GUILTY OH Pike Co., 8 in Rhoden Family Murdered Over Custody Issue, 4 Members Wagner Family Arrested #62

[IType]

Probably just a pipe dream on my part, but wouldn't it be lovely if AW suddenly wants to speak to her brother and his significant other because she wants to tell them she plans to change her plea? Probably not likely to happen, but I'm keeping my fingers crossed anyway! IMO

 

[Betty P]

The subpoena duces tecum is interesting, asking for JW's mental health and medical records. I don't see how this is legal. The HIPAA law requires JW's signature before his medical records are provided to anyone, even his own attorney. If JW signed a HIPAA form for his records to be released to the prosecution and/or his attorney, those records can't be given to GW's attorney without JW's permission/signature. A HIPAA form very specifically states who is allowed access to those records. IMO

The push for a trial is probably just a delaying tactic. The people who want to write books, present podcasts, consult on making movies and Netflix shows want more courtroom scenes, more media circus. <modsnip>

Judge Deering's gag order has stifled discussion of the gory details and some folks see a trial as the only way. <modsnip>

<modsnip>

MOO

 

[Ann99]

Speculation:

I'd like to see the detail report of Jake's confession. Perhaps, he lessened the degree of GW4s involvement. Maybe that's a reason for GW4s defense attorneys recent actions. I think it's just a hail Mary but who knows.

MO
You could be right. If the two brothers were as close as we believe, Jake could have wanted to take death penalty away for the sake of George4 . Maybe Jake did try to indicate Geo4 had "minimal" involvement. But this would be from the mind of Wagner, ( not reality) with Jake minimizing Geo4 participation in all events leading up to and during 4/22 and afterwards. The law doesn't see it that way, neither does society nor the facts of the case.
I'm not making Jake a hero, I'm not taking up for either Jake or Geo4.
Something had to incentivize Jake.
Maybe it was concern for his brother.
MO

 

[Betty P]

The push for a trial is probably just a delaying tactic. The people who want to write books, present podcasts, consult on making movies and Netflix shows want more courtroom scenes, more media circus. <modsnip>

Judge Deering's gag order has stifled discussion of the gory details and some folks see a trial as the only way. <modsnip>

<modsnip>

MOO

I think it's still safe to say that the latest filing by GW's attorney tries to address the issue of mental illness. Check the links above to the documents recently posted (moderator approved). They do specifically mention mental health records.

A family that has brutally planned and murdered 8 people in cold blood is likely to have some problems with mental health, personality disorder, etc. Certainly, its not enough to consider them incompetent. Their extensive planning, execution and cover up of the crimes clearly indicates they knew what they were doing.

We've long discussed here the theory that the Wagners are an "enmeshed" family. Statements by the prosecution have said their lives were very intermingled, that they did everything together. Normal people don't live and commit mass murder that way.

More details of evidence revealed in George Wagner IV motion hearing

During cross-examination by Special Prosecutor Angela Canepa, Scheiderer said that the Wagners were very suspicious of being wire tapped and were engaged in counter-surveillance to avoid detection. He indicated that evidence suggests that preparation for the murders began to take place in February 2016.

“The Wagner family, through what we found in the investigation as well as their own admittance, is (that) they are very close … There has not been a period of time where George Wagner has not lived with his brother or his mother. Now, at that time he was not living with his father except the night of the murders his father was there.”

Scheiderer said that the Wagners’ finances were intermingled and that they worked together, lived together, homeschooled together, and raised their kids together.

“Everything was done together,” he said.

According to Scheiderer, George IV had been married, and he indicated that when George and his wife divorced there were some child custody issues, with the mother giving up all of her parental rights to George IV. Scheiderer indicated that the mother of the child was not represented by an attorney but that George was. He said that George IV’s wife fled the residence after she and George had an argument and Angela Wagner allegedly made a comment that she was going to kill her.

How Enmeshed Families Function

When Family Relationships Become Toxic: The Trauma of Enmeshment - GoodTherapy.org Therapy Blog

​

 

[Cool Cats]

The push for a trial is probably just a delaying tactic. The people who want to write books, present podcasts, consult on making movies and Netflix shows want more courtroom scenes, more media circus. They want courtroom drama, OJ Simpson style and grisly crime scene photos. The trashy people who do reality TV shows have invested a lot of money in covering this tragedy and they can't afford to have the show stop so soon.

Judge Deering's gag order has stifled discussion of the gory details and some folks see a trial as the only way. They want to profit from the families' tragedy. Maybe GW4's attorney sees himself as the next Bob Kardashian or Robert Shapiro. Lucrative deals to show up on tv as an "expert".

Well Tony will be glad to get the $$ - due to the civil lawsuit he filed -
for the 4 grandkids because that is what is going to happen if creeps try to profit off of his family

I expect the 5 Wagners + RN to get sued in court with a jury trial as asked for in the civil lawsuit unless they settle out of court.

The pending trial is not Nash or anyone trying to prolong the proceedings for profit,
it's just Nash has to defend George at trial if George wants his trial.

After Nash reads and or listens to all of Jake's statements it is possible he could advise George that the testimony is too compelling against him and he should just take a guilty plea.

But ultimately if there is a trial it is George's call.

He doesn't care about the families or strangers trying to profit off of other people's pain etc... All he cares about is George. Has no remorse takes no responsibility, probably still wants to break out of jail and seek revenge. He will never change.....Opinion. (I think he shot Gary what an @#$%&)

 

[LMDlong]

Wonder why AW wants to speak to these specific people.
Between all of them they are bound to blurt out something incriminating so, I say get the recorders ready and let AW talk .

With all the developments with theses cases if FW and CN are to be witnesses would she be permitted to talk with them ? Don’t know the legality of this.

 

[Fight4justice]

I wish we could get a statement from F.W. concerning her grandsons plea deal.

 

[Puzzles8]

Well Tony will be glad to get the $$ - due to the civil lawsuit he filed -
for the 4 grandkids because that is what is going to happen if creeps try to profit off of his family

I expect the 5 Wagners + RN to get sued in court with a jury trial as asked for in the civil lawsuit unless they settle out of court.

The pending trial is not Nash or anyone trying to prolong the proceedings for profit,
it's just Nash has to defend George at trial if George wants his trial.

After Nash reads and or listens to all of Jake's statements it is possible he could advise George that the testimony is too compelling against him and he should just take a guilty plea.

But ultimately if there is a trial it is George's call.

He doesn't care about the families or strangers trying to profit off of other people's pain etc... All he cares about is George. Has no remorse takes no responsibility, probably still wants to break out of jail and seek revenge. He will never change.....Opinion. (I think he shot Gary what an @#$%&)

BBM

But ultimately if there is a trial it is George's call.

I respectfully disagree with you here, I don't think it is George's decision whether or not to go to trial. That call will be made by AC and the Rhoden/Gilley/Manley families. It's their call whether or not to accept any proposed plea deal.

I am very curious about AW's list of people she would like to communicate with.

Fred? I was under the impression AW and FW did not like each other much. I'd be curious why she would like to talk to her. Angie has got to know their conversations will be monitored and recorded. I sense she is not faring well in jail.

JMO, MOO

 

[Chelly]

BBM

But ultimately if there is a trial it is George's call.

I respectfully disagree with you here, I don't think it is George's decision whether or not to go to trial. That call will be made by AC and the Rhoden/Gilley/Manley families. It's their call whether or not to accept any proposed plea deal.

I am very curious about AW's list of people she would like to communicate with.

Fred? I was under the impression AW and FW did not like each other much. I'd be curious why she would like to talk to her. Angie has got to know their conversations will be monitored and recorded. I sense she is not faring well in jail.

JMO, MOO

George can elect to go to trial.

 

[Cool Cats]

BBM

But ultimately if there is a trial it is George's call.

I respectfully disagree with you here, I don't think it is George's decision whether or not to go to trial. That call will be made by AC and the Rhoden/Gilley/Manley families. It's their call whether or not to accept any proposed plea deal.

I am very curious about AW's list of people she would like to communicate with.

Fred? I was under the impression AW and FW did not like each other much. I'd be curious why she would like to talk to her. Angie has got to know their conversations will be monitored and recorded. I sense she is not faring well in jail.

JMO, MOO

AC and the families weigh in on any plea deals the Wagner's propose, they do not decide if a Wagner goes to trial or not.

It would be against the Constitution if defendants were denied trials by
prosecutors and victims.

No one can force a defendant to take a plea instead of going to trial if he wants his trial.

If I was indicted and wanted my trial no one could take that right away from me.

It is George's Constitutional right to have a trial by jury.

If instead he wants to plea then that's when Canepa and the families accept or not accept his plea.

The Sixth Amendment ...

Guarantees the rights of criminal defendants. The right to a public trial without unnecessary delay, the right to a lawyer, the right to an impartial jury, and the right to know who your accusers are and the nature of the charges and evidence against you.
Welcome to LII › sixth_...
Sixth Amendment | U.S. Constitution | US Law | LII / Legal Information ...

 

[Puzzles8]

Well Tony will be glad to get the $$ - due to the civil lawsuit he filed -
for the 4 grandkids because that is what is going to happen if creeps try to profit off of his family

I expect the 5 Wagners + RN to get sued in court with a jury trial as asked for in the civil lawsuit unless they settle out of court.

The pending trial is not Nash or anyone trying to prolong the proceedings for profit,
it's just Nash has to defend George at trial if George wants his trial.

After Nash reads and or listens to all of Jake's statements it is possible he could advise George that the testimony is too compelling against him and he should just take a guilty plea.

But ultimately if there is a trial it is George's call.

He doesn't care about the families or strangers trying to profit off of other people's pain etc... All he cares about is George. Has no remorse takes no responsibility, probably still wants to break out of jail and seek revenge. He will never change.....Opinion. (I think he shot Gary what an @#$%&)

BBM
Well Tony will be glad to get the $$ - due to the civil lawsuit he filed -
for the 4 grandkids because that is what is going to happen if creeps try to profit off of his family

IANAL
JMO, I think the IRS probably has first priority over FW and other's assets. It is my opinion that the IRS will be getting involved after the murder trials.

JMO, MOO, etc

 

[Chelly]

AC and the families weigh in on any plea deals the Wagner's propose, they do not decide if a Wagner goes to trial or not.

It would be against the Constitution if defendants were denied trials by
prosecutors and victims.

No one can force a defendant to take a plea instead of going to trial if he wants his trial.

If I was indicted and wanted my trial no one could take that right away from me.

It is George's Constitutional right to have a trial by jury.

If instead he wants to plea then that's when Canepa and the families accept or not accept his plea.

The Sixth Amendment

guarantees the rights of criminal defendants, including the right to a public trial without unnecessary delay, the right to a lawyer, the right to an impartial jury, and the right to know who your accusers are and the nature of the charges and evidence against you.
Welcome to LII › sixth_...
Sixth Amendment | U.S. Constitution | US Law | LII / Legal Information ...

Amen! @Cool Cats

 

[Chelly]

BBM
Well Tony will be glad to get the $$ - due to the civil lawsuit he filed -
for the 4 grandkids because that is what is going to happen if creeps try to profit off of his family

IANAL
JMO, I think the IRS probably has first priority over FW and other's assets. It is my opinion that the IRS will be getting involved after the murder trials.

JMO, MOO, etc

I think FW's assets will be depleted and IRS will have fleeting interest in her. my opinion.

 

[Cool Cats]

Amen! @Cool Cats

 

[Everything22]

BBM

But ultimately if there is a trial it is George's call.

I respectfully disagree with you here, I don't think it is George's decision whether or not to go to trial. That call will be made by AC and the Rhoden/Gilley/Manley families. It's their call whether or not to accept any proposed plea deal.

I am very curious about AW's list of people she would like to communicate with.

Fred? I was under the impression AW and FW did not like each other much. I'd be curious why she would like to talk to her. Angie has got to know their conversations will be monitored and recorded. I sense she is not faring well in jail.

JMO, MOO

Thank you so much for reminding us of this!

 

[Puzzles8]

George can elect to go to trial.

Right, but right now George4 only has one option and that is to go to trial, unless he tries a plea deal. Even so, not his choice if the Prosecution declines or accepts the plea.

This is not at all in George's hands

JMO, MOO

 

[Everything22]

AC and the families weigh in on any plea deals the Wagner's propose, they do not decide if a Wagner goes to trial or not.

It would be against the Constitution if defendants were denied trials by
prosecutors and victims.

No one can force a defendant to take a plea instead of going to trial if he wants his trial.

If I was indicted and wanted my trial no one could take that right away from me.

It is George's Constitutional right to have a trial by jury.

If instead he wants to plea then that's when Canepa and the families accept or not accept his plea.

The Sixth Amendment ...

Guarantees the rights of criminal defendants. The right to a public trial without unnecessary delay, the right to a lawyer, the right to an impartial jury, and the right to know who your accusers are and the nature of the charges and evidence against you.
Welcome to LII › sixth_...
Sixth Amendment | U.S. Constitution | US Law | LII / Legal Information ...

In my opinion, Canepa will never accept plea deals less than a guilty plea and LWOP from the remaining three Wagners. And I sincerely hope the three left will work themselves right back to the DP and be convicted. My Opinion Only.

 

[Puzzles8]

I think FW's assets will be depleted and IRS will have fleeting interest in her. my opinion.

You make a good point, we really don't know what FW's assets are right now.

All we really know is that she owns a lot of land, we don't know what kind of liquid assets (ready cash) she has, or thinly veiled LLC's.

My point is that if the IRS determines she owes back taxes, their claim will come before Tony's.

IANAL so take this with a grain of salt.

I'd really appreciate if a current CPA or attorney could weight in on this!

JMO, MOO

 

[Chelly]

You make a good point, we really don't know what FW's assets are right now.

All we really know is that she owns a lot of land, we don't know what kind of liquid assets (ready cash) she has, or thinly veiled LLC's.

My point is that if the IRS determines she owes back taxes, their claim will come before Tony's.

IANAL so take this with a grain of salt.

I'd really appreciate if a current CPA or attorney could weight in on this!

JMO, MOO

Oh right on @Puzzles8. I wasn't even thinking of back taxes.

 

[Puzzles8]

AC and the families weigh in on any plea deals the Wagner's propose, they do not decide if a Wagner goes to trial or not.



If I was indicted and wanted my trial no one could take that right away from me.
It would be against the Constitution if defendants were denied trials by
prosecutors and victims.

No one can force a defendant to take a plea instead of going to trial if he wants his trial.

It is George's Constitutional right to have a trial by jury.

If instead he wants to plea then that's when Canepa and the families accept or not accept his plea.

The Sixth Amendment ...

Guarantees the rights of criminal defendants. The right to a public trial without unnecessary delay, the right to a lawyer, the right to an impartial jury, and the right to know who your accusers are and the nature of the charges and evidence against you.
Welcome to LII › sixth_...
Sixth Amendment | U.S. Constitution | US Law | LII / Legal Information ...

BBM

Well then who ultimately do you think decides if George goes to trial? It is certainly not G4 or his attorneys.

Who has the power to make that ultimate decision? Whether G4 goes to trial or not? IMO that decision is 100% in the hands of the Prosecution.

Right now going to trial is G4's ONLY choice.

I have never suggested he is/will be "forced" to take a plea, he doesn't even have that option now.

Who do you think is denying G4's Constitutional right to a fair trial?
JMO, MOO