GUILTY OH Pike Co., 8 in Rhoden Family Murdered Over Custody Issue, 4 Members Wagner Family Arrested #60

[Betty P]

It does seems like they all would have been on more alert but I think they did not really think someone would kill them as most people probably would not. I have thought that GR answered the door and then CRsr came up when he heard what was going on and then retreated back.

Remember the autopsy reports showed CR Sr. was killed before the others. His body showed more advanced decomp. Also, CR, Sr. was in the back room, then GR dragged there and dumped on top of him, across his legs.

Rhoden massacre: Autopsy reveals gruesome details in slayings of 8 family members

https://www.wcpo.com/news/state/sta...reporters-to-inspect-slain-family-s-autopsies

The theory is that CR, Sr. saw them coming, and was shot through a door (front or bedroom not known). They hid CR Sr.'s body and waited for GR, who was killed when he came in the front door. His body was then dragged to the bedroom.

Wagners didn't want anyone to see the bodies before they finished committing the rest of the murders.

ETA: The theories are just those we've discussed here, FWIW.

 

[Covert Operative]

Remember the autopsy reports showed CR Sr. was killed before the others. His body showed more advanced decomp. Also, CR, Sr. was in the back room, then GR dragged there and dumped on top of him, across his legs.

Rhoden massacre: Autopsy reveals gruesome details in slayings of 8 family members

The theory is that CR, Sr. saw them coming, and was shot through a door (front or bedroom not known). They hid CR Sr.'s body and waited for GR, who was killed when he came in the front door. His body was then dragged to the bedroom.

Wagners didn't want anyone to see the bodies before they finished committing the rest of the murders.

Yes that is a theory I have seen.
I am not sure why his body would show more decomposition but I think GR and CRsr were home, GR came to door, the altercation/shooting took place. CRSR heard and came up but then ran back when he realized what was happening. He was shot through a door but I think it is the bedroom door or another door. People have theorized he showed more decomp due to being shot so many times, etc.

 

[Covert Operative]

Remember the autopsy reports showed CR Sr. was killed before the others. His body showed more advanced decomp. Also, CR, Sr. was in the back room, then GR dragged there and dumped on top of him, across his legs.

Rhoden massacre: Autopsy reveals gruesome details in slayings of 8 family members

https://www.wcpo.com/news/state/sta...reporters-to-inspect-slain-family-s-autopsies

The theory is that CR, Sr. saw them coming, and was shot through a door (front or bedroom not known). They hid CR Sr.'s body and waited for GR, who was killed when he came in the front door. His body was then dragged to the bedroom.

Wagners didn't want anyone to see the bodies before they finished committing the rest of the murders.

ETA: The theories are just those we've discussed here, FWIW.

There are a lot of reasons that a body can decay faster than another. This is just some of them but there are quite a few. I only listed these because he would have have 9 shots which is more damage to the body.

Cause of Death

The cause of death can impact the rate of decomposition. For example, a violent death that results in breaks in the skin can result in a faster decomposition process. A person who dies from certain diseases may also leave a body that decomposes at a faster rate.

Trauma

A body that has endured trauma before death can decompose more quickly. This occurs because of tears or breaks in the skin and other damage to the surface of the body itself.

GR also had trauma to the body but perhaps not as much as CRsr did.

 

[Betty P]

Yes that is a theory I have seen.
I am not sure why his body would show more decomposition but I think GR and CRsr were home, GR came to door, the altercation/shooting took place. CRSR heard and came up but then ran back when he realized what was happening. He was shot through a door but I think it is the bedroom door or another door. People have theorized he showed more decomp due to being shot so many times, etc.

Yes, its possible. We'll find out more, soon enough. Such a horrifying night that must have been. The Wags are depraved, crazy, evil to do something so horrendous. I hope they're still having nightmares about it. And then to go out and get tattoos to commemorate the slaughter of 8 innocent people - friends/neighbors.

I'd also like to learn more about the big fight when Chris Sr. and Billy fought.

 

[Betty P]

There are a lot of reasons that a body can decay faster than another. This is just some of them but there are quite a few. I only listed these because he would have have 9 shots which is more damage to the body.

Cause of Death

The cause of death can impact the rate of decomposition. For example, a violent death that results in breaks in the skin can result in a faster decomposition process. A person who dies from certain diseases may also leave a body that decomposes at a faster rate.

Trauma

A body that has endured trauma before death can decompose more quickly. This occurs because of tears or breaks in the skin and other damage to the surface of the body itself.

GR also had trauma to the body but perhaps not as much as CRsr did.

IIRC, GR had 3 gunshot wounds to the head, some of them contact wounds. At first I thought he might have been sleeping on the living room sofa when they came in and quickly killed him. IDK, we'll find out.

BCI arranged to have 3D FARO scans of the crime scenes. They're probably going to use those and other tools to sort of reconstruct each crime scenes - show where the killers entered and killed their victims. We'll probably learn more then about the exact sequence of events.

https://www.faro.com/en/Resource-Library/Video/powerful-court-accepted-3d-presentations



I think BCI was quickly able to figure out what happened, how, when, etc. but they didn't know who for a long time.

 

[Cool Cats]

Yes, its possible. We'll find out more, soon enough. Such a horrifying night that must have been. The Wags are depraved, crazy, evil to do something so horrendous. I hope they're still having nightmares about it. And then to go out and get tattoos to commemorate the slaughter of 8 innocent people - friends/neighbors.

I'd also like to learn more about the big fight when Chris Sr. and Billy fought.

One important thing we just learned about their confrontation (or one of their confrontations) is that Billy pulled a gun on Chris.

For this information to make it's way into a court motion document
- OTHER ACTS EVIDENCE - means a witness would have had to testify to this.
If this witness saw the confrontation it could be possible they were able to tell LE what type of gun it was.

If the witness heard about this 2nd hand, it still is possible that the type of gun was mentioned.

We talk about the possibility of Kenny having witnessed something.

I think it is possible that Kenny and/or Gary (Gary lived with Chris) saw the confrontation(s) between Chris and Billy.

Think about it. If Billy pulled a gun and also made threats - then Chris is shot soon after - that would be powerful testimony from Kenny and/or Gary if they witnessed it.

Enough reason for the Wagners to target them. Maybe this is the reason they laid in wait for Gary. If Chris was shot some time before the rest, then I think it's possible they lay in wait for Gary to get rid of him as a witness.

Canepa said "They killed all the witnesses" and so I think this makes it more likely Kenny and/or Gary were considered witnesses against them by the Wagners.

According to the OTHER ACTS EVIDENCE the Wagners were quick to draw guns and threaten to kill people for even less reasons than this. In other words, any potential witness they perceived they would have no problem with killing them.

They threatened to kill the family of Jake's wife just if they showed up to see their daughter. That's no reason. Crazy psychos .... 2 Cents ....

 

[Caylee Advocate]

I must have missed where it has been said that the tattoo's were done "after" these murders. Can anyone post a link stating this? Please and thank you.

 

[Betty P]

I must have missed where it has been said that the tattoo's were done "after" these murders. Can anyone post a link stating this? Please and thank you.

YMMV. Believe what you wish. I'll retract my statement because I'm tired of arguing over this same information over and over.

It's not a game or some type of competition.
Wagner family Alaska photo - Google Search


AC also mentioned that fact in Billy's hearing the other day. There's a link a few pages back if you want to watch the video of the hearing.

 

[Covert Operative]

IIRC, GR had 3 gunshot wounds to the head, some of them contact wounds. At first I thought he might have been sleeping on the living room sofa when they came in and quickly killed him. IDK, we'll find out.

BCI arranged to have 3D FARO scans of the crime scenes. They're probably going to use those and other tools to sort of reconstruct each crime scenes - show where the killers entered and killed their victims. We'll probably learn more then about the exact sequence of events.

https://www.faro.com/en/Resource-Library/Video/powerful-court-accepted-3d-presentations



I think BCI was quickly able to figure out what happened, how, when, etc. but they didn't know who for a long time.

I must have missed where it has been said that the tattoo's were done "after" these murders. Can anyone post a link stating this? Please and thank you.

I do not think we know for sure that G4's was after but it would seem strange to get a tattoo in advance that seems to depict what you planned to do. There are pics of G3 that are before and after the murders that show he did not have the scorpion tattoo on his hand at those times. Maybe the tattoo the prosecution wants to take a pic of is not the scorpion, not sure. They also have them on discovery which would imply they were after the murders. I do not believe there is an actual link about tattoos that says they were before or after.

 

[Caylee Advocate]

YMMV. Believe what you wish. I'll retract my statement because I'm tired of arguing over this same information over and over.

It's not a game or some type of competition.
Wagner family Alaska photo - Google Search


AC also mentioned that fact in Billy's hearing the other day. There's a link a few pages back if you want to watch the video of the hearing.

I didn't say I believed anything as I don't know the answer. Coming from one who wants links when others post, you should not be offended by me asking. I watched the hearing live but thank you for the offer.

I certainly have never thought of these murders as a game or competition, and hopefully no one on here does.

 

[Betty P]

I do not think we know for sure that G4's was after but it would seem strange to get a tattoo in advance that seems to depict what you planned to do. There are pics of G3 that are before and soon after the murders that show he did not have the scorpion tattoo on his hand at those times. Maybe the tattoo the prosecution wants to take a pic of is not the scorpion, not sure. They also have them on discovery which would imply they were after the murders. I do not believe there is an actual link about tattoos that says they were before or after.

At the link in my post above, there's a photo of the Wagner family taken in AK after they moved there in 2017. Note that Billy's right hand is showing and it doesn't have the tattoo.

The photo is posted to an article on Cincinnati.com and is behind a paywall.

I don't mind posting links. I do mind posting them over and over. It's common courtesy for members to pay attention and read previous posts to glean the information they need without having to rely on other members to keep providing them with information that's already been made available.

 

[Covert Operative]

At the link in my post above, there's a photo of the Wagner family taken in AK after they moved there in 2017. Note that Billy's right hand is showing and it doesn't have the tattoo.

The photo is posted to an article on Cincinnati.com and is behind a paywall.

I don't mind posting links. I do mind posting them over and over. It's common courtesy for members to pay attention and read previous posts to glean the information they need without having to rely on other members to keep providing them with information that's already been made available.

I already know all that, I was not asking for a link. I think she was asking for an actual link that states that about the tattoos. I cannot speak for her but that is what I think. She may have been more so asking about G4. I do not find that I need a link to anything that I have seen talked about so far the short time I have been here. I was explaining to her how I think the conclusion comes about that they were after the murders.

 

[Betty P]

I already know all that, I was not asking for a link. I think she was asking for an actual link that states that about the tattoos. I cannot speak for her but that is what I think. She may have been more so asking about G4. I do not find that I need a link to anything that I have seen talked about so far the short time I have been here. I was explaining to her how I think the conclusion comes about that they were after the murders.

No problem, I don't mind posting links for people who are new here.

I don't think G4 has a scorpion tattoo

 

[Caylee Advocate]

At the link in my post above, there's a photo of the Wagner family taken in AK after they moved there in 2017. Note that Billy's right hand is showing and it doesn't have the tattoo.

The photo is posted to an article on Cincinnati.com and is behind a paywall.

I don't mind posting links. I do mind posting them over and over. It's common courtesy for members to pay attention and read previous posts to glean the information they need without having to rely on other members to keep providing them with information that's already been made available.

I don't know who you are referring to but this poster doesn't rely on you for links or any other information. You posted as though it was fact and I simply asked for a link, as you yourself have done before.

 

[Covert Operative]

No problem, I don't mind posting links for people who are new here.

I don't think G4 has a scorpion tattoo

No G3 has the scorpion tattoo. G4 allegedly has the other one. Thank you but I doubt I will need any links or ever ask for any but its appreciated. I thought you had said in a post about them getting tattoos, not just G3 and that is why she was asking. That is why I mentioned G4.

 

[Sillybilly]

ADMIN NOTE:

Hey good people, the thread is getting derailed with bickering over tattoos and links. Stop the bickering and move on.

Thanks.

 

[Cool Cats]

Angela hasn't been to court in almost 10 months! Her last time was a motion hearing June 24, 2020.

So I checked the docket to see what has been going on since then.

06/25/2020
THE COURT GRANTS THE MOTION TO WITHDRAW THE APPEARANCE OF THE OHIO ATTORNEY GENERAL'S OFFICE AS COUNSEL

08/03/2020
DEFENDANT IS PERMITTED TO RECEIVE MAIL, IN THE FORM OF MAGAZINES OR BOOKS, BY A THIRD-PARTY PROVIDER. DEFENDANT IS PERMITTED TO COMMUNICATE WITH HER ATTORNEYS BY TELEPHONE AND MAIL. ANY ATTEMPT TO COMMUNICATE DIRECTLY OR INDIRECTLY WITH THE DESCRIBED PROHIBITED PARTIES WILL RESULT IN A REVOCATION OF ALL PHONE AND MAIL PRIVILEGES UNTIL THE COMPLETION OF THE CASE.

09/16/2020
DEFENDANT'S REPLY TO STATE'S MOTION FOR EXTENSION OF TIME AND MOTION TO COMPEL DISCOVERY

(Sounds like this is the prosecution asking to receive discovery from the defense)

01/15/2021
REQUEST FOR COURT-PAID EXPERT (REPORTER) EXPENSES

02/12/2021
DEFENDANT'S MOTION TO PERMIT TRAVEL FOR MEDICAL PURPOSES

02/12/2021
THE MOTION TO ALLOW TRAVEL FOR MEDICAL PURPOSES IS GRANTED

(wonder if health issues have held up her case)

02/22/2021
NOTICE OF INTENT TO USE OTHER ACTS EVIDENCE

02/22/2021
ORDER GRANTING THE REQUEST FOR COURT-PAID EXPERT EXPENSES

 

[Covert Operative]

Angela hasn't been to court in almost 10 months! Her last time was a motion hearing June 24, 2020.

So I checked the docket to see what has been going on since then.

06/25/2020
THE COURT GRANTS THE MOTION TO WITHDRAW THE APPEARANCE OF THE OHIO ATTORNEY GENERAL'S OFFICE AS COUNSEL

08/03/2020
DEFENDANT IS PERMITTED TO RECEIVE MAIL, IN THE FORM OF MAGAZINES OR BOOKS, BY A THIRD-PARTY PROVIDER. DEFENDANT IS PERMITTED TO COMMUNICATE WITH HER ATTORNEYS BY TELEPHONE AND MAIL. ANY ATTEMPT TO COMMUNICATE DIRECTLY OR INDIRECTLY WITH THE DESCRIBED PROHIBITED PARTIES WILL RESULT IN A REVOCATION OF ALL PHONE AND MAIL PRIVILEGES UNTIL THE COMPLETION OF THE CASE.

09/16/2020
DEFENDANT'S REPLY TO STATE'S MOTION FOR EXTENSION OF TIME AND MOTION TO COMPEL DISCOVERY

(Sounds like this is the prosecution asking to receive discovery from the defense)

01/15/2021
REQUEST FOR COURT-PAID EXPERT (REPORTER) EXPENSES

02/12/2021
DEFENDANT'S MOTION TO PERMIT TRAVEL FOR MEDICAL PURPOSES

02/12/2021
THE MOTION TO ALLOW TRAVEL FOR MEDICAL PURPOSES IS GRANTED

(wonder if health issues have held up her case)

02/22/2021
NOTICE OF INTENT TO USE OTHER ACTS EVIDENCE

02/22/2021
ORDER GRANTING THE REQUEST FOR COURT-PAID EXPERT EXPENSES

They have not filed anything that would require her to to have to appear is what I think.

 

[Cool Cats]

They have not filed anything that would require her to to have to appear is what I think.

Why? Not much has gone on in 10 months. I was hoping to get a clue as to why but don't see it. I have never heard of a case taking 10 months maybe a year to get the defendant back in court for motion rulings.

Maybe this is normal in DP cases. Maybe they are just biding their time because they know Jake, maybe Billy, will go to trial before them.

I say Billy because he and his attorneys make it clear he is frustrated at the progress, especially with Jake going ahead.

 

[Covert Operative]

Why? Not much has gone on in 10 months. I was hoping to get a clue as to why but don't see it. I have never heard of a case taking 10 months maybe a year to get the defendant back in court for motion rulings.

Maybe this is normal in DP cases. Maybe they are just biding their time because they know Jake, maybe Billy, will go to trial before them.

I say Billy because he and his attorneys make it clear he is frustrated at the progress, especially with Jake going ahead.

I think medical reasons.