GUILTY OH Pike Co., 8 in Rhoden Family Murdered Over Custody Issue, 4 Members Wagner Family Arrested #62

[CIA Team Member]

I've never been able to buy into the theory that all but 2 were asleep either. Especially at Dana's home where there was a front and rear exit that weren't visible at the same time by only 1 person. I think that none of them entered any of the houses alone. One may have been the shooter at Dana's home (JW) but, I think in Dana's house and in FR's house, the shooter was accompanied by 1 or 2 others to keep the ones not currently being shot in place and quiet. At CRS's house, I think at least BW and GW went in together. And, if a house was entered by just 1 person (which I don't believe) ... then all exits would have been guarded by the others from the outside. But, again, I don't believe anyone went into any home all by themselves with possibly the exception of KR's. In the case of KR's house I somehow feel someone approached that house with KR's knowledge posing as a "friend."
ETA: If not a "friend" than under some ruse such as "We need to talk about the bad situation between BW and CRS and how we can make things better... We need to make peace for the sake of the children..." Along those lines or something similar.

Males are territorial by nature, therefore, IMO, a female entered KR's place, whom he knew.
Has anyone seen which hand AW writes/signs documents with? Just curious.

 

[pepper 34]

Males are territorial by nature, therefore, IMO, a female entered KR's place, whom he knew.
Has anyone seen which hand AW writes/signs documents with? Just curious.

I can see that but, since BW had the fight with CRSr, I can also see BW trying to appeal to KR to "meet with him in order to make peace" between CRSr and BW who had fought just a week or so earlier. Of course, all of it being a set up to get into KR's house to kill him. This would also satisfy BW's need for personal revenge because didn't CRSr punch BW during the argument they had?) That smack must have deflated BW's ego quite a bit and "getting even with CRSr" would have been a big, emotional bandaid for BW's bruised ego.

Also, I think AW would have had a tougher time trying to explain why she was dropping by, for any reason, at such an awkward time of night. I think that would arouse suspicion on KR's part, no matter what phony excuse AW could come up with to drop by.
ETA: for clarity

 

[rsd1200]

I can see that but, since BW had the fight with CRSr, I can also see BW trying to appeal to KR to "meet with him in order to make peace" between CRSr and BW who had fought just a week or so earlier. Of course, all of it being a set up to get into KR's house to kill him. This would also satisfy BW's need for personal revenge because didn't CRSr punch BW during the argument they had?) That smack must have deflated BW's ego quite a bit and "getting even with CRSr" would have been a big, emotional bandaid for BW's bruised ego.

Also, I think AW would have had a tougher time trying to explain why she was dropping by, for any reason, at such an awkward time of night. I think that would arouse suspicion on KR's part, no matter what phony excuse AW could come up with to drop by.
ETA: for clarity

It's very possible that KR was killed first, so that he could not be called upon to help should one of them try to get a call out to him for help, or, they knew he cut through UHR, on his way to work each day and it was too likely he'd see something. I don't see AW killing him. I don't think they had more than a distant, in-law, sort of passing knowledge, of one another. The same three probably went to his trailer as they did to the others' trailers. One or more handled the dog and one killed him. I've seen pictures of a dog, who I believe to be Brownie, and I got the feeling that his bark was worse than his bite. Then again, I could be completely wrong. Just sittin' here thinking. It's rare a day has gone by, since our news outlet reported on this case, that I haven't sat and thought about the families and the how. Unfortunately, people will do some heinous things, in the name of love.

 

[Norrmajean]

Perhaps I missed something beyond rumor and speculation. Do we have documentation provided by a reliable source that indicates who was awake or asleep? I can understand believing that CRSR and GR were awake since there is evidence of bodies being dragged and bloody footprints. But I can't recall any facts that indicate that anyone else was awake or not in bed.

I was wondering the same thing. I think I missed something about KR. I thought he was in bed but people seem to be saying that one of the Ws got him to open his door. That has me confused. I believe KR was killed for multiple reasons. He was a threat who could have pointed the finger right at them. Killing him causes more confusion for LE trying to figure out the morive or primary target. To some extent it worked sending LE in several wrong directions. JMO

 

[rsd1200]

Perhaps I missed something beyond rumor and speculation. Do we have documentation provided by a reliable source that indicates who was awake or asleep? I can understand believing that CRSR and GR were awake since there is evidence of bodies being dragged and bloody footprints. But I can't recall any facts that indicate that anyone else was awake or not in bed.

I think folks are theorizing based on how the bodies were found and the way they were murdered, or found. CR2 was found between his bed and the wall per LM. They had to go back inside to look for him more than once, again, per LM. CR1 and GR could not have been in bed asleep. CR1 was shot through a door, and suffered 13 shots, and then drug to a bedroom, iirc. GR was said to sleep on a couch and there was an enormous pool of blood in the den floor. That leads me to believe he was standing in the den when he was murdered. The number of shots that DR received, would not have ordinarily led me to believe she was awake, but for the one under the chin. I feel they wanted her to know they were there and know what had happened, before she died. HMR, HHG, FR, and possibly KR, I do believe were either asleep, or were semi-awake, and executed in their beds. These are all theories on my part.

 

[GoofyJen]

I think folks are theorizing based on how the bodies were found and the way they were murdered, or found. CR2 was found between his bed and the wall per LM. They had to go back inside to look for him more than once, again, per LM. CR1 and GR could not have been in bed asleep. CR1 was shot through a door, and suffered 13 shots, and then drug to a bedroom, iirc. GR was found on a couch but there was an enormous pool of blood in the den floor. That leads me to believe he was standing in the den when he was murdered. The number of shots that DR received, would not have ordinarily led me to believe she was awake, but for the one under the chin. I feel they wanted her to know they were there and know what had happened, before she died. HMR, HHG, FR, and possibly KR, I do believe were either asleep, or were semi-awake, and executed in their beds. These are all theories on my part.

I don't recall LM saying those things about CRJR. I don't remember GR being found on the sofa either. I have followed this case since the live coverage on the day the bodies were discovered, as this happened 2 counties from where I live. <modsnip> I guess what I am asking is if we are stating things as "We know xyz... ", are we sure that we know some of these things?

 

[pepper 34]

It's very possible that KR was killed first, so that he could not be called upon to help should one of them try to get a call out to him for help, or, they knew he cut through UHR, on his way to work each day and it was too likely he'd see something. I don't see AW killing him. I don't think they had more than a distant, in-law, sort of passing knowledge, of one another. The same three probably went to his trailer as they did to the others' trailers. One or more handled the dog and one killed him. I've seen pictures of a dog, who I believe to be Brownie, and I got the feeling that his bark was worse than his bite. Then again, I could be completely wrong. Just sittin' here thinking. It's rare a day has gone by, since our news outlet reported on this case, that I haven't sat and thought about the families and the how. Unfortunately, people will do some heinous things, in the name of love.

I does make a lot of sense that, even with "only" 1 person to kill, the killer would still take along at least 1 other person... and, even better, 2. If KR had been able to kill his attacker, (no matter where "in line" the W's had placed him) then that would have left KR alive to tell LE who tried to kill him. And that would have tied his attacker firmly to the other deaths, as well.

So, that blows my theory of a W "using KR as a go-between BW and CRSr to make peace." Do you have any theory on what time KR was killed if he was killed first? I've always thought KR must have been first or last but I've never been able to decide what makes the most sense. For example, if he was killed last that would leave an easy escape through the back roads to the Flying W... but, then, too... are the backroads really such a great idea? Seeing as how just one person having trouble sleeping might be outside looking at the sky when a vehicle drives by at a time they wouldn't expect anyone to be driving by. So, they look a little bit harder at the vehicle than they ordinarily might if the hour were more normal.
Jmo / speculation

 

[rsd1200]

I don't recall LM saying those things about CRJR. I don't remember GR being found on the sofa either. I have followed this case since the live coverage on the day the bodies were discovered, as this happened 2 counties from where I live. <modsnip> But 5 years is a long time. I guess what I am asking is if we are stating things as "We know xyz... ", are we sure that we know some of these things?

It was a video, (iirc), later in the investigation, and LM was angry. He was mad that LE hadn't found more and spoke about them having to return inside three times to find his grandson. Idk if anyone else remembers that our not. I'd have to dig for it, but it's posted in this labyrinth somewhere. I fixed the GR error, it was not my intention to say he was found deceased on the couch. He was found deceased in the same room as CR1.

 

[rsd1200]

I don't recall LM saying those things about CRJR. I don't remember GR being found on the sofa either. I have followed this case since the live coverage on the day the bodies were discovered, as this happened 2 counties from where I live. <modsnip> But 5 years is a long time. I guess what I am asking is if we are stating things as "We know xyz... ", are we sure that we know some of these things?

<modsnip> My bad on miswording on GR. I jumped back on to fix it but not in time. My fingers move faster than my brain some days. Unless I have a link, then it's just my 2￠. I cannot verify at the moment, that LM said that. A lot of the links that I have are broken now. I will look though, and see if I can find that one, it hung with me, b/c it made it even worse. CR2 had grown up around JW.

 

[Cool Cats]

<modsnip>

"Chris Sr. and Gary were found in Chris’ trailer on Union Hill Road. They were the only two not shot while in their beds, and authorities have said the killers dragged their bodies through the house. Chris had been shot at least once through a door, scene evidence and wood fragments on his body found during an autopsy showed. He also had been shot more than any other victim: nine times."

Three years after killings, Rhoden murder case works way through court

Cool Cats:

Hey thanks! Now we have 3 references to Dana and Chris Jr. being in bed.

1.) A MSM article (from your above link) said, in reference to Chris Sr. and Gary: "they were the only two not shot while in their beds"

2.) Special Prosecutor Angela Canepa said at George's Bond Hearing:

There is not only evident guilt your Honor but overwhelming guilt of the defendant and his family demonstrating that they were guilty of one of the most heinous crimes in the history of the State of Ohio killing 8 people who lay sleeping in their beds, for the most part, all but 2, some with infants and toddlers nearby.

3.) BCI Lead Agent Ryan Scheiderer said at George's Bond Hearing:

Canepa:
As a result of your investigation did you make a determination whether you thought it was likely that a silencer had been used in this - in these homicides?

Scheiderer:
A suppressor yes.

Canepa:
A suppressor.

Scheiderer:
Yes.

Canepa:
What made you believe that?

Scheiderer:
'Cause at the one location there was 3 victims all in 3 different bedrooms that appeared to be killed in their sleep which to us told us that somehow - that the firearm had to be suppressed - the sound had to be suppressed.

Canepa:
Otherwise the others....

Scheiderer:
Would have waken up.

Canepa:
Been woke up. And was that at more than one location? Which 2 scenes specifically are you speaking of?

Scheiderer:
So, would be at Dana's residence which was Dana Hanna and Little Chris. And then at Frankie's residence which was Frankie and Hannah Hazel Gilley.

 

[Norrmajean]

It's very possible that KR was killed first, so that he could not be called upon to help should one of them try to get a call out to him for help, or, they knew he cut through UHR, on his way to work each day and it was too likely he'd see something. I don't see AW killing him. I don't think they had more than a distant, in-law, sort of passing knowledge, of one another. The same three probably went to his trailer as they did to the others' trailers. One or more handled the dog and one killed him. I've seen pictures of a dog, who I believe to be Brownie, and I got the feeling that his bark was worse than his bite. Then again, I could be completely wrong. Just sittin' here thinking. It's rare a day has gone by, since our news outlet reported on this case, that I haven't sat and thought about the families and the how. Unfortunately, people will do some heinous things, in the name of love.

I could not agree more with everything you just said. I never thought AW was a shooter and the fact that JW led LE to recover 3 weapons makes sense. I also think KR was killed first to avoid him possibly being called or showing up unexpectedly. And yes agree to not a day without a thought for the horror the victims suffered that night. The idea that CR2 was awake and hiding breaks my heart.

 

[Becky Starkey]

It was a video, (iirc), later in the investigation, and LM was angry. He was mad that LE hadn't found more and spoke about them having to return inside three times to find his grandson. Idk if anyone else remembers that our not. I'd have to dig for it, but it's posted in this labyrinth somewhere. I fixed the GR error, it was not my intention to say he was found deceased on the couch. He was found deceased in the same room as CR1.

I do remember it. Can't fathom why it took the cops that many times to find him. That's ridiculous. I surmiss that's why he was shot in top of the head. If only he had a gun with him, this would have been a different story. I would think CR1 and GR were both shot in that room with all the blood then dragged into the bedroom. CR1 was decomposed the most and so would be the first one shot imo.

 

[Dudly]

It's very possible that KR was killed first, so that he could not be called upon to help should one of them try to get a call out to him for help, or, they knew he cut through UHR, on his way to work each day and it was too likely he'd see something. I don't see AW killing him. I don't think they had more than a distant, in-law, sort of passing knowledge, of one another. The same three probably went to his trailer as they did to the others' trailers. One or more handled the dog and one killed him. I've seen pictures of a dog, who I believe to be Brownie, and I got the feeling that his bark was worse than his bite. Then again, I could be completely wrong. Just sittin' here thinking. It's rare a day has gone by, since our news outlet reported on this case, that I haven't sat and thought about the families and the how. Unfortunately, people will do some heinous things, in the name of love.

You are correct. Some of the most heinous acts in history were in the name of religion or love...

 

[Becky Starkey]

Jake has stated they began a little before midnight and finished a bit after.

 

[ohioexpat63]

What's most important to me is the case has been solved based off JWs admission in court. Anything being discussed or speculated upon, now, only statisfies my curiosity as to the why and how? I'm not interested in the morbid gore.

I speculated on the body positions and whether the victims were awake, or awoken, based on interviews by LM and JMs wife at the time. Even though Scheider was speculating when he said they APPEARED to be killed in their sleep, it isnt important and has zero bearing on the final outcome in court.

So, I do apologize if I in any way took away from the conversation about the sound proofing of mobile homes. I will refrain from offering an opinion not based, in part, on facts.

MOO, JMO, Speculation.

 

[rsd1200]

I do remember it. Can't fathom why it took the cops that many times to find him. That's ridiculous. I surmiss that's why he was shot in top of the head. If only he had a gun with him, this would have been a different story. I would think CR1 and GR were both shot in that room with all the blood then dragged into the bedroom. CR1 was decomposed the most and so would be the first one shot imo.

I'm glad someone else remembered! I haven't found it yet. If it was a video, I may never find it now. I felt like they got CR1 coming our of his room and into the hallway. Just a feeling, since they shot him through and interior door, iirc, of what I think was probably his bedroom. They knew he'd be the most difficult so they, imo, just unloaded on him before he could get close to them, or get a shot off himself. I felt like GR was awakened from where he slept and held at gunpoint in the den. They killed him there with the larger caliber firearm and drug him out of view into the closest room, CR1's. If they did shoot him where he slept, they'd still likely have moved his body out of the den. I've always thought that just because the victims gave the impression of being asleep in their beds, it did not mean they were. If one is in tight quarters, no firearm within reaching distance, and babies in the home, my guess is, they'd cooperate and stay in bed, if only for the sake of their children. At the end of it all, only the victims and the Ws know for sure what happened that night.

 

[rsd1200]

Jake has stated they began a little before midnight and finished a bit after.

I missed that. Was that in his guilty plea? I was figuring in about two hours for the murders, and then they'd have to go take care of cleaning up and dumping evidence, which, thankfully they didn't do as well as they thought, so that would make sense to start at that time, so they could factor in that extra clean up time. For some reason, I always saw them as just making it back home a few hours before LE knocked on their door, but I've always seen them as idiots who just barely managed to pull this off. I don't think JW is an idiot, the others, maybe, but he's the showman (jm2￠).

 

[rsd1200]

What's most important to me is the case has been solved based off JWs admission in court. Anything being discussed or speculated upon, now, only statisfies my curiosity as to the why and how? I'm not interested in the morbid gore.

I speculated on the body positions and whether the victims were awake, or awoken, based on interviews by LM and JMs wife at the time. Even though Scheider was speculating when he said they APPEARED to be killed in their sleep, it isnt important and has zero bearing on the final outcome in court.

So, I do apologize if I in any way took away from the conversation about the sound proofing of mobile homes. I will refrain from offering an opinion not based, in part, on facts.

MOO, JMO, Speculation.

Jake has plead guilty and has agreed to testify against the others. Us tossing out theories on the hows and such, and putting in out 2￠, as long as we don't call it the gospel w/o a link, is of no consequence to the case. There are threads and threads of posts without links, of folks who have stated things as fact, which were well prior to the plea deal. Please don't stop posting unless it's just b/c you want to do so.

 

[Becky Starkey]

I missed that. Was that in his guilty plea? I was figuring in about two hours for the murders, and then they'd have to go take care of cleaning up and dumping evidence, which, thankfully they didn't do as well as they thought, so that would make sense to start at that time, so they could factor in that extra clean up time. For some reason, I always saw them as just making it back home a few hours before LE knocked on their door, but I've always seen them as idiots who just barely managed to pull this off. I don't think JW is an idiot, the others, maybe, but he's the showman (jm2￠).

Yes, I believe so.

 

[Cool Cats]

Well it's a very precarious situation the 3 Wagners have put themselves in, breaking out of jail as they wanted to do is not on their table anymore, they only have 2 choices at this point.

Go to trial and dispute Jake's testimony or plead guilty.

George will go to trial he will do everything he can to raise his son. Jake gave up on raising his child but not George.

I would be shocked if George pleads guilty especially since the DP is off the table.
But then again why go through a trial if the gun he used actually has his fingerprints?

I can think of one defense tactic for that - he used his gun to hunt, not to commit murder, thus of course his prints are all over it.

In fact - according to Scheiderer at George's bond hearing - BCI has a recording of him specifically saying that he bought a night scope to hunt raccoons. I think his attorney will use that if Jake tries to tie him to a murder weapon.

Canepa's closing argument at Bond Hearing

2:09:17
"He acknowledges buying the night scope which obviously would be very handy for that - for sneaking into people's residences in the middle of the night and killing them while they lay sleeping."

No links means opinions only

@Caylee Advocate thanks for your nice post the other day.