OH Pike Co., 8 in Rhoden Family Murdered Over Custody Issue, 4 Members Wagner Family Arrested #50

[OhioBlues]

I too, was sadly shocked today. I really thought RN was going to report to jail today. I really thought JD was not going to put up with any more nonsense. I have spent the afternoon trying to figure out what direction this whole thing is headed.

I watched the beginning of the hearing but was unable to see the whole thing. Bottom line, it appears the W4 and their accomplices might actually get away with murder because of a lax legal system in Pike County. I was stunned by RN's indigence and "sass", she has a lot on the line. I will watch the rest later tonight.

But then again, the prosecution may be giving them enough rope (and then some) to hang themselves.

I think all along the defendants had been trying to use pre-planned gestures and props to communicate. A message hidden in AW's "street clothes". That backfired because it was caught. But the prosecution also gained valuable information, whatever message was being sent in the clothing. I suspect LE might have also known what the signals meant from the conversations they were privy to in the "revenge conversations".

FW wearing the sunglasses, I don't think it was just bad fashion sense. I think it was a message of some sort. Like - things are looking sunny - all is good. She only started wearing them in court, indoors when it looked like her case was going to be dismissed....or at least, temporarily suspended.

In the phone calls between RN and AW, they talked about the case. How could anyone assume that phone calls to or from jail would not be recorded? At the same time, the state was gathering even more valuable evidence to prosecute the cases. Why would LE stop the phone calls and communication? I'm guessing that they basically have AW and RN on tape alluding/admitting to the fact she/they were guilty and their level of involvement. Specifically, the details. That tape could be pretty powerful if played during the trials.

There would be no benefit to the prosecution by sending RN to jail. I really don't think she is much of a flight risk. She allegedly has no money and I'm guessing they would confiscate her passport if the had one. The only thing that might happen if they let her remain free on bond is that LE might attain even more evidence and recordings sealing their guilt. Not circumstantial, but them admitting to the crime/s. If she is guilty, her punishment will certainly come in time.

After Dewine said "it is the most bizarre case I've ever prosecuted" and shook his head in wonder and disgust, you have to wonder just how bizarre the facts will get when the truth comes out at the trials. To add, this was the very first time I've seen AC get angry in court.

I just hope I live long enough, these trials could take years....

Great observations Puzzles.

I think that we might have learned that AW and JW (for sure) were key to this entire thing. If AW wanted her brother to talk to JW then IMO that would seem like it is possible they are the key players. I also missed the entire hearing so I am just going by bits and pieces that I have read so far.

This apparently was a very well thought out planned execution.

AW said in recorded phone calls the theories that her lawyers had told her. Keywords to use?

I have never heard of such craziness in any murders. jmo

 

[Merrygirl]

What a joke, Betty! I agree! Will this kind of behavior continue to happen in trial? Is that why it's being allowed? IMO, it is a blatant outburst of defiance for the Court and Justice and all that we Americans stand for!

AC was fuming enough to ignite a fire in her body and soul! And IMO, the Judge might as well have spit on her!

IMO, RN will not stop talking with AW or anyone else she wants to speak to. She is proving how much she loves her mother...ha ha ha. Mommy or someone is paying lots of money to Gerlach, and to others IMO. Dangest thing I've ever seen allowed in a court of law. I can't wait to find out who the invisible man in a suit was. Lol

IMO it was disrespectful to be calling the Special Prosecutor by her first name like old friends. Did anyone else feel the same way or am I just being picky?

 

[Dudly]

Yeah, she's powerful, in ways that have nothing to do with religion or church, JMO. We've been saying that from the beginning, and I still believe it's the reason why it took so long to arrest the W4. JMO, that would never have happened without public pressure and attention on the case, plus an election that was coming up.

What does FW have on these people? Why does the criminal justice system, the AG & prosecutor and the Ohio news media think a bunch of extremely violent, murderous, white nationalist, drug dealing, grifting pseudo-Christians are people to hold in high esteem?

JMO, they and their "gang" must have a lot of dirt on a lot of people. The news media just goes along with whatever the AG's office or the governor tells them to do.

The answer is easy...$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$

 

[Caylee Advocate]

IMO it was disrespectful to be calling the Special Prosecutor by her first name like old friends. Did anyone else feel the same way or am I just being picky?

I agree, she should have referred to her as Ms. Canepa. I also think Judge Deering should have admonished a few people on the record today. Hopefully he will run a tighter ship when trial comes or at least we can hope for it. No, you aren't being picky

 

[Caylee Advocate]

If anyone has it easily accessible would you mind posting a link to where it said "a written message was found in the street clothes meant for AW." I simply have no recollection of that happening, not saying it didn't happen. TIA.

 

[OhioBlues]

I agree, she should have referred to her as Ms. Canepa. I also think Judge Deering should have admonished a few people on the record today. Hopefully he will run a tighter ship when trial comes or at least we can hope for it. No, you aren't being picky

My guess is that he won't run a tighter ship. The good news is that every phone call that at least some of the W4 makes is being recorded.

It has to help the prosecution to hear the theories that AW lawyers gave her and the keywords that she gave her mom.

My concern is what evidence that Judge will allow in and why all defendants aren't asking for a change of venue.

 

[Wild Rose]

Throwing today's event around in my head. All I come up with is the word defiant. Even as a courtroom observer, you are expected and told to be respectful of the court system or you could be charged. This is a charged individual who is not following the rules that an innocent observer must follow. I don't get it. Sorry.

 

[Cool Cats]

Also it was interesting that in one phone call Angie told Rita that "you don't have to testify against us." Angie has ulterior motives to call her mom, it's to make sure she won't testify against them. Angie asked her mom where some documents were, perhaps she wants to make sure her mom won't reveal them. Then they had a 3 - way call with Jake, Chris N, and Angie.

 

[Cool Cats]

D

 

[OhioBlues]

Also it was interesting that in one phone call Angie told Rita that "you don't have to testify against us." Angie has ulterior motives to call her mom, it's to make sure she won't testify against them. Angie asked her mom where some documents were, perhaps she wants to make sure her mom won't reveal them. Then they had a 3 - way call with Jake, Chris N, and Angie.

About the theories from Angie's attorneys I think we can take that to mean that the defense will rely heavily on "framing" other people. Buckle up because when these trials get going a lot of innocent people will be dragged into and through the swampy muddy waters of the Wagner lies.

Look at poor TP, having to testify just for doing her job, she got pulled into the swamp.

No doubt in my mind that the Wagner's tried to frame JM and BJM. "All the lies they told" includes putting suspicion on others. They told LE about CR SR's business associates, I wonder if that's why SM disappeared after the murders---no one could find him for a long time, probably because he was avoiding certain now incarcerated individuals. A lot of his phones are in Angela's discovery here on this page 4:

https://html2-f.scribdassets.com/5zbix3y0ow6tp04l/images/4-cbb64780dc.jpg

Just opinions just speculating....

I will have to listen to the hearing because I don't think that I agree with some of your statements.

I don't know what her defense attorney theories are and I would not assume framing.

The they told LE about CR "business associates" statement. Didn't FW push that scenario too? It will all come out in the end but until/unless it is stated in court that CR had 'business associates' then I discount that too as W's deceit. Do we know about SM at all? How do we know he was avoiding prisoners?

I think that we know nothing for sure yet. jmo

 

[OhioBlues]

Your quote:
"It has to help the prosecution to hear the theories that AW lawyers gave her and the keywords that she gave her mom."

What are the keywords for?...TIA

Did you listen to the hearing?

That was MOO. People probably will draw their own conclusion to that statement from the hearing. JMO.

 

[Cool Cats]

I will have to listen to the hearing because I don't think that I agree with some of your statements.

I don't know what her defense attorney theories are and I would not assume framing.

The they told LE about CR "business associates" statement. Didn't FW push that scenario too? It will all come out in the end but until/unless it is stated in court that CR had 'business associates' then I discount that too as W's deceit. Do we know about SM at all? How do we know he was avoiding prisoners?

I think that we know nothing for sure yet. jmo

Sorry, framing is the wrong word, I meant the defense has theories and they could include pointing to other people who they say could have had a motive to murder. It's common for the defense to cast doubt by blaming someone else for the crime, to show someone else had a motive, means and opportunity, not just their client.

I didn't mean SM was avoiding inmates, I meant he was avoiding the Wagner's who are now currently incarcerated. But maybe he was just staying at BBL instead of trying to avoid anyone. It was just my take on it, theory.

And that was my point, when the Wagner's gave up Chris's business associates they were probably lying about all of it. Chris worked with people but we don't know if he was actually in business with anyone. It was in the Wagner's best interests to point fingers at other innocent people and lie about their involvement with Chris.

The Wagner's attorney mentioned the business associates. I linked this a couple times before. And LE confirmed the Wagner's just told them a bunch of lies over and over.

Anyway, your right my post is not very clear so I edited out what is not factual.

 

[Cool Cats]

Did you listen to the hearing?

That was MOO. People probably will draw their own conclusion to that statement from the hearing. JMO.

Oh I thought there were specific key words I missed! So it was just the word "key word" that was said. Thankx!

 

[OhioBlues]

Sorry, framing is the wrong word, I meant the defense has theories and they could include pointing to other people who they say could have had a motive to murder. It's common for the defense to cast doubt by blaming someone else for the crime, to show someone else had a motive, means and opportunity, not just their client.

I didn't mean SM was avoiding inmates, I meant he was avoiding the Wagner's who are now currently incarcerated. But maybe he was just staying at BBL instead of trying to avoid anyone. It was just my take on it, theory.

And that was my point, when the Wagner's gave up Chris's business associates they were probably lying about all of it. Chris worked with people but we don't know if he was actually in business with anyone. It was in the Wagner's best interests to point fingers at other innocent people and lie about their involvement with Chris.

Sorry. I am watching the season finale of Yellowstone and distracted plus I was trying to respond tonight.

I think the W's are liars and don't believe one word about anything they claim about the victim CR's alleged business associates. FW tried that deflection.

 

[Fletcher73]

Judge to decide whether to send grandma back to jail in Pike Co. massacre
[from this article] "Angela is believed to be the mastermind of the conspiracy."

I've always thought this, but have never seen it in print before; JMO, because I can't explain any concrete reason why I think the murders were AW's idea and under her organization.

 

[Cool Cats]

Sorry. I am watching the season finale of Yellowstone and distracted plus I was trying to respond tonight.

I think the W's are liars and don't believe one word about anything they claim about the victim CR's alleged business associates. FW tried that deflection.

No you were right to point out that my post was sorta confusing-- not clear-- so I edited it, I appreciate your posts and OH MY GOSH I MISSED THE YELLOWSTONE FINALE!..

THANKX! Gotta go find it asap..........(the poor grandson!)..take care Ohio...

 

[Fletcher73]

Defense asking for transcript and complete copy of recording.
:snip:
Judge is going to let all the RN GJ testimony go to the defense counsel only. Counsel shall make no statements about this matter in public in court or to any source.
Defense wants "counsel only" restriction lifted on evidence related to handwriting analysis. Also want them to remove redactions.

Sounds like Defense wants to share these items with the W4 -jmo/moo

Thank you, Betty for these transcriptions.

 

[Fletcher73]

Have audio recordings of jail calls. In first 3 months Nov - January 20 different phone calls where they talked about the fact that they're not allowed to talk to each other. 20 times. Who is Randa? Maybe Randy. Apparently person who relays messages. Later, calls where Randy answers, AW says to tell RN something. Another time they were on speakerphone talking to each other. Something about Robin Wagner. Another call, AW lied and said it was ok for her to talk to RN. Another phone call they refer to RN sending AW a letter.
In June, RN initiates conversation, starts asking where documents are, etc. AW tells RN not to testify against her. Asks Chris to reach Jake. Rita says she hopes she doesn't go to jail. AW gives RN buzzwords to use when she testifies that will help explain. Each asks to talk to the other at different times, when talking to someone else on phone. Very purposeful. AW saying let me tell you what my attorney said, discusses theories of the case that she can use in her trial.
Specifically talking about case strategy, what to say and not to say, whether or not to testify, even knowing they're not supposed to discuss this.Judge verifies those are recorded phone calls, AC provided recordings of the 13 specific phone calls and sent them to RN's defense. Also gave him summaries, per his request. Phone calls were lengthy. Defense trying to say it wasn't specific info. Defense hasn't listened to all the recordings yet.
AC asks Gerlach do you dispute that any of the evidence sent to them were in violation of the court order. Defense doesn't want to say. He says he hasn't listened to the recordings, so doesn't know if there is proof they violated the order. AC says she can play some of them today.

So much of this demonstrates 'Consciousness of Guilt" - a type of circumstantial evidence of guilt by behavior, such as witness tampering. AW manipulating RN by giving her buzzwords, if not outright false statements. AW and RN acknowledging they are violating court orders but continue to speak to each other, discussing strategy. W4 fleeing from the jurisdiction to Alaska. W4 possibly concealing or destroying evidence, attempting to cover up. ...and on and on... jmo/moo

 

[Fletcher73]

I don't think I heard him give a reason why he ruled that way. I also didn't hear AC or Junk object in any way. They just seemed to shrug and go along with it.

Maybe the strategy is "give them enough rope to hang themselves" - after all, if they hop back on the horn and continue to converse with impunity, knowing they're being recorded, AW or RN or JW will soon incriminate themselves.

FW wouldn't be able to power-play out of that. If it was my decision, I'd tell them not to talk to each other, then continue to record and monitor calls - I just don't think they can help themselves - they'll be calling each other again within two weeks, because they're too enmeshed not to - JMO.

 

[Fletcher73]

I was shocked as I listened to her in court. How often do defendants get by with insulting the county prosecutor in front of the judge?

She is disrespectful in other ways, and probably that carries over to how her children disrespect the court orders. For example, her manner of dress tells me she has little concern for decorum. There's no reason to enter a courtroom wearing jeans and a tee-shirt