GUILTY OH Pike Co., 8 in Rhoden Family Murdered Over Custody Issue, 4 Members Wagner Family Arrested #63

[Betty P]

What I meant to imply was that Angela's mom or another relative maybe chris knew the guns were in a pond at fwf but not which one. On this info I'm assuming they searched ponds but came up blank
This was to put in perspective just how challenging this case was for le. Most evil murderers dont have the property options for hiding. In this vein I've always found it ridiculous the wagners claimed they put all their belongings at 41 auto cuz they didnt have room to store...like thousands of acres? They thought soooooo smart hiding it

Heres something to ponder though. As a hypothetical. George 4 may have participated but not pulled a trigger. if this is true and angela wasnt there it would mean billy and jake killed all 8. And I just cant see that. Angela may not have been there the while time but this was her evil masterpiece there is no way anyone can convince me she wasnt present for some of the killing. This ppl do not care about babysitters. The most likely person who was watching them is benedryl. Angie wasnt gonna miss this. I think your observations are great btw

WRT the idea that AW's mom knew something about weapons being put in a pond, that's plausible. The information probably wasn't specific enough to help BCI retrieve them. I recall we all watched the news coverage live here when they did the searching and they did have dive teams that were there for hours.

As for GW4 not killing anyone, I think his murder evidence train has left the station. The prosecution & ballistics report 3 guns were used during the murders. After Jake's confession, 3 murder weapons were retrieved from the FWF pond, one of them a Glock.

There were 3 shooters and the state can probably prove that. There were likely 2 teams that killed victims at 4 crime scenes. Using the evidence, blood spatter, etc. and FARO scans, the prosecution is likely going to have a video that shows which killer shot which gun at each crime scene.

https://www.faro.com/en/Resource-Library/Video/powerful-court-accepted-3d-presentations

 

[Piffcat]

WRT the idea that AW's mom knew something about weapons being put in a pond, that's plausible. The information probably wasn't specific enough to help BCI retrieve them. I recall we all watched the news coverage live here when they did the searching and they did have dive teams that were there for hours.

As for GW4 not killing anyone, I think his murder evidence train has left the station. The prosecution & ballistics report 3 guns were used during the murders. After Jake's confession, 3 murder weapons were retrieved from the FWF pond, one of them a Glock.

There were 3 shooters and the state can probably prove that. There were likely 2 teams that killed victims at 4 crime scenes. Using the evidence, blood spatter, etc. and FARO scans, the prosecution is likely going to have a video that shows which killer shot which gun at each crime scene.

https://www.faro.com/en/Resource-Library/Video/powerful-court-accepted-3d-presentations

1
George is just as guilty as all of them my comment was referring to logistics. I feel all 4 of them were needed onsite. Remember if they failed they'd most likely be dead(deservedly so). The hypothetical situation includes jake grabbing the 40 cal and using it . I certainly think its plausible jake seemed to revel in all of it. Tgey are all evil but I believe all 4 were needed no one stayed home. Doesnt mean they didnt split up before and after for efficiency.

 

[Betty P]

1
George is just as guilty as all of them my comment was referring to logistics. I feel all 4 of them were needed onsite. Remember if they failed they'd most likely be dead(deservedly so). The hypothetical situation includes jake grabbing the 40 cal and using it . I certainly think its plausible jake seemed to revel in all of it. Tgey are all evil but I believe all 4 were needed no one stayed home. Doesnt mean they didnt split up before and after for efficiency.

I'm still going with Occam's Razor on GW4. There's other evidence of him being at the crime scenes, in the rooms where people were killed. Three guns, three shooters. One gun was the same as the gun GW4 owned.

JMO, it actually takes some stretching to find a reason why GW4 is less of a killer than the rest, when he went along with the planning, etc. with such enthusiasm. He's on tape making threats against other people. He allowed his own father to threaten the life of his SO, the mother of his child by holding a gun to her head.

Just because he tried to make a show of reading the Bible in jail doesn't make him less culpable than the rest. That's one of the oldest cons around.

JMO

 

[Piffcat]

WRT the idea that AW's mom knew something about weapons being put in a pond, that's plausible. The information probably wasn't specific enough to help BCI retrieve them. I recall we all watched the news coverage live here when they did the searching and they did have dive teams that were there for hours.

As for GW4 not killing anyone, I think his murder evidence train has left the station. The prosecution & ballistics report 3 guns were used during the murders. After Jake's confession, 3 murder weapons were retrieved from the FWF pond, one of them a Glock.

There were 3 shooters and the state can probably prove that. There were likely 2 teams that killed victims at 4 crime scenes. Using the evidence, blood spatter, etc. and FARO scans, the prosecution is likely going to have a video that shows which killer shot which gun at each crime scene.

https://www.faro.com/en/Resource-Library/Video/powerful-court-accepted-3d-presentations

1
George is just as guilty as all of them my comment was referring to logistics. I feel all 4 of them were needed onsite. Remember if they failed they'd most likely be dead(deservedly so). The hypothetical situation includes jake grabbing the 40 cal and using it . I certainly think its plausible jake seemed to revel in all of it. Tgey are all evil but I believe all 4 were needed no one stayed home. Doesnt mean they didnt split up before and after for efficiency.

 

[ohioexpat63]

1
George is just as guilty as all of them my comment was referring to logistics. I feel all 4 of them were needed onsite. Remember if they failed they'd most likely be dead(deservedly so). The hypothetical situation includes jake grabbing the 40 cal and using it . I certainly think its plausible jake seemed to revel in all of it. Tgey are all evil but I believe all 4 were needed no one stayed home. Doesnt mean they didnt split up before and after for efficiency.

It seems to me they all have strong personalities. I don't believe anyone would have wanted to ride the bench. I'll be surprised if the kids were at the scenes with all 4 murderers. I'm not sure if aw pulled a trigger. My GUESS is no. She may have been on some sort of lookout with possibly two way radios.

 

[Cool Cats]

I'm still going with Occam's Razor on GW4. There's other evidence of him being at the crime scenes, in the rooms where people were killed. Three guns, three shooters. One gun was the same as the gun GW4 owned.

JMO, it actually takes some stretching to find a reason why GW4 is less of a killer than the rest, when he went along with the planning, etc. with such enthusiasm. He's on tape making threats against other people. He allowed his own father to threaten the life of his SO, the mother of his child by holding a gun to her head.

Just because he tried to make a show of reading the Bible in jail doesn't make him less culpable than the rest. That's one of the oldest cons around.
JMO

Occam’s razor "shaves off" unlikely explanations. Essentially, when faced with competing explanations for the same phenomenon, the simplest is likely the correct one.

Occam's Razor is a succinct way to put it. Occam's Razor to me means that Angie simply watched the kids.

No feeding them sleeping aids, (sleeping aids can actually make some people restless), no worry a kid will hurt themselves inside or wander outside, no worries if someone calls or stops over, no worries about hauling the kids around in crowded vehicles trying to keep them asleep with the potential of a grand shoot out with the Rhodens and gunshots everywhere.

Occam's Razor to me means that George simply took his Glock to the crime scenes and shot Gary and/or Chris and/or Kenny.

No fiddle-faddling around staying home watching Angie watch the kids, no dispute that there were 2 different sizes of shoe prints one matching the shoe Angie bought specifically for George,

no George sitting in a vehicle while he watches his dad taking his Glock away from him and going into Chris's and shooting with 2 guns, no feeling like a coward while daddy and little brother venture into the homes and he is just standing there frozen in place.

Yah, Occam's Razor is practically the handbook the Wagner's used to plan, commit and cover up their night of absolute mayhem.

 

[Cool Cats]

PS
^ ^ ... This goes with my above post ... ^ ^

Occam's Razor to me means that the Wagners did not use anyone, including both gramma's, to babysit.

No worries that the sitter will cancel for many different reasons at the last minute, no worries the sitter will try to call you but you do not have your phone, (Scheiderer said George's phone was at Peterson Rd. that night) no worries a child will get sick enough or have an accident bad enough to require an immediate trip to the ER, no worries that the sitter will post on Facebook that they are babysitting for you,

no worries that you might have to transport the sitter with your car, no worries that the sitter will tell LE everything, no hassle (like with Angie's mom) trying to get the sitter to consistently lie for you, no worries the sitter will do a Chris Graves interview letting the world know you really weren't home that night.

 

[Covert Operative]

1
George is just as guilty as all of them my comment was referring to logistics. I feel all 4 of them were needed onsite. Remember if they failed they'd most likely be dead(deservedly so). The hypothetical situation includes jake grabbing the 40 cal and using it . I certainly think its plausible jake seemed to revel in all of it. Tgey are all evil but I believe all 4 were needed no one stayed home. Doesnt mean they didnt split up before and after for efficiency.

I am glad you mentioned the hypothetical. I have thought a lot about the possibility of something like that happening or JW saying something like that may have happened, whether true or not.

Since we know JW killed five and we know which five were killed with that gun, it seems he probably did not kill anyone with the Glock or SKS, but that is not a given. That is just assuming the 5 shot with what was considered his gun were the victims he killed.

-Is it possible that one of them had a handgun and SKS, -Is it possible G4 chickened out and did not go, -Is it possible that G4 chickened out at the scene and BW used G4 gun? -Or G4 himself did shoot GR. We still do not know for sure what caliber shot KR from any information we have so far. We can narrow it down from pieces of info we have to a pretty good guess though.

We know BW had a Glock in the road rage incident that time. He may have favored that type of weapon.

****Regardless of the precise version of events, Billy Wagner was sentenced to 30 days in jail, which was suspended in lieu of one-year probation and fined $100 fine plus court costs — which totaled $223. The Glock was confiscated and subsequently destroyed. Since it was not a felony conviction or charges related to domestic violence, his right to own firearms was not hindered.Wagner Family Arraigned & Gag Order issued in Pike County Massacre | American Crime Journal |

I have screen grabbed shots of BW's feet in court to try to figure out in my mind if he could wear a 10.5 or 11 shoe but there is no way to tell. It does not seem like he could though. I think the shoes were bought alike to make it look like one person was there. They did not take into account or think LE would find out they purchased shoes or know there was a half size difference in the shoes that left the impressions.

.

 

[Piffcat]

I'm still going with Occam's Razor on GW4. There's other evidence of him being at the crime scenes, in the rooms where people were killed. Three guns, three shooters. One gun was the same as the gun GW4 owned.

JMO, it actually takes some stretching to find a reason why GW4 is less of a killer than the rest, when he went along with the planning, etc. with such enthusiasm. He's on tape making threats against other people. He allowed his own father to threaten the life of his SO, the mother of his child by holding a gun to her head.

Just because he tried to make a show of reading the Bible in jail doesn't make him less culpable than the rest. That's one of the oldest cons around.

JMO

Its rea
Lily hard to discuss that whole gw4 situation I believe he killed to. Could also be jake lying to save his bro. The another thing about gw4 hes a sharpshooter. Lots of trophy. I feel the night scope he bought hff was used to kill kenny. And he also may have provided cover fire in the crsr attack. I dont believe 3 of them could accomplish these assault and recon removal without angela. I think she played an integral role even if it was just tactical support. <modsnip - opinion stated as fact> We dont even yet kno much timeline past Jake's estimate of time started and ended. I think the 2 cars involved following dana. The 3 men could have done the killing and angela followed dana hime

 

[Covert Operative]

G4 - 08/06/2021 JOURNAL ENTRY GRANTING REQUEST FOR EXTENSION OF DEALINE FOR SUPPLEMENTAL DISCOVERY--AFTER DUE CONSIDERATION, THE COURT FINDS AND CONCLUDES THAT THE STATE OF OHIO'S MOTION FOR EXTENSION OF DEADLINE FOR SUPPLEMENTAL DISCOVERY IS WELL-TAKEN AND SUCH MOTION IS HEREBY GRANTED; HOWEVER, THE STATE OF OHIO SHOULD NOT EXPECT ANY ADDITIONAL EXTENSIONS OF THIS DEADLINE. IT IS ORDERED THAT DATE BY WHICH THE STATE OF OHIO SHALL FURNISH THE DEFENDANT WITH A COPY OF THE RECORDING OF THE PROFFER THAT THE STATE OF OHIO CONDUCTED WITH CO-DEFENDANT EDWARD JACOB WAGNER IS HEREBY EXTENDED TO AUGUST 13, 2021. THE DATE BY WHICH THE DEFENDANT SHALL FURNISH RECIPROCAL DISCOVERY TO THE STATE OF OHIO IS HEREBY EXTENDED TO OCTOBER 12, 2021. THE COURT MAY FURTHER EXTEND THE TIME FOR PROVISION OF RECIPROCAL DISCOVERY UPON TIMELY MOTION OF THE DEFENDANT AND FOR GOOD CAUSE SHOWN. FILED AND MAILED COPIES CDB

 

[IType]

PS
^ ^ ... This goes with my above post ... ^ ^

Occam's Razor to me means that the Wagners did not use anyone, including both gramma's, to babysit.

No worries that the sitter will cancel for many different reasons at the last minute, no worries the sitter will try to call you but you do not have your phone, (Scheiderer said George's phone was at Peterson Rd. that night) no worries a child will get sick enough or have an accident bad enough to require an immediate trip to the ER, no worries that the sitter will post on Facebook that they are babysitting for you,

no worries that you might have to transport the sitter with your car, no worries that the sitter will tell LE everything, no hassle (like with Angie's mom) trying to get the sitter to consistently lie for you, no worries the sitter will do a Chris Graves interview letting the world know you really weren't home that night.

I also don't think there was a sitter involved, for the very reasons you point out. But for now, at least, I'm still of the opinion that the two kids were in one of the vehicles.

My kids were both very sound sleepers by nature. If I had to give them an over-the-counter antihistamine due to allergy symptoms, they could have slept through a sonic boom. Even now, as adults, they get super drowsy with that particular medicine.

IMO, it's very possible the kids weren't necessarily given a "sleep aid" but another over-the-counter, child-safe medicine to help them sleep more soundly and they were in one of the vehicles, sleeping in their car seats. Again, JMO

P.S.: For clarification, by your term "sleep aid" are you referring to an actual sleep-regulating medication (for example melatonin) or are you referring to something that just has a side effect of causing drowsiness?

 

[IType]

I am trying to get the three guns straight in my head.

Is the 1911 a rifle?
Is the Glock the 40 caliber, and is it a handgun?
Is the SKS the 30 caliber, and is it a rifle? Is it semi-automatic?

Thanks to anyone who can help!

 

[Covert Operative]

I am trying to get the three guns straight in my head.

Is the 1911 a rifle?
Is the Glock the 40 caliber, and is it a handgun?
Is the SKS the 30 caliber, and is it a rifle? Is it semi-automatic?

Thanks to anyone who can help!

1911 is the 22 cal and is a handgun
Glock is the 40 cal and is a handgun
SKS is 30 cal and a semi automatic rifle

 

[Ann99]

Its rea
Lily hard to discuss that whole gw4 situation I believe he killed to. Could also be jake lying to save his bro. The another thing about gw4 hes a sharpshooter. Lots of trophy. I feel the night scope he bought hff was used to kill kenny. And he also may have provided cover fire in the crsr attack. I dont believe 3 of them could accomplish these assault and recon removal without angela. I think she played an integral role even if it was just tactical support. <modsnip - opinion stated as fact> We dont even yet kno much timeline past Jake's estimate of time started and ended. I think the 2 cars involved following dana. The 3 men could have done the killing and angela followed dana hime

MO.
I agree with all you say here.

MO.
I have always thought that the entire plan was because AW wanted to move to Alaska. She had to have total custody and manipulated her family to fix the problem. This may be the one time AW and FW agreed upon something.
A standard Child custody document or agreement of sharing and keeping to an agreed schedule of custody dates, would never have satisfied AW needs.
So, I believe AW was present on UHR , maybe Left Fork also and contributed in many ways to the events of 4/22.
All MO.

 

[ColMustard]

1911 is the 22 and is a handgun
Glock is the 40 cal and is a handgun
SKS is 30 caliber and a semi automatic rifle

Agreed. I would wager the Glock is also a 1911, just a larger caliber.

1911 is a model, which can be anything from .22 caliber and up.

 

[Ann99]

G4 - 08/06/2021 JOURNAL ENTRY GRANTING REQUEST FOR EXTENSION OF DEALINE FOR SUPPLEMENTAL DISCOVERY--AFTER DUE CONSIDERATION, THE COURT FINDS AND CONCLUDES THAT THE STATE OF OHIO'S MOTION FOR EXTENSION OF DEADLINE FOR SUPPLEMENTAL DISCOVERY IS WELL-TAKEN AND SUCH MOTION IS HEREBY GRANTED; HOWEVER, THE STATE OF OHIO SHOULD NOT EXPECT ANY ADDITIONAL EXTENSIONS OF THIS DEADLINE. IT IS ORDERED THAT DATE BY WHICH THE STATE OF OHIO SHALL FURNISH THE DEFENDANT WITH A COPY OF THE RECORDING OF THE PROFFER THAT THE STATE OF OHIO CONDUCTED WITH CO-DEFENDANT EDWARD JACOB WAGNER IS HEREBY EXTENDED TO AUGUST 13, 2021. THE DATE BY WHICH THE DEFENDANT SHALL FURNISH RECIPROCAL DISCOVERY TO THE STATE OF OHIO IS HEREBY EXTENDED TO OCTOBER 12, 2021. THE COURT MAY FURTHER EXTEND THE TIME FOR PROVISION OF RECIPROCAL DISCOVERY UPON TIMELY MOTION OF THE DEFENDANT AND FOR GOOD CAUSE SHOWN. FILED AND MAILED COPIES CDB

MO. If I understand correctly.
This order supports AC and put the responsibility on the individual attorneys to do what is best and what is considered rsponsible representation for their clients.
To delay or to decline to meet with AC prior to the recording being released as AC requested is now a choice the Attorneys must make and take responsibility for the repercussions for them and for their client.
An excellent chess move on the part of AC.

 

[Covert Operative]

Agreed. I would wager the Glock is also a 1911, just a larger caliber.

1911 is a model, which can be anything from .22 caliber and up.

Yes, but in the Bond hearing and in discovery they reference the 1911 as the 22 for purposes in this case.

 

[Covert Operative]

MO. If I understand correctly.
This order supports AC and put the responsibility on the individual attorneys to do what is best and what is considered rsponsible representation for their clients.
To delay or to decline to meet with AC prior to the recording being released as AC requested is now a choice the Attorneys must make and take responsibility for the repercussions for them and for their client.
An excellent chess move on the part of AC.

It gives them to the 13th to turn over the proffer whether they have been able to meet with all the attorneys or not is how I understand it. For instance, if one still cannot meet due to their schedule that is for them and the state to deal with but they cannot delay/withhold any longer turning it over to the others.

 

[Ann99]

It gives them to the 13th to turn over the proffer whether they have been able to meet with all the attorneys or not is how I understand it. For instance, if one still cannot met due to their schedule that is for them and the state to deal with but they cannot delay any longer turning it over to the others.

I agree. I am thinking this puts the responsibility to meet with The State/AC, on the Attorneys. . In other words, the Attorneys must make time to meet with AC, regardless of their schedules, vacations, other matters.
If moving forward absent a meeting, a choice by an Attorney, because of the Order, the responsibility for a the outcome for the client lies on the Attorney, not AC or the State.
This Order protects the record, makes responsibility clear.

 

[Cool Cats]

I also don't think there was a sitter involved, for the very reasons you point out. But for now, at least, I'm still of the opinion that the two kids were in one of the vehicles.

My kids were both very sound sleepers by nature. If I had to give them an over-the-counter antihistamine due to allergy symptoms, they could have slept through a sonic boom. Even now, as adults, they get super drowsy with that particular medicine.

IMO, it's very possible the kids weren't necessarily given a "sleep aid" but another over-the-counter, child-safe medicine to help them sleep more soundly and they were in one of the vehicles, sleeping in their car seats. Again, JMO

P.S.: For clarification, by your term "sleep aid" are you referring to an actual sleep-regulating medication (for example melatonin) or are you referring to something that just has a side effect of causing drowsiness?

As to sleep aid I don't know I never did that to my kids. Benadryl (antihistamine) never made my kids tired at all.

There was not enough room for 6 people to go. A truck that has 2 up front and the truck bed in back to throw in all the cameras and then a car with 2 kids cramed in back with 2 in the front, not realistic at all. Both of those kids were old enough to wake up and tell everyone they were in the car.

No, Jake made sure he had his child that week and he isn't going to haul her back there. There is more chance of sun bathing at the South Pole than George and Jake
dragging their children off to accompany them on 8 murders.

Angie would have to stay in the car with them, might as well be at home with them. 3 guns, they didn't need her. Angie and 2 kids would be an interference not a help. No help at all...point of view.

And suppressors only muffle sound not cancel it, blasting on the front porch is risky with kids in your car.

One reason the Wagners did custody was in case the Rhodens fought back and shot them, according to Canepa they knew what the Rhodens were capable of and thus made custody clear.

"They might shoot at us"
"So what! take the kids anyway" I don't think so.