GUILTY OH Pike Co., 8 in Rhoden Family Murdered Over Custody Issue, 4 Members Wagner Family Arrested #63

[Covert Operative]

**Documents from Court view approved by moderator**

The state wanted to meet with the remaining 3 defendants attorneys before handing over JW's proffer. They have met with two already, one being G4's attorney. Would there be some reason that they insist on meeting with all 3 before they turn it over to the ones they have already met with?
G4's lawyer did file an objection to the extension.

 

[Ann99]

**Documents from Court view approved by moderator**

The state wanted to meet with the remaining 3 defendants attorneys before handing over JW's proffer. They have met with two already, one being G4's attorney. Would there be some reason that they insist on meeting with all 3 before they turn it over to the ones they have already met with?
G4's lawyer did file an objection to the extension.

This is just an assumption. Maybe to keep all things equal under the law and in the eyes of the court. So no one single defendant can later claim she/he was treated differently and therefore was at a disadvantage in making an informed decision regarding the deal put before her/him.

 

[Cool Cats]

This is just an assumption. Maybe to keep all things equal under the law and in the eyes of the court. So no one single defendant can later claim she/he was treated differently and therefore was at a disadvantage in making an informed decision regarding the deal put before her/him.

Dot all I's Cross all T's

Good call. Note this important fact that supports your assumption.
It's the prosecution that wants the meetings, and George's defense is trying to kill it.

Canepa wants an extension to have the last meeting and then that would cover everyone.

Nash doesn't want the extension which means the prosecution can't cover everyone.

Guess why ....... A_ _ _ _ L .... LOL !

Nash is throwing "the book" at the prosecution with several Motions.
He even got a Bond Hearing when I believe he knew George would not get Bond.

He said he wanted to
"see what this is really all about."

He is a good defense attorney for George for trial.

... 2 Cents ...

 

[Betty P]

**Documents from Court view approved by moderator**

The state wanted to meet with the remaining 3 defendants attorneys before handing over JW's proffer. They have met with two already, one being G4's attorney. Would there be some reason that they insist on meeting with all 3 before they turn it over to the ones they have already met with?
G4's lawyer did file an objection to the extension.

Just a guess, but maybe the state wants to have a chance to answer any questions, explain the proffer, etc. so everyone understands and has questions answered all at once. Having the 3 defense attorneys file motions when they have a question or objection, one by one, is going to drag the process out much longer.

When you look back on all the motions that have been filed, all the objections raised by the defense attorneys, none of them have been substantive and sometimes not even accurate. The only substantive objections, JMO, had to do with allowing the defendants to wear street clothes, not be visibly shackled, etc. The rest were just complaining about delays in discovery, mostly unsubstantiated.

The other substantive hearings dealt with AW violating the ban on talking about the case to family members.

JMO, it makes sense to me for the state to get together with all defense attorneys for a presentation on the proffer with Q&A instead of letting the defense attorneys keep dragging it out with new motions.

 

[Betty P]

Dot all I's Cross all T's

Good call. Note this important fact that supports your assumption.
It's the prosecution that wants the meetings, and George's defense is trying to kill it.

Canepa wants an extension to have the last meeting and then that would cover everyone.

Nash doesn't want the extension which means the prosecution can't cover everyone.

Guess why ....... A_ _ _ _ L .... LOL !

Nash is throwing "the book" at the prosecution with several Motions. He is a good defense attorney for George. He even got a Bond Hearing when I believe he knew George would not get Bond.

Not so sure about the latter. I don't see how this is helping GW4 at all. He's just running out the clock, making the pretrial process last as long as possible. $$$$

JMO, Nash's motions will continue to be frivolous.

What do you mean by "Nash doesn't want the extension which means the prosecution can't cover everyone." No offense, I'm just not sure I understand by that. How does that benefit GW4?

ETA: The extension is only for 11 days. Not very long.

 

[Covert Operative]

Dot all I's Cross all T's

Good call. Note this important fact that supports your assumption.
It's the prosecution that wants the meetings, and George's defense is trying to kill it.

Canepa wants an extension to have the last meeting and then that would cover everyone.

Nash doesn't want the extension which means the prosecution can't cover everyone.

Guess why ....... A_ _ _ _ L .... LOL !

Nash is throwing "the book" at the prosecution with several Motions. He is a good defense attorney for George. He even got a Bond Hearing when I believe he knew George would not get Bond.

It seems John Patrick Parker does not care or can control if they meet with the others I do not think, he wants them to turn over the proffer to him since they have had the meeting with him already is how I take it.

 

[Cool Cats]

Not so sure about the latter. I don't see how this is helping GW4 at all. He's just running out the clock, making the pretrial process last as long as possible. $$$$

Not about money unless it was his idea to TAKE A WHOLE YEAR!!!!

To go to trial. You have to admit he got a good perspective from the Bond Hearing. But now the prosecution knows his trial strategy. He basically spelled it out....2 Cents.....

Attorney Richard Nash From George's Bond Hearing

First off I want to apologize ah, an hour and a half ago I felt like stopping this to remind the court that this isn't about Jake Wagner this isn't about Angela Wagner, this is about George Wagner the 4th.

But I figured it would be best to just say nothing to see what this is really all about. And so this is why we heard so much testimony regarding order history, regarding who bought what, who did what, who had motive, whose child was in question.

There's been a lot of testimony regarding whose account was used or whose rewards was used, nothing pointing in the direction of George Wagner.

Ah, there is some testimony regarding a palm print on a gun, there's no testimony that that was George Wagner's hand.

Not only that but there was a list soposedly that was retrieved from a phone but more importantly not George Wagner's phone.

Ah, there was evidence regarding a solvent catcher or suppressor or again a 22 caliber. Testimony we heard here today had nothing to do with George.

Really your honor, this whole case, if there is a case, and I'm not saying it is, but it's about Edward Jake Wagner and Angela Wagner.

The only testimony we heard, and we can boil it down to one minute, and that's that they did everything together. And therefore based on that, they want the court to believe that the presumption is great that George Wagner was involved in a homicide.

 

[Betty P]

It seems John Patrick Parker does not care or can control if they meet with the others I do not think, he wants them to turn over the proffer to him since they have had the meeting with him already is how I take it.

Is John Patrick Parker trying to control how the other defense attorneys manage their defense strategies? JMO, GW4's defense attorneys handle his case differently because that's their modus operandi or whatever. To me, it doesn't necessarily mean GW4 is less guilty than the other defendants.

 

[Betty P]

Not about money unless it was his idea to TAKE A WHOLE YEAR!!!!

To go to trial. You have to admit he got a good perspective from the Bond Hearing. But now the prosecution knows his trial strategy. He basically spelled it out....2 Cents.....

Attorney Richard Nash From George's Bond Hearing.

First off I want to apologize ah, an hour and a half ago I felt like stopping this to remind the court that this isn't about Jake Wagner this isn't about Angela Wagner, this is about George Wagner the 4th.

But I figured it would be best to just say nothing to see what this is really all about. And so this is why we heard so much testimony regarding order history, regarding who bought what, who did what, who had motive, whose child was in question.

There's been a lot of testimony regarding whose account was used or whose rewards was used, nothing pointing in the direction of George Wagner.

Ah, there is some testimony regarding a palm print on a gun, there's no testimony that that was George Wagner's hand.

Not only that but there was a list soposedly that was retrieved from a phone but more importantly not George Wagner's phone.

Ah, there was evidence regarding a solvent catcher or suppressor or again a 22 caliber. Testimony we heard here today had nothing to do with George.

Really your honor, this whole case, if there is a case, and I'm not saying it is, but it's about Edward Jake Wagner and Angela Wagner.

The only testimony we heard, and we can boil it down to one minute, and that's that they did everything together. And therefore based on that, they want the court to believe that the presumption is great that George Wagner was involved in a homicide.

Cool Cats, May 29, 2021

Yes, that was an exaggeration by Nash about the evidence against GW4, if not a blatant falsehood. There is significant evidence of GW4's involvement in all activities related to these murders.

He made a big deal out of GW4's DNA not being found at the crime scene. That was before Jake told them where to find all the other evidence, including weapons and a knife and 2 other vehicles.

 

[Covert Operative]

Is John Patrick Parker trying to control how the other defense attorneys manage their defense strategies? JMO, GW4's defense attorneys handle his case differently because that's their modus operandi or whatever. To me, it doesn't necessarily mean GW4 is less guilty than the other defendants.

I do not think he is trying to control their strategy. It does not mean he is less guilty than the others but for some reason they probably intend to portray it that way . JW may have said he was less guilty. No telling what JW may have said.

 

[Cool Cats]

Yes, that was an exaggeration by Nash about the evidence against GW4, if not a blatant falsehood. There is significant evidence of GW4's involvement in all activities related to these murders.

He made a big deal out of GW4's DNA not being found at the crime scene. That was before Jake told them where to find all the other evidence, including weapons and a knife and 2 other vehicles.

Ya gotta wonder if forensics is going to find George's DNA, trace evidence, partial palm or finger prints or trace prints, hair, DNA or prints or trace evidence in the cement etc... On anything!

The buckets, recording device, phones, cameras, knife, guns especially the Glock, and anything else they couldn't burn.

 

[Covert Operative]

Is John Patrick Parker trying to control how the other defense attorneys manage their defense strategies? JMO, GW4's defense attorneys handle his case differently because that's their modus operandi or whatever. To me, it doesn't necessarily mean GW4 is less guilty than the other defendants.

Not sure I understand but John Patrick Parker is G4 defense attorney.

 

[Ann99]

Is John Patrick Parker trying to control how the other defense attorneys manage their defense strategies? JMO, GW4's defense attorneys handle his case differently because that's their modus operandi or whatever. To me, it doesn't necessarily mean GW4 is less guilty than the other defendants.

The objection is very weak and is no more than lawyers doing what they do.
Objecting to everything.
They have no other course of action as their clients are guilty.
Parker and Nash are chalking up billable hours $$ and making a name for themselves. Also protecting their reputations of providing a proper defense, effective representation.

What I wonder is - will AC impose a time limit on the remaining 3 Defendants to formally accept this deal? Can she do that?
A plea deal does not remain on the table indefinitely. It has already dragged on.
So can AC and will AC make sure all parties get the same information, the supplemental discovery, the recording ** on the same day and then give a time frame to accept or decline?
That could be why AC wants to keep all Defendants and all Attorneys in lock step with these final conversations and then provide the supplemental discovery which is in the form of a recording. I can't imagine anyone, AC or Defense, wanting the responsibility of that recording being out there...
AC is already locking them in to action, as it seems all summer vacations will be over and so, no excuses.

** It is an audio recording, right?

 

[Covert Operative]

The objection is very weak and is no more than lawyers doing what they do.
Objecting to everything.
They have no other course of action as their clients are guilty.
Parker and Nash are chalking up billable hours $$ and making a name for themselves. Also protecting their reputations of providing a proper defense, effective representation.

What I wonder is - will AC impose a time limit on the remaining 3 Defendants to formally accept this deal? Can she do that?
A plea deal does not remain on the table indefinitely. It has already dragged on.
So can AC and will AC make sure all parties get the same information on the same day (the recording) and give a time frame to accept or decline?
That could be why AC wants to keep all Defendants and all Attorneys in lock step with these final conversations and then provide the supplemental discovery which is in the form of a recording. I can't imagine anyone, AC or Defense, wanting the responsibility of that recording being out there...
AC is already locking them in to action, as it seems all summer vacations will be over and so, no excuses.

Do you think she is offering a deal and that is why she needs to speak to all 3? That was my first thought as to why she would need to speak to all 3 but I was just guessing.

I guess I cannot see why take a LWOP plea deal unless there is some incentive which I cannot think of what it would be. I feel there has already been pleas offered to one or more before now that were not accepted. While one may get something besides LWOP (not much better) I cannot see all 3 getting something better.

 

[Piffcat]

Do we know if the cement buckets were immersed in pond H20?

Or buried in the dirt? Or both?

Not exactly sure but at the least the buckets were in the pond but possibly even buried under the muck. Burying wouldnt make much sense when you have legit like acres of ponds. They obviously did some nefarious research. Ground penetrating radar can find disturbed ground metal detectors too. But ponds are so much harder to traverse. As long as the cement defeated the metal detector it's a needle in a haystack. Remember the big searches after Angela's mom took the deal? They were searching pond at fwf after the proffer. Seems someone knew they were in a pond at fwf and that still wasnt eno8gh info to locate them!! I dont think I can truly understand how big that place is coming from new engalnd

 

[Ann99]

No, I don't think AC is offering any kind of new deal.
Just reaffirming the same deal that is on the table now.
Each defendant must admit guilt, saying "I am Guilty, Your Honor " to all charges and get LWOP.
Reject that deal and you go to trial and death penalty could be back on the agenda. I don't believe it has been made clear that LWOP remains an option available to them without their admitting guilt.
I think she is going to set it up to say take it or leave it within 48 hours.
I could be completely wrong. I bet AC will really play hard ball.
Those attorneys will be speechless after hearing Jakes voice and words explaining it all.

 

[Covert Operative]

No, I don't think AC is offering any kind of new deal.
Just reaffirming the same deal that is on the table now.
Each defendant must admit guilt, saying "I am Guilty, Your Honor " to all charges and get LWOP.
Reject that deal and you go to trial and death penalty could be back on the agenda. I don't believe it has been made clear that LWOP remains an option available to them without their admitting guilt.
I think she is going to set it up to say take it or leave it within 48 hours.
I could be completely wrong. I bet AC will really play hard ball.
Those attorneys will be speechless after hearing Jakes voice and words explaining it all.

I think they know the DP is off the table as long as JW testifies as he said. Unless his deal falls through for some reason I am not sure how the DP would be back on. I do find it strange that another co defendant can negotiate a DP off the table for other co defedants.

 

[Ann99]

I think they know the DP is off the table as long as JW testifies as he said. Unless his deal falls through for some reason I am not sure how the DP would be back on. I do find it strange that another co defendant can negotiate a DP off the table for other co defedants.

Not sure I can explain my thinking very well. My theory, understanding of the plea deal.
I have never fully understood the plea deal - as you say, strange that another co defendant can negotiate a DP off the table for other co defendants.
Jake agreed to admit guilt and to testify truthfully about all that happened before, during and after. It is my understanding that Jake's testimony could be in various forms, deposition, recorded interviews, etc. So Jake basically has already testified. Told all.
So, if the remaining 3 defendants refute or try to negate Jake's testimony, and demand a trial, they are basically negating the plea deal for LWOP for themselves.
If Jake supposedly (per 3 Wagners) did not tell the truth, then the plea deal can not stand.
Jakes plea deal was basically for himself, but the other 3 could tag along and benefit if they cooperated and admitted guilt.
No admission of guilt by remaining 3 Wagners, demand for trial therefore means Jake was not truthful. So DP back on.
I do think Jake retains his own deal of LWOP.
I know, it is a theory that is convoluted. Just like the Wagners.

 

[Piffcat]

We really haven't sleuthed the hours just after the crime yet. I agree with @almond they must have been done with the crimes about 2:00am.
Why were 2 vehicles needed? This must be an integral part of picture. They either were being efficient and having one team remove evidence from scene while others destroyed scene. They had to get to Kenneth's a d expose the grow. Ish we knew which pond guns were in that would narrow down the route

Sunrise data April 22, 2016.

5:07am Astronomical Twilight
5:42am Nautical Twilight
6:16am Civil daylight
6:46am Sunrise
Sunrise and sunset times in Piketon, April 2016

What do we think they did between 2:00am and 5:42am (just a pick a time)? 3 hours 42 minutes.

They had to at least temporarily hide all of the evidence and the trucks, clean up and get back to Peterson for when LE stopped by.

Ideas?

 

[Cool Cats]

Not exactly sure but at the least the buckets were in the pond but possibly even buried under the muck. Burying wouldnt make much sense when you have legit like acres of ponds. They obviously did some nefarious research. Ground penetrating radar can find disturbed ground metal detectors too. But ponds are so much harder to traverse. As long as the cement defeated the metal detector it's a needle in a haystack. Remember the big searches after Angela's mom took the deal? They were searching pond at fwf after the proffer. Seems someone knew they were in a pond at fwf and that still wasnt eno8gh info to locate them!! I dont think I can truly understand how big that place is coming from new engalnd

Here is a good photo of the buildings.

Flying W Farms Inc


Farms in Piketon Ohio
Flying W Farms Inc on EquineNow
Flying W Farms is 2000 acres in the beautiful hills of southeastern ohio. Founded in 1975 by George "Bob" Wagner and his wife Fredericka.

New England, Cool.
Did Canepa mention the buckets were in pond H20?

About the search after RN's plea it says this on her Docket:

12/02/2019
PLEA OF GUILTY -- DEFENDANT HAS ENTERED A PLEA OF GUILTY TO THE STIPULATED LESSER INCLUDED OFFENSE OF COUNT 4, TO WIT: OBSTRUCTING OFFICIAL BUSINESS, 2921.31, M-2

01/21/2021
STATE'S SUPPLEMENTAL DISCOVERY FILED

So I wonder if this SUPPLEMENTAL DISCOVERY is what they found in that search?