NY - Jordan Neely, killed by chokehold in subway during mental health crisis, Manhattan, 1 May 2023 *arrest* #2

[MyBelle]

The Vazquez video I've seen starts where Penny already had Neely down and in an established chokehold (for how long prior to that, I don't know). Penny does not release until 2:54 into that video. That's a MINIMUM of 2 minutes 54 seconds that Neely was in the chokehold (not factoring in however long he had been held prior to the start of the video).

Regardless of any pre-existing condition(s) that could ultimately be found to be a contributing factor, any person reasonably trained in a chokehold technique has to know that a chokehold for that length of time can kill someone who doesn't even have any pre-existing condition.

"His death resulted from compression of the neck, the city's medical examiner ruled."

The ME has already ruled that, not only was the MOD homicide, but that the actual COD was compression of the neck. Even if a pre-existing condition was a contributing factor, had Penny not done what he did, it is unlikely that Neely would have stood there at that moment in time and died with his neck being compressed by unknown forces. The COD of compression that killed Neely was applied to him by another person = MOD homicide (manslaughter).

We still don't have an indictment in this case, but an interesting 2017 precedent in Alaska where a person was arrested and charged with 2nd degree murder for punching the victim in the head. The victim had a pre-existing condition (aneurysm) that was a contributing factor. Although not indicted for murder, he was indicted on the criminally negligent homicide and manslaughter charges. Unknown what verdict a jury may have reached on an NG plea because the defendant plead to the criminally negligent homicide and the manslaughter charge was dismissed.

Edited Para 3 to change COD to "compression of the neck" (instead of "the chokehold").

My point is that we do not know how many lbs. of pressure Penny was applying to JN's neck and that is why he was only charged with Manslaughter 2. If 33lbs of pressure was applied, unconsciousness would have been within 10 seconds (see link) and I think the charge would have been murder. It's obvious 33 lbs. of pressure wasn't applied because JN continued to struggle, and at least two other passengers helped restrain him.

JN continued to struggle for several minutes. To me, this shows Penny's actions were intended to restrain only until LE arrived. Witnesses said Penny asked others to call 911 so he knew LE was on the way and that's why he and the other passengers continued to restrain JN until he stopped resisting.

In your example about the Alaska case, the charge was 2nd degree murder. There must have been evidence that the defendant intended to kill the victim and, in fact, he did enter a guilty plea.

In this case, the DA waited to file charges and then charged only with Manslaughter 2 because the DA could NOT find any evidence of intent. To me, the ME taking tissue samples from the neck was to find out if there was evidence of increased pressure to the windpipe/trachea or any other factors contributing to JN's death. I am surprised that more than 3 weeks after JN's unfortunate death, there still is no grand jury indictment.

JMO

https://www.pottstown.org/DocumentCenter/View/211/Strangulation-Information-for-Victims?bidId=#:~:text=However%2C%20if%20the%20pressure%20is,5%20minutes%2C%20if%20strangulation%20persists.

Very little pressure on both the carotid arteries and/or veins for ten seconds is necessary to cause unconsciousness. However, if the pressure is immediately released, consciousness will be regained within ten seconds. To completely close off the trachea (windpipe), three times as much pressure (33 lbs.) is required.

 

[10ofRods]

"I tried to start filming from that moment, but I didn’t because I couldn’t see anything — it was too crowded. And then I heard him take off his jacket. He bundled it up and just threw it on the floor, very violently. You could hear the sound of the zipper hitting the floor. At that moment, when he threw the jacket, the people who were sitting around him stood up and moved away. He kept standing there and he kept yelling." ‘I Wasn’t Thinking That Anybody Was Going to Die.’

For those who keep insisting Jordan Neely didn't act out any violence, or attack anyone, or make any direct threats to anyone, or behave in any kind of violent way... I wonder if you can take one guess at why those sitting around him that day on the train, stood up and moved away?

Do you think throwing clothing on the floor is worthy of calling police over? Because that should have been done (and if it was done, it will go a long way to helping Penny's case). No one should lay hands on another person (which crosses a line that throwing a jacket does not) without at least attempting to handle through proper means. My understanding is that only 30 more seconds needed to pass before the car could be emptied (and that many people had cell phones).

Indeed, going forward, I assume subway security and police will respond to such calls. I don't consider throwing things "violence" (or I wouldn't have lasted 40 years in the classroom and many students would have been arrested). In high schools, it's even worse. We can't only apply the law sometimes, IMO. If we're at the point where throwing a jacket is a violent attack (and this sets a precedent), then, well, we all need to report stuff way more than we are. It might actually help some of the more mentally ill realize they need more help.

Does anyone think that police would respond to a loud voice and jacket throwing? I think they would if the ranting continued, where I live, as I've seen a fairly rapid response (but the yelling guy had halfway disrobed and was going in and out of businesses - LE seem to respond more quickly to businesses than to homes, in my world).

IMO.

 

[squareandrabbet]

My point is that we do not know how many lbs. of pressure Penny was applying to JN's neck and that is why he was only charged with Manslaughter 2. If 33lbs of pressure was applied, unconsciousness would have been within 10 seconds (see link) and I think the charge would have been murder. It's obvious 33 lbs. of pressure wasn't applied because JN continued to struggle, and at least two other passengers helped restrain him.

JN continued to struggle for several minutes. To me, this shows Penny's actions were intended to restrain only until LE arrived. Witnesses said Penny asked others to call 911 so he knew LE was on the way and that's why he and the other passengers continued to restrain JN until he stopped resisting.

In your example about the Alaska case, the charge was 2nd degree murder. There must have been evidence that the defendant intended to kill the victim and, in fact, he did enter a guilty plea.

In this case, the DA waited to file charges and then charged only with Manslaughter 2 because the DA could NOT find any evidence of intent. To me, the ME taking tissue samples from the neck was to find out if there was evidence of increased pressure to the windpipe/trachea or any other factors contributing to JN's death. I am surprised that more than 3 weeks after JN's unfortunate death, there still is no grand jury indictment.

JMO

https://www.pottstown.org/DocumentCenter/View/211/Strangulation-Information-for-Victims?bidId=#:~:text=However%2C%20if%20the%20pressure%20is,5%20minutes%2C%20if%20strangulation%20persists.

Very little pressure on both the carotid arteries and/or veins for ten seconds is necessary to cause unconsciousness. However, if the pressure is immediately released, consciousness will be regained within ten seconds. To completely close off the trachea (windpipe), three times as much pressure (33 lbs.) is required.

Which is, IMO, why Mr. Vasquez' (IMO specious) plaint of "15 minutes" is so important.

If we take him seriously, and believe that Daniel Penny really applied pressure to Jordan Neely's neck for 15 straight minutes, nonstop;

then Penny would literally have to be in the fugue state equivalent of a frenzied dog, unable of being called off, worrying at a dead corpse, for multiple minutes, "just to make sure" that said corpse is really deceased;

and IF this is the case, then we're talking about an entirely different story... but no one has said that Penny was in a frenzied or fugue state, IIRC, nor even that he "simply" refused to be called off/dissuaded; not even Mr. Vasquez.

 

[10ofRods]

My point is that we do not know how many lbs. of pressure Penny was applying to JN's neck and that is why he was only charged with Manslaughter 2. If 33lbs of pressure was applied, unconsciousness would have been within 10 seconds (see link) and I think the charge would have been murder. It's obvious 33 lbs. of pressure wasn't applied because JN continued to struggle, and at least two other passengers helped restrain him.

JN continued to struggle for several minutes. To me, this shows Penny's actions were intended to restrain only until LE arrived. Witnesses said Penny asked others to call 911 so he knew LE was on the way and that's why he and the other passengers continued to restrain JN until he stopped resisting.

In your example about the Alaska case, the charge was 2nd degree murder. There must have been evidence that the defendant intended to kill the victim and, in fact, he did enter a guilty plea.

In this case, the DA waited to file charges and then charged only with Manslaughter 2 because the DA could NOT find any evidence of intent. To me, the ME taking tissue samples from the neck was to find out if there was evidence of increased pressure to the windpipe/trachea or any other factors contributing to JN's death. I am surprised that more than 3 weeks after JN's unfortunate death, there still is no grand jury indictment.

JMO

https://www.pottstown.org/DocumentCenter/View/211/Strangulation-Information-for-Victims?bidId=#:~:text=However%2C%20if%20the%20pressure%20is,5%20minutes%2C%20if%20strangulation%20persists.

Very little pressure on both the carotid arteries and/or veins for ten seconds is necessary to cause unconsciousness. However, if the pressure is immediately released, consciousness will be regained within ten seconds. To completely close off the trachea (windpipe), three times as much pressure (33 lbs.) is required.

I agree that for the majority of the video, Penny was not applying maximum pressure. However, he too had his limits (and it would be very scary to let go). However, with two other men to help him, there could have been communication about how to restrain Neely until police came.

I agree that the neck study is being done to get some idea of when the actual inhibition of breathing started - and how long it took until death. This could go badly for Penny, because in other cases of strangulation deaths, juries have decided that the defendant had time to think it over and refrain from lethal force. This is one of those types of cases.

Oddly, I do expect Penny to take the stand in his own defense, if it comes to that. But I think a deal will be reached.

IMO.

 

[Ontario Mom]

Do you think throwing clothing on the floor is worthy of calling police over? Because that should have been done (and if it was done, it will go a long way to helping Penny's case). No one should lay hands on another person (which crosses a line that throwing a jacket does not) without at least attempting to handle through proper means. My understanding is that only 30 more seconds needed to pass before the car could be emptied (and that many people had cell phones).

Indeed, going forward, I assume subway security and police will respond to such calls. I don't consider throwing things "violence" (or I wouldn't have lasted 40 years in the classroom and many students would have been arrested). In high schools, it's even worse. We can't only apply the law sometimes, IMO. If we're at the point where throwing a jacket is a violent attack (and this sets a precedent), then, well, we all need to report stuff way more than we are. It might actually help some of the more mentally ill realize they need more help.

Does anyone think that police would respond to a loud voice and jacket throwing? I think they would if the ranting continued, where I live, as I've seen a fairly rapid response (but the yelling guy had halfway disrobed and was going in and out of businesses - LE seem to respond more quickly to businesses than to homes, in my world).

IMO.

The man who filmed the restraint stated Neely threw his jacket on the floor violently, and stood there and kept yelling.
I asked, why anyone thinks those folks stood up and moved away.
I haven't seen anyone answer why they think those passengers did that.

As for calling 911, that was done, at least 5 times according to all the links I've read & have been posted here.

 

[10ofRods]

Well worth the read, apologies if it has been posted previously. The System That Failed Jordan Neely

Great article, although I think we've got a better grasp on the timing and the facts than that author did (he does not specialize in crime stories; he writes various general interest pieces).

He does however show the current confusion over exactly what happened, which I appreciate very much.

Thanks for posting!

 

[Ontario Mom]

I'm sure we all can. I can also say with absolute certainty that I would have been wary and uncomfortable at the very least, and I think I would have retreated too if possible, and I would have no doubt been concerned that JN could have turned violent.

I, for one, am not disputing that, I am however, disputing that he did anything violent, or attacked anybody at that time, in that subway car on that day.

Okay allow me to re-phrase.

If you were sitting there and JN started screaming about how he doesn't care if he goes to jail, that he'd take a bullet, and he'd kill all the MF'ers... and was looking right at you, or the person sitting next to you, as he yelled those things, then threw his jacket to the floor, (or vice versa) would you consider that violent even if he never physically touched anyone?

 

[elevatorific]

The man who filmed the restraint stated Neely threw his jacket on the floor violently, and stood there and kept yelling.
I asked, why anyone thinks those folks stood up and moved away.
I haven't seen anyone answer why they think those passengers did that.

As for calling 911, that was done, at least 5 times according to all the links I've read & have been posted here.

BBM - I assumed it was a rhetorical question because to me the answer is obvious.

They moved away because that is the advisable thing to do if you feel uncomfortable, and yelling and throwing jackets would make any reasonable person feel uncomfortable. I think a reasonable person likely feels somewhat uncomfortable and moves away from the source of discomfort on the NY subway, or in any major city public space, on a regular basis.

None of that warrants a civilian laying hands on a person, let alone deadly force. IMO.

 

[Ontario Mom]

Well worth the read, apologies if it has been posted previously. The System That Failed Jordan Neely

Behind a paywall for me.

 

[imstilla.grandma]

The man who filmed the restraint stated Neely threw his jacket on the floor violently, and stood there and kept yelling.
I asked, why anyone thinks those folks stood up and moved away.
I haven't seen anyone answer why they think those passengers did that.

As for calling 911, that was done, at least 5 times according to all the links I've read & have been posted here.

Fear of escalation? Fear of getting hurt? Fear of getting involved?
Just plain old fear.

 

[imstilla.grandma]

Behind a paywall for me.

Try here:

The System That Failed Jordan Neely

Jordan Neely’s death highlights New York City’s broken approach to mental illness and homelessness. Solutions like Fountain House can pave a path forward.

www.fountainhouse.org

 

[IceIce9]

Okay allow me to re-phrase.

If you were sitting there and JN started screaming about how he doesn't care if he goes to jail, that he'd take a bullet, and he'd kill all the MF'ers... and was looking right at you, or the person sitting next to you, as he yelled those things, then threw his jacket to the floor, (or vice versa) would you consider that violent even if he never physically touched anyone?

I will add what if your sister, daughter, mother, or grandmother were sitting there while JN looked at them and screamed those things?

 

[10ofRods]

The man who filmed the restraint stated Neely threw his jacket on the floor violently, and stood there and kept yelling.
I asked, why anyone thinks those folks stood up and moved away.
I haven't seen anyone answer why they think those passengers did that.

As for calling 911, that was done, at least 5 times according to all the links I've read & have been posted here.

Just because another person uses the word "violently" doesn't mean that all of us automatically have to accept that throwing a piece of clothing falls under any regular definition of violence.

I do not think it rises to the level of violent assault, personally. As I said, many of us see things of this nature every day. In the New Yorker article linked above there are other things mentioned that are so commonplace on the subway (and would be more disturbing to me than the jacket throwing). If someone is masturbating in front of me on the subway, is that a form of sexual assault? What if it's done without showing their genitals? Is that still "indecent" behavior?

In the academic and legal literature, there are fine distinctions between "aggression," "menacing" and "violent assault." This was not a violent assault, IMO (the jacket). It probably does rise to the level of "menacing," though. Looks like menacing in the third degree by New York law:

https://www.joeyjacksonlaw.com/blog/2021/01/what-is-menacing-and-how-serious-of-an-offense-is-it-in-new-york/#:~:text=By%20New%20York%20law%2C%20menacing,death%20or%20serious%20physical%20injury.

Therefore, passengers had a legal reason to call 911 (thereby protecting themselves from some of the legal consequences should things have moved toward an actual assault). If Penny had put Neely in an ordinary chokehold (both of them standing), he could then have asked others to frisk Neely and I doubt Penny would have been charged with anything. If he had released the chokehold in favor of a less lethal means of restricting Neely's movements (by asking for help from the other passengers - not all were terrified, as some did not leave the car when able to do so). There are several common ways to do this (we get some training in this in the schools here in California - because, well, we have incidents; I would be unable to implement any of the methods on anyone other than a petite woman - but, there have been times when some very aggro women have been in the class; the only gun in my classroom was carried by a petite woman).

Just brainstorming, because the world isn't going to solve these problems right away.

IMO.

Okay allow me to re-phrase.

If you were sitting there and JN started screaming about how he doesn't care if he goes to jail, that he'd take a bullet, and he'd kill all the MF'ers... and was looking right at you, or the person sitting next to you, as he yelled those things, then threw his jacket to the floor, (or vice versa) would you consider that violent even if he never physically touched anyone?

No. I would consider that verbal assault and menacing/harassment. But we do get to make these decisions on our own. If the person in question was on my own private property, you bet I'd call police. If I was surrounded by other people, I'd make my way to the door, but keep in line of sight of the yeller (watching their hands).

But most of all, if I thought someone was out of control and about to become violent, I'd dial 911. After dialing 911, I'd dial the non-emergency police number (or text it, where I live). I have the phone number of a watch commander in my phone for a more urgent emergency (but this is not a big city where I live - New Yorkers would be busy all day long calling 911, I expect).

There's certainly a cultural element to this. Those of us living in big cities have slowly adapted, in terms of our sociocultural expectations. But this did happen in NYC and will be tried in front of a NYC jury, so it is that jury pool's definitions that matter, not ours.

We hear a screamer/screams late at night every once in a while. We have not called police (we always figure it's a few houses away and that other people will call). Again, if a screamer comes on my property (as happened just one time - and we knew who the person was, but he was acting deranged) we call 911 and get ready for Plan B.

Can I ask you if you would have called police if this happened on your public transport? (Just hypothetically).

IMO. To me it looks like there have been protests and support on both sides of this case.

 

[MyBelle]

Which is, IMO, why Mr. Vasquez' (IMO specious) plaint of "15 minutes" is so important.

If we take him seriously, and believe that Daniel Penny really applied pressure to Jordan Neely's neck for 15 straight minutes, nonstop;

then Penny would literally have to be in the fugue state equivalent of a frenzied dog, unable of being called off, worrying at a dead corpse, for multiple minutes, "just to make sure" that said corpse is really deceased;

and IF this is the case, then we're talking about an entirely different story... but no one has said that Penny was in a frenzied or fugue state, IIRC, nor even that he "simply" refused to be called off/dissuaded; not even Mr. Vasquez.

BBM. I think the "15 minutes" is a guess, not a fact. Mr. Vasquez told the media he left when police arrived. In the "curbed" link posted upthread, he said something about worrying that his further involvement might create problems because he and his wife are recent immigrants. He also expressed regret for giving his name to the NY Post yet he gave his name to Curbed and posted his video on social media. He's not a reliable witness, imo.

 

[MyBelle]

The man who filmed the restraint stated Neely threw his jacket on the floor violently, and stood there and kept yelling.
I asked, why anyone thinks those folks stood up and moved away.
I haven't seen anyone answer why they think those passengers did that.

As for calling 911, that was done, at least 5 times according to all the links I've read & have been posted here.

Good points! JP was throwing garbage at the passengers. If it was just his jacket, I doubt it would be described as garbage nor do I think that is the sole reason passengers tried to move away. Much more was going on that we don't know about.

JMO

Jordan Neely's chokehold death points to the criminalization of homelessness, advocates say

Jordan Neely, a young Black man who was killed on a New York City subway train after being deemed a threat, grappled with both homelessness and mental health crises. “Having a mental illness is often a cause of homelessness, and the experience of being homeless makes it worse,” says one expert.

news.yahoo.com

Passengers told police that Neely had been acting in a “hostile and erratic manner,” throwing garbage at commuters, screaming for food and something to drink.

 

[Rolypolyoly]

Okay allow me to re-phrase.

If you were sitting there and JN started screaming about how he doesn't care if he goes to jail, that he'd take a bullet, and he'd kill all the MF'ers... and was looking right at you, or the person sitting next to you, as he yelled those things, then threw his jacket to the floor, (or vice versa) would you consider that violent even if he never physically touched anyone?

No. I would consider it aggressive, and intimidating but not violent. I would definitely be very aware of the potential risk of violence, but those actions, to me, aren't what I would consider violent.

Like I said in post though, I would absolutely be nervous, probably even a little scared, but that isn't the same as considering his alleged actions violent, and as far as I have read, he wasn't directing his words or his jacket to anyone person in particular, and the only account I have read about him allegedly saying he "would kill m-fkr" is from the woman Penny asked to give a statement. Nobody else that has spoken out to MSM has said they heard that.

I'm not saying he didn't say it, or that nobody else heard it, or that they haven't made such statements to the police, just that as fat as I am aware, they have not been made to MSM. I'm happy to accept links that say otherwise as I don't claim to have read everything.

 

[Ontario Mom]

No. I would consider that verbal assault and menacing/harassment.

I'd 100% consider it violent behavior, even if he never physically touched anyone.

Exactly the same way I'd consider it violent behavior in a domestic situation where one party screams threats, slams doors and breaks things... even if they never physically touched the other person.

My guess is, the passengers got up and moved away, because they also considered it violent behavior.

jmo

 

[squareandrabbet]

Just because another person uses the word "violently" doesn't mean that all of us automatically have to accept that throwing a piece of clothing falls under any regular definition of violence.

I do not think it rises to the level of violent assault, personally. As I said, many of us see things of this nature every day. In the New Yorker article linked above there are other things mentioned that are so commonplace on the subway (and would be more disturbing to me than the jacket throwing). If someone is masturbating in front of me on the subway, is that a form of sexual assault? What if it's done without showing their genitals? Is that still "indecent" behavior?

In the academic and legal literature, there are fine distinctions between "aggression," "menacing" and "violent assault." This was not a violent assault, IMO (the jacket). It probably does rise to the level of "menacing," though. Looks like menacing in the third degree by New York law:

https://www.joeyjacksonlaw.com/blog/2021/01/what-is-menacing-and-how-serious-of-an-offense-is-it-in-new-york/#:~:text=By%20New%20York%20law%2C%20menacing,death%20or%20serious%20physical%20injury.

Therefore, passengers had a legal reason to call 911 (thereby protecting themselves from some of the legal consequences should things have moved toward an actual assault). If Penny had put Neely in an ordinary chokehold (both of them standing), he could then have asked others to frisk Neely and I doubt Penny would have been charged with anything. If he had released the chokehold in favor of a less lethal means of restricting Neely's movements (by asking for help from the other passengers - not all were terrified, as some did not leave the car when able to do so). There are several common ways to do this (we get some training in this in the schools here in California - because, well, we have incidents; I would be unable to implement any of the methods on anyone other than a petite woman - but, there have been times when some very aggro women have been in the class; the only gun in my classroom was carried by a petite woman).

Just brainstorming, because the world isn't going to solve these problems right away.

IMO.



No. I would consider that verbal assault and menacing/harassment. But we do get to make these decisions on our own. If the person in question was on my own private property, you bet I'd call police. If I was surrounded by other people, I'd make my way to the door, but keep in line of sight of the yeller (watching their hands).

But most of all, if I thought someone was out of control and about to become violent, I'd dial 911. After dialing 911, I'd dial the non-emergency police number (or text it, where I live). I have the phone number of a watch commander in my phone for a more urgent emergency (but this is not a big city where I live - New Yorkers would be busy all day long calling 911, I expect).

There's certainly a cultural element to this. Those of us living in big cities have slowly adapted, in terms of our sociocultural expectations. But this did happen in NYC and will be tried in front of a NYC jury, so it is that jury pool's definitions that matter, not ours.

We hear a screamer/screams late at night every once in a while. We have not called police (we always figure it's a few houses away and that other people will call). Again, if a screamer comes on my property (as happened just one time - and we knew who the person was, but he was acting deranged) we call 911 and get ready for Plan B.

Can I ask you if you would have called police if this happened on your public transport? (Just hypothetically).

IMO. To me it looks like there have been protests and support on both sides of this case.

I saw someone in my neighborhood getting beaten up and kicked on the sidewalk, one weekend in the wee hours when I still lived in the Bronx; and I absolutely jumped up and went straight to the room where my then-cordless phone lived.

Unfortunately by the time I had raced back the victim was gone off the sidewalk, I assume having gotten out from under their own steam; and wound up not calling.

Asking if I would have pulled the emergency brake on Mr. Neely?...maybe.

It takes a lot to het up New Yorkers to the point of view where they'll even consider this.

Most are passive because they don't want to rock the boat, as in this instance:

Video shows man grab woman against her will on NYC subway and carry her off train

Sonny Alloway, 48, was arrested Monday and charged with unlawful imprisonment.

www.nbcnews.com

 

[squareandrabbet]

BBM. I think the "15 minutes" is a guess, not a fact. Mr. Vasquez told the media he left when police arrived. In the "curbed" link posted upthread, he said something about worrying that his further involvement might create problems because he and his wife are recent immigrants. He also expressed regret for giving his name to the NY Post yet he gave his name to Curbed and posted his video on social media. He's not a reliable witness, imo.

I completely agree, especially considering all that is actually known about how long (or short, as the case may be) it takes for pressure on the neck to incapacitate or kill; but it's a pretty lavish wild irresponsible guess, IMO; and did irreparable harm to what might be the real events of this story in the public perception, considering people are still forced to use it in some way, shape, or form as a benchmark, because he put it out there.

 

[squareandrabbet]

Okay allow me to re-phrase.

If you were sitting there and JN started screaming about how he doesn't care if he goes to jail, that he'd take a bullet, and he'd kill all the MF'ers... and was looking right at you, or the person sitting next to you, as he yelled those things, then threw his jacket to the floor, (or vice versa) would you consider that violent even if he never physically touched anyone?

I'd certainly be alarmed; and I'd BOLO for a knife, gun, or similar.

Also, it's entirely possible (IMO), considering the scenario, that part of what was happening for 15 minutes (or 12, or 8 of them) straight; was in fact Mr. Neely screaming and cutting up at the other passengers, independent of any other action anyone took.

I mean, if you seem dedicated in/to causing destruction, then obviously people are going to be more alarmed than if you, say shrieked a single bloodcurdling shriek out loud for 3-5 seconds, and then sat in silence staring down at your hands.

In that case, I should imagine everyone would just be counting the seconds until their stop arrived and until they could jump off.