry if I offended your or came across like I'm picking your suggestion apart. I didn't mean to. I tend towards some social awkwardness in combination with my obsessive interests, I truly apologize and honestly didn't realize I'd come off badly. Thank you for letting me know I need to work on that.

 

[GGE]

My son had his done through the same company. It correctly identified him as half Ashkenazic Jew--Mr. Carbuff's ancestry--but that would not help identify him if he went missing because neither Mr. Carbuff nor the rest of the family is the least observant and there would likely not be anything in the records to indicate Jewish background. So while it might be helpful, it's not necessarily a good clue for locating a person.

Not the ancestry part, no. You have to pay extra and take your raw DNA over to Promethease and run it through their program because the FDA isn't allowing them to supply health reports directly any longer. The raw DNA is where the good info is at, they just call tell it to you right now because of the law.