GUILTY OH Pike Co., 8 in Rhoden Family Murdered Over Custody Issue, 4 Members Wagner Family Arrested #60

[Betty P]

Yes, but a small price to pay to catch his sister's family murderers.

I strongly disagree. There were other ways to accomplish whatever it was they were attempting. JMO it was a Keystone Cops moment.

 

[Cool Cats]

Yes, but a small price to pay to catch his sister's family murderers.

I don't see how taking him out of work for a polygraph helped the case.

I don’t know if they suspected the W’s when JW got custody just a month after the murders. But within the next few months they definitely was suspects.

When reader said the killers were local and that was his belief. He said this about 6 months after the murders

IMO the gps tracker put on JM vehicle was a ploy to throw off the W’s, they were probably being bugged at this point and maybe this was done to get them to talk

The Wagners didn't know about the GPS, it was not meant to be found.

They got the Wagners to talk - amongst themselves - through the laser focus - and through texting a photo.

I agree with JM's attorney. He thinks they arrested him to squeeze him for information. Not sure what info.

I think they saw an opportunity to arrest him when they found out he destroyed the GPS tracker, and took advantage of that situation.

Nothing ever came of it. He had no idea who was tracking him, could have been the murderers tracking him for all he knew, he had every right to protect himself. It was sent to the GJ and no wonder the GJ did not indict him.

No matter what the GPS might have said on it, he had no way to know what was going on.

Bogus arrest.

 

[Cool Cats]

https://www.wcpo.com/news/pike-county-massacre-suspects-could-face-new-accusations

Jake outside court headed back to jail. Billy "complaining" to his attorneys in court. WCPO

On Monday during a hearing, Billy Wagner's defense team said they plan to object to each of the 34 pieces of evidence submitted by prosecutors for consideration. Defense attorney Mark Collins said they plan to question some expert testimony on pieces of evidence that the state wants to include as well.

"They do not have an actual firearm that was allegedly used in this situation," said Collins. "They have shell casings they found at numerous scenes, your honor. Then they are compared to shell casings found on my client's family property some two years later."

"Mr. Wagner (Billy) has some frustrations," said Collins. "The fact that he's been incarcerated for 29 months and does not have a trial date, he would like a trial date. We've talked to him about that...he just wants the court to be aware that he would like this to go as fast as possible under the reasonable constraints."

Marty Pinales, a local defense attorney who is not affiliated with the Pike County case, said it's not uncommon for so-called "other acts" evidence to be presented for consideration but typically not everything makes it to trial.

"Prosecutors sometimes will go out on a very thin limb when they're preparing a case because they get so wrapped up in their case that they think that the person is very bad and they have the duty to bring it to the attention of the jury."

He added that prosecutors also often "sling it and see if it sticks to the wall."

 

[Johnny B Bad]

CC, I wouldn’t care to bet the farm that Billy try’s to put the murders on Jake and Angela, JMO

 

[Cool Cats]

CC, I wouldn’t care to bet the farm that Billy try’s to put the murders on Jake and Angela, JMO

Well the huge thing will be the outcome of J's trial.

So if Jake is acquitted of the worst charges then the other 3's attorney's will be able to use that strategy - the strategy that got him acquited.

If à guilty verdict comes in for Jake it could be risky for Billy's attorneys to put all the blame on him.

Why? Because to say it was all Jake ties Billy into the crimes more not less.

3 guns were used and there is the Other Acts, tattoo, cell tower records, recorded phone calls and conversations, shared home layouts and custody messages and screen shots on the family computer, (Angela's) he may have signed the custody documents since he is charged with fraud, he was at Peterson Rd that night not at FW's, proof they did everything together, and other evidence to show his guilt.

So to say his son did it actually makes it seem more likely Billy was involved one way or another.

Between a rock and a hard place is where his lawyers will be because if Jake is found guilty and Billy's attorneys say it was not Jake, not the Wagners who did it, a drug gang did it whatever, then they are going against the jury's verdict.

The jurors would know that Jake was found guilty and thus be less likely to believe someone other than the Wagners did it.

Can't win for losing...2 Cents

 

[Betty P]

Well the huge thing will be the outcome of J's trial.

So if Jake is acquitted of the worst charges then the other 3's attorney's will be able to use that strategy - the strategy that got him acquited.

If à guilty verdict comes in for Jake it could be risky for Billy's attorneys to put all the blame on him.

Why? Because to say it was all Jake ties Billy into the crimes more not less.

3 guns were used and there is the Other Acts, tattoo, cell tower records, recorded phone calls and conversations, shared home layouts and custody messages and screen shots on the family computer, (Angela's) he may have signed the custody documents since he is charged with fraud, he was at Peterson Rd that night not at FW's, proof they did everything together, and other evidence to show his guilt.

So to say his son did it actually makes it seem more likely Billy was involved one way or another.

Between a rock and a hard place is where his lawyers will be because if Jake is found guilty and Billy's attorneys say it was not Jake, not the Wagners who did it, a drug gang did it whatever, then they are going against the jury's verdict.

The jurors would know that Jake was found guilty and thus be less likely to believe someone other than the Wagners did it.

Can't win for losing...2 Cents

Don't forget the video / game cam footage from the night of the murders. IIRC, that's listed in everyone's discovery. These people were seen creeping around the crime scenes, in the dark, either before or after the murders. They'll have a hard time explaining that to the jury.

 

[Cool Cats]

Don't forget the video / game cam footage from the night of the murders. IIRC, that's listed in everyone's discovery. These people were seen creeping around the crime scenes, in the dark, either before or after the murders. They'll have a hard time explaining that to the jury.

Could be, there must be a reason for these being in evidence:

1.) Game Camera listed for 51 UHR
2.) OCIC Enhanced DVR Footage
3.) Other DVR Footage
4.) Trail Cam Pictures
5.) Wagner Game Cams

OCIC = Organized Crime Investigations Commission chaired by the Ohio Attorney General.

OCIC supports local law enforcement by providing advanced audio/visual restoration and enhancement. Using sophisticated software and training, the OCIC’s A/V experts provide: forensic audio and video analysis, tape authenticity, 3D reconstructions of a crime scene, reconstruction of damaged tapes, etc...

 

[Betty P]

Could be, there must be a reason for these being in evidence:

1.) Game Camera listed for 51 UHR
2.) OCIC Enhanced DVR Footage
3.) Other DVR Footage
4.) Trail Cam Pictures
5.) Wagner Game Cams

OCIC = Organized Crime Investigations Commission chaired by the Ohio Attorney General.

OCIC supports local law enforcement by providing advanced audio/visual restoration and enhancement. Using sophisticated software and training, the OCIC’s A/V experts provide: forensic audio and video analysis, tape authenticity, 3D reconstructions of a crime scene, reconstruction of damaged tapes, etc...

I suppose Billy and GW4 will tell us they were out enjoying the scenery or preparing to hunt turkeys while Jake and Angela were murdering the Rhodens.

 

[Everything22]

I strongly disagree. There were other ways to accomplish whatever it was they were attempting. JMO it was a Keystone Cops moment.

Thank you, Betty. I worded that terribly. I am not familiar with Keystone Cops but will look it up.

 

[Cool Cats]

I suppose Billy and GW4 will tell us they were out enjoying the scenery or preparing to hunt turkeys while Jake and Angela were murdering the Rhodens.

It is very risky for a Wagner to shift the murders on to one or 2 of their group.

They would be better off pointing fingers far away from their family. The minute an attorney tells the jury that the other Wagners did the crimes - not their client - is the minute the attorney has to start explaining at every turn why their client knew nothing about it.

Just too impossible to believe with them living and working and raising the kids together and sharing computers and rewards cards and money and voting on every decision together, to name a few.

What? They vote on every decision, even personal ones, but not vote on murder and mayhem? Keeping one of them from knowing? Hog wash.

George even said his bedroom faces the stairs so he would know who was coming and going that night.

 

[Everything22]

I don't see how taking him out of work for a polygraph helped the case.



The Wagners didn't know about the GPS, it was not meant to be found.

They got the Wagners to talk - amongst themselves - through the laser focus - and through texting a photo.

I agree with JM's attorney. He thinks they arrested him to squeeze him for information. Not sure what info.

I think they saw an opportunity to arrest him when they found out he destroyed the GPS tracker, and took advantage of that situation.

Nothing ever came of it. He had no idea who was tracking him, could have been the murderers tracking him for all he knew, he had every right to protect himself. It was sent to the GJ and no wonder the GJ did not indict him.

No matter what the GPS might have said on it, he had no way to know what was going on.

Bogus arrest.

But... then there's the red truck, with all its mysteries. And Judge Hogan signed off on it. I'm just not clear it was all bogus, totally my opinion.

 

[Cool Cats]

But... then there's the red truck, with all its mysteries. And Judge Hogan signed off on it. I'm just not clear it was all bogus, totally my opinion.

I assume you mean the judge signed off on the warrant for the GPS.

I didn't say the GPS was bogus, I'm saying JM's arrest was.

They couldn't even tell his attorney why they arrested him because they did not want certain information to get out. So why arrest him then?

I agree with his attorney, it was to pressure him to give out some type of information.

Especially in light of a grossly unnecessary high bail. No reason for an $80,000 bond unless it's to pressure him. There were no victims and he was not a flight risk and I don't think he has a criminal history. He was working, logging I think but got fired because of his arrest.

And your sopose to go to the GJ first not last! Junk said the case would be turned over to the GJ. Nothing even came of it...Opinion...

 

[Sleuthinsleuther]

If so, it was really cruel to JM and his family. Per Leonard, it cost him a lot of money and caused him to miss several days of work.

I’d say they let JM know what they was doing and just had him play along. That’s why he was chill in court.

wouldn't be surprised if they even acted like he found it and smashed it all for a show so the W’s would let their guard down

 

[Betty P]

Have you seen the LE incident report where GWIII pulled a gun on CRsr? I don’t recall ever seeing that.

No, I'm just assuming one was filed. I suppose that will come out at trial, since the incident is included in the Other Acts evidence.

 

[Betty P]

https://www.wcpo.com/news/pike-county-massacre-suspects-could-face-new-accusations

Jake outside court headed back to jail. Billy "complaining" to his attorneys in court. WCPO

On Monday during a hearing, Billy Wagner's defense team said they plan to object to each of the 34 pieces of evidence submitted by prosecutors for consideration. Defense attorney Mark Collins said they plan to question some expert testimony on pieces of evidence that the state wants to include as well.

"They do not have an actual firearm that was allegedly used in this situation," said Collins. "They have shell casings they found at numerous scenes, your honor. Then they are compared to shell casings found on my client's family property some two years later."

"Mr. Wagner (Billy) has some frustrations," said Collins. "The fact that he's been incarcerated for 29 months and does not have a trial date, he would like a trial date. We've talked to him about that...he just wants the court to be aware that he would like this to go as fast as possible under the reasonable constraints."

Marty Pinales, a local defense attorney who is not affiliated with the Pike County case, said it's not uncommon for so-called "other acts" evidence to be presented for consideration but typically not everything makes it to trial.

"Prosecutors sometimes will go out on a very thin limb when they're preparing a case because they get so wrapped up in their case that they think that the person is very bad and they have the duty to bring it to the attention of the jury."

He added that prosecutors also often "sling it and see if it sticks to the wall."

Not surprising the defense attorneys discount the importance of "other acts" evidence, but the news media really needs to cover the evidence presented by the prosecution. Sadly, other than a bare minimum of discussion about the hearings, they haven't discussed much of the evidence presented. Unless people are willing to sit through a couple hours waiting and listening to these hearings, they're not going to know what evidence the state has presented.

How do we get the news media to cover the "other acts" evidence?

Maybe a good start would be to contact the reporter in the article linked above.

 

[Covert Operative]

But... then there's the red truck, with all its mysteries. And Judge Hogan signed off on it. I'm just not clear it was all bogus, totally my opinion.

I believe that they thought they had information on that truck/JM when they got that warrant but then found out they were incorrect.

 

[Everything22]

I thought it made it look like he cut off his index finger the way that bandage looked.

OMG! Did he really do this? I wouldn't be surprised.

 

[Everything22]

Hearing for 3 motions filed Feb and March 4

Jake W appears without restraint in street clothes. Attorney absent , Jake says ok with substitute attorney. Special Agent Jenkins instead of Scheiderer.

May 12, 2021 is all day motion hearing, but other motions resulted in request for sooner hearing - today.

Motion 54 - Other Acts
55 - transcripts, etc.

Defense withdrawing 55 and 56. Address only 54.

Defense says state provided evidence to their external hard drive for items in 55 and 56. Asking court today to instead of issuing a ruling today refinement something about jurisprudence. Something about asking they include explanation of why they want to use all other acts listed and if it's relevant.

Says they need to satisfy some restrictions in 44 B, etc. prejudicial impact

AC says it was a notice of what they intend to use. If Wagner objects to any of the other acts, he should say so. Judge says burden remains on state to show it fits the exception and comply with Supreme Court's guidance. Does defense intend to file written objection or make oral objection. Do they want to schedule a hearing or use May 12 hearing to address objections to other acts

Defense says they object to all other acts. Some are irrelevant, etc. Says prejudicial impact is far above probative value.

State says they need more specific info about objection to each specific act.

Judge says state is required to show they are admissible. Not requiring defense to specify objections.

Withdrawing Motion 47 ballistics evidence. After consultation gave further thought about the motion decided to withdraw Motion 47 and 48.

Other name of John corneli? Has resigned job, now Delaware Co public defender, so is no longer involved.

State - He indicated "their experts". Appointments of experts - state wants more info about defense experts. Have not received anything.

Jake slipped his mask down and is showing nose and mouth. While AC is talking.

Judge asking Jake routine questions about access to attorneys, etc.

Everyone leaving.

Betty, thank you so much for reporting on these! You do a great job!

 

[Puzzles8]

I assume you mean the judge signed off on the warrant for the GPS.

I didn't say the GPS was bogus, I'm saying JM's arrest was.

They couldn't even tell his attorney why they arrested him because they did not want certain information to get out. So why arrest him then?

I agree with his attorney, it was to pressure him to give out some type of information.

Especially in light of a grossly unnecessary high bail. No reason for an $80,000 bond unless it's to pressure him. There were no victims and he was not a flight risk and I don't think he has a criminal history. He was working, logging I think but got fired because of his arrest.

And your sopose to go to the GJ first not last! Junk said the case would be turned over to the GJ. Nothing even came of it...Opinion...

Agree, but different states use Grand Juries to varying extents.

IMO, arresting JM was some type of LE tactic to keep him off the map for a while, so they could focus on the W4. It appears it was a good one, as LE started the massive searches just weeks later. Those searches were not planned spur of the moment, they were the result of a long and thorough investigation.

JMO, MOO, etc.

ETA - A long and thorough investigation the W4 had thrown MANY red herrings into. By arresting JM, LE was able to eliminate one of those red herrings.

 

[Dudly]

OMG! Did he really do this? I wouldn't be surprised.

No, the way that bandage, or whatever, was on his hand, it looked like one finger opening was empty.