GUILTY OH Pike Co., 8 in Rhoden Family Murdered Over Custody Issue, 4 Members Wagner Family Arrested #64

[Cool Cats]

Curious if there will be a hearing before 09/13/2021, if sanctions will be allowed and if so will they be against AC or Junk ?

Sanctions would be in general not directed at individuals.

I don't know about sanctions and do not think I need to research them because I do not believe there will be any sanctions on the prosecution.

In fact, Nash already did a previous motion asking for sanctions and nothing ever came of it.

 

[LMDlong]

Sanctions would be in general not directed at individuals.

I don't know about sanctions and do not think I need to research them because I do not believe there will be any sanctions on the prosecution.

In fact, Nash already did a previous motion asking for sanctions and nothing ever came of it.

Thank you

 

[Cool Cats]

Kelly Cinereski is a pastor at Resurrection Bay Baptist Church in Seward AK. He is the Wagner's pastor from Ohio.

His son is Caleb Cinereski and he was the Wagner's pastor at a church the Wagner's attended in Kenai AK. EW said she met Jake at church. Shiver

In 2017, Kelly Cinereski said the family attended Sunday service at his son’s church in Kenai. After speaking Monday with the Daily News, his church’s Facebook account posted a message:

“Good evening church, this is pastor Kelly,” the post reads. “I just wanted you all to know that I am aware of the current situation involving the Wagner family. The lead investigator in southern Ohio does not have any evidence that the Wagners are guilty in this case.”

Without identifying the investigator, the post said he “has my phone number and I have his.”

“I talked with the Wagner family today and they have assured me that this is just an accusation. So we will just leave it at that,” the post said. “Please Pray God’s will be done.”

I think it is interesting that now we know who the lead investigator is, of whom the pastor is talking about. Agent Ryan Scheiderer.

Pastor Kelly Cinereski before and after arrests:

“They’re just good country people.” "Salt of the earth."

“just a down-to-Earth, good wholesome family."

“I think their son went through a lot of hurt over the whole deal,” he said. “I think they’re trying to move on.”

Pastor Kelly Cinereski told the Dayton Daily News he was shocked to hear news of the Wagner family's arrests.

'These people wept over dogs, I can't imagine them taking people's lives,' he said.

Pastor Caleb Cinereski before arrests:

'They are not charged, not accused and not persons of interest and I don't understand why the police have done this to them.

'I have been to their home and prayed with them. This is an extremely upset family.

'But they are welcome members of the church and we haven't mentioned their situation during services.'

Wagner family charged in Ohio massacre fled to Alaska after killings | Daily Mail Online

Pictured, people in laser focus of multiple murder hunt | Daily Mail Online

 

[Covert Operative]

Curious if there will be a hearing before 09/13/2021, if sanctions will be allowed and if so will they be against AC or Junk ?

I believe each side knows how far they can push and they will do that in court. Deering may sanction this time with something as small as a reprimand in his chambers for not adhering to his court order or it could be something more, I doubt it would be something significant this time.

I think the defense is letting them know that they will file on them each time they miss something. State can do the same if the defense does not turn over their discovery when the judge orders it. Right now that order is 60 days after they receive the states.

There are several types of sanctions that can be imposed. Since they filed a response for missing the deadline even though it was late that is better for them.

It's easier to ask for forgiveness than to ask for permission.

 

[IType]

I believe each side knows how far they can push and they will do that in court. Deering may sanction this time with something as small as a reprimand in his chambers for not adhering to his court order or it could be something more, I doubt it would be something significant this time.

I think the defense is letting them know that they will file on them each time they miss something. State can do the same if the defense does not turn over their discovery when the judge orders it. Right now that order is 60 days after they receive the states.

There are several types of sanctions that can be imposed. Since they filed a response for missing the deadline even though it was late that is better for them.

It's easier to ask for forgiveness than to ask for permission.

BBM, I agree. I think GW4's team is trying to pick apart everything the prosecution does/does not do in an effort to discredit them before they ever get to trial. If they can make the prosecutors look bad ahead of time, then that could affect the opinions of potential jury pool members before they ever see the evidence. JMO

I also feel pretty strongly that someone is pushing GW4's attorneys really hard to do whatever it takes to get GW4 out, ethical or not. Just my opinion.

 

[Legacy Les]

Jake's testimony will take care of any questions the jury may have about evidence. I suspect at least one more Wagner family member will agree to a plea bargain before GW4's trial, which will make things that much more difficult for the defense.

It's such a unique situation - the killers aren't just a family, they're a father and mother and their two children.

Exactly and not one of them said pump the brakes? Its so hard to believe that its some family who did this that for the most part was normalish. Not some killer or hired gun or something other than what it was. Just crazyness.

 

[Legacy Les]

Yes I have, and I believe that he is responsible for the missing women in that area, JMO

Hmmmm IDK, I don't really think he was personally involved . But i think he knows more than anyone else in the area.

is there a forum for the pod cast the Piketon massacre I just had some comments , Like Judge Marshall stepped down before investigation. I was told because it could lead to them having to re open all the cases he was involved with. IDK if that is even how it works but someone told me that.

 

[Cool Cats]

Exactly and not one of them said pump the brakes? Its so hard to believe that its some family who did this that for the most part was normalish. Not some killer or hired gun or something other than what it was. Just crazyness.

I think it's underestimated how much of a green light Angie gave to these homicides.

This really bothers me - that Angie was spying on Hanna and George's EX mother-in-law through Facebook messenger and she brought to Jake's attention the messages where Hanna and George's EX MIL were talking about not signing any custody papers "they would have to kill me first."
It's like a catalyst because as Canepa pointed out they killed her 4 months after this statement.

This statement that Angie deliberately screen shot for Jake. To me this shows Angie egging him on to do something at all cost for custody, thus instigating the murder plot.

Had Angie taken the other road like a normal mother and tried to help work it all out, Jake would not have shot 5 people.

Angie held all the cards, all she needed to do was say no to murder and put her cards back in the deck. Instead she held them close to her chest, gambling that they would come up all aces for murder.

She's an extremely controlling mother who kept him isolated with home schooling, encouraged him to always live with her even when having his own child, shared bank accounts with him meaning he was supporting her financially, voting on his personal matters, and so forth.

She's so controlling that she actually got Jake on a 3-way phone call from jail! One jail to another!

Thus, she was the linchpin in his life the most important person with the most influence. I actually think she manipulated him, after all, if your mom says it's OK then it must be OK..right? Mother really is the one who "knows best."

Also, notice how she made her 2 forbidden phone calls starting on the day Jake pled guilty. Still couldn't resist trying to find out something relating to him it seems.

...2 Cents...

Information comes from Other Acts Evidence and Scheiderer's testimony at George's Bond Hearing.

 

[Cool Cats]

What made Jake confess?

Overwhelming evidence made him confess because this evidence was going to get him convicted and then the DP.

What evidence came out before his confession to help pave the way for his guilty plea?

Transcripts of George's Bond Hearing

09/21/2020
The Court ordered that the Prosecution provide a transcript of George's Bond Hearing.

So Jake learned how his Case would play out in front of 12 jurors and how Special Agent Scheiderer and a tenacious prosecutor would meticulously lay it all out for them.

Transcripts of Wagner Recordings

03/09/2021 (MOTION #55.1)
DEFENDANT'S SUPPLEMENTAL MEMORANDUM IN SUPPORT OF HIS MOTION TO COMPEL THE PRODUCTION OF TRANSCRIPTS OF AUDIO RECORDINGS.

Jake got to read all the transcripts of the audio recordings of himself and his family. Direct words coming out of his and his family's mouths that cannot be explained away along with George's incriminating statements refered to in the Bond Hearing.

Other Acts Evidence

03/08/2021 (MOTION #54.1)
DEFENDANT'S SUPPLELMENTAL MEMORANDUM IN SUPPORT OF HIS MOTION TO COMPEL THE PRODUCTION OF "OTHER ACTS" EVIDENCE.

Then the Other Acts Evidence is presented and gives a searing and compelling motivation for the crimes and also reveals the devastating testimony that 2 witnesses who lived with them can present before the jury.

Note that the recordings of the Wagners and the Other Acts Evidence are from March and this is most likely when Jake started thinking differently about his situation, to stop lying.

Add all 3 together and this, to me, is why Jake confessed.

https://www.pikecountycpcourt.org

• 2018CR000154 STATE OF OHIO -vs- WAGNER, EDWARD JACOB
• Docket Information
• 08/31/2020 WAGNER, IV, GEORGE HEARING FOR BOND MODIFICATION

 

[Johnny B Bad]

Do you Sleuthers ever notice that George Wagner iv will not look towards the Rhodens family even when he is coming in to the courtroom, or standing up to leave, Angela Wagner keeps her hair over he eye facing the Rhodens family the whole time she in trial, how in the world will these two ever admit at trial that their guilty?
To me that show murder

 

[Cool Cats]

Do you Sleuthers ever notice that George Wagner iv will not look towards the Rhodens family even when he is coming in to the courtroom, or standing up to leave, Angela Wagner keeps her hair over he eye facing the Rhodens family the whole time she in trial, how in the world will these two ever admit at trial that their guilty?
To me that show murder

Good call.

I remember George didn't even look back at FW & RW which seemed odd, Billy nods at them and looks at them all the time. You are right I bet, that he avoids the families.

I noticed Angie's hair also. When her hair is loose she puts it behind her left ear and hides the right side of her face. Here are some good examples:

Pike County judge moves motions hearing to September in Angela Wagner's capital murder case

Angela Wagner denied bond as she pleads not guilty to Rhoden murder charges

Second pretrial held for 1 of 4 Pike Co. murder suspects - Times Gazette

 

[IType]

Exactly and not one of them said pump the brakes? Its so hard to believe that its some family who did this that for the most part was normalish. Not some killer or hired gun or something other than what it was. Just crazyness.

IMO, it was their overblown sense of entitlement and never being punished for any of their minor crimes that kept them from putting on the brakes. Again, JMO.

 

[Cool Cats]

IMO, it was their overblown sense of entitlement and never being punished for any of their minor crimes that kept them from putting on the brakes. Again, JMO.

Alot of it also was about custody.

They got away with stealing custody away from George's EX wife TC. They did terrible things to her to get custody of her son. They had plots to keep her away if she tried to get more visitation. For some reason they did not want her to even have visitation.

When TC requested more visitation in October 2018, George demanded a full psych evaluation on her. Next month he's in jail on 8 aggravated murder charges, who needs a psych evaluation now?

They were successful in their machinations and suffered no consequences
what-so-ever for their appalling behaviors. Thus, they felt entitled and went to the most extreme ends to wrest custody away from Hanna.

By this time they acted like it was their right, as if they were getting the child out of a third world country war zone from an abusive home.

Full of delusion and hyped up on Boondock Saints and self righteous mumbo jumbo, they changed reality to fit their own narrative to get what Angie and Jake wanted.

A child only loyal to them and only bonded to them. No other competition for the child's love and attention.

Types of Delusions & Common Delusional Themes

• Perception:
This type of delusion is about the person who’s affected rather than about the outside world. It's what the person believes is real and they put an unreal amount of importance on it.

This intense focus goes beyond what makes sense rationally or emotionally and can feel urgent and personal.

Like DeWine said, obsession over custody and control of children.

 

[Legacy Les]

IMO, it was their overblown sense of entitlement and never being punished for any of their minor crimes that kept them from putting on the brakes. Again, JMO.

What minor infractions are we speaking about?> They no punishment from courts or are you meaning like at home punishments. /? SPARE the ROD spoil the CHILD stuff?

 

[Cool Cats]

What minor infractions are we speaking about?> They no punishment from courts or are you meaning like at home punishments. /? SPARE the ROD spoil the CHILD stuff?

Growing up I bet the only strict thing the parents did towards their "boys" was to isolate them. Homeschool, don't celebrate some Holidays, social life through church such as playing with the Pastor's kids etc... Opinion.

I believe these infractions are what is meant, although not exactly minor. Most of these involve the entire family.

1.) Multiple instances of arson of various properties of their own for financial gain.
2.) Multiple instances of theft - gas, tractor trailers, shoplifting.
3.) Drug running drug trafficking.
4.) Trying to obtain a mortgage by committing fraud.
5.) Having others commit crimes to cover up their crimes - perjury obstruction of justice.
6.) Telling witnesses not to speak to investigators, to not appear for subpoenas.
7.) Despite non-disclosure orders, planning their responses/testimony to public officials, to GJ and at trial.
8.) Threatening BCI and government officials.

When Angie and Billy were arrested for tampering with evidence the charges were dropped for lack of speedy trial. They were only banned from a store.

Also when Billy was charged for brandishing a gun and for receiving stolen property he got probation, basically a slap on the wrist.

From Other Acts Evidence and Court View, Pike County Common Pleas Court.

 

[IType]

What minor infractions are we speaking about?> They no punishment from courts or are you meaning like at home punishments. /? SPARE the ROD spoil the CHILD stuff?

My apologies, I should have explained myself better. My comment was more directed toward AW and BW.

They both got out of the charges related to the "road rage" incident where BW flashed a gun at another car while driving, not sure what county it was in (link below). AW and BW both had charges of tampering with evidence dropped several years ago in Pike County (link below). AW reportedly has stolen merchandise and resold it, something about boots at a flea market if I recall correctly. BW had charges of possession of stolen property (link below). Every single time, they got away with the crimes and were never punished for any of them. There could be more that I'm not aware of.

In the other acts evidence (I think there may be a link in the media and timeline thread, or you can check for links on thread 60, somewhere around page 10 according to my notes), there were allegations of arson on their own properties for personal gain and BW transporting drugs and engaged in drug trafficking. It doesn't appear that AW and BW were charged for these crimes.

Because BW and AW never were punished for any of these things, thus IMO they felt they were above the law and could do as they darned well pleased. Also IMO, their sense of entitlement then spilled over into their sons, who also felt they were above the law. All JMO.

Link to road rage incident
Father charged in Pike County murders had past brushes with law

Link to Pike County Court website
https://pikecountycpcourt.org/eservices/home.page.2

link about possession of stolen property
Rhoden family massacre: Father accused in case faced prior felonies

 

[Cool Cats]

My apologies, I should have explained myself better. My comment was more directed toward AW and BW.

They both got out of the charges related to the "road rage" incident where BW flashed a gun at another car while driving, not sure what county it was in (link below). AW and BW both had charges of tampering with evidence dropped several years ago in Pike County (link below). AW reportedly has stolen merchandise and resold it, something about boots at a flea market if I recall correctly. BW had charges of possession of stolen property (link below). Every single time, they got away with the crimes and were never punished for any of them. There could be more that I'm not aware of.

In the other acts evidence (I think there may be a link in the media and timeline thread, or you can check for links on thread 60, somewhere around page 10 according to my notes), there were allegations of arson on their own properties for personal gain and BW transporting drugs and engaged in drug trafficking. It doesn't appear that AW and BW were charged for these crimes.

Because BW and AW never were punished for any of these things, thus IMO they felt they were above the law and could do as they darned well pleased. Also IMO, their sense of entitlement then spilled over into their sons, who also felt they were above the law. All JMO.

Link to road rage incident
Father charged in Pike County murders had past brushes with law

Link to Pike County Court website
https://pikecountycpcourt.org/eservices/home.page.2

link about possession of stolen property
Rhoden family massacre: Father accused in case faced prior felonies

And when Billy was arrested for receiving stolen property (in your linked article)
he asked the officer if he could just "pay a fine."

To me this statement speaks volumes. Wealthy family $ probably got Billy good attorneys and out from under his crimes. Wouldn't be surprised if witnesses to his crimes were paid off, he is accused of witness tampering. Same for the other 3, $ probably helped them avoid consequences.

Well they went too far now. $ can't help them. I doubt after Jake's confession that FW would want to help $ wise. (Commissary, phone call charges, clothes for court, medical etc...)

 

[Legacy Les]

Growing up I bet the only strict thing the parents did towards their "boys" was to isolate them. Homeschool, don't celebrate some Holidays, social life through church such as playing with the Pastor's kids etc... Opinion.

I believe these infractions are what is meant, although not exactly minor. Most of these involve the entire family.

1.) Multiple instances of arson of various properties of their own for financial gain.
2.) Multiple instances of theft - gas, tractor trailers, shoplifting.
3.) Drug running drug trafficking.
4.) Trying to obtain a mortgage by committing fraud.
5.) Having others commit crimes to cover up their crimes - perjury obstruction of justice.
6.) Telling witnesses not to speak to investigators, to not appear for subpoenas.
7.) Despite non-disclosure orders, planning their responses/testimony to public officials, to GJ and at trial.
8.) Threatening BCI and government officials.

When Angie and Billy were arrested for tampering with evidence the charges were dropped for lack of speedy trial. They were only banned from a store.

Also when Billy was charged for brandishing a gun and for receiving stolen property he got probation, basically a slap on the wrist.

From Other Acts Evidence and Court View, Pike County Common Pleas Court.[/QU


First offenses should be nothing but a slap on the wrist. especially if none violent.
but i thought they were talking about things before this case with like Jake. Trying to see where this entitlement you talk of comes from.

 

[Cool Cats]

Legacy Les

Your Reply to my Post:

"First offenses should be nothing but a slap on the wrist. especially if none violent.
but i thought they were talking about things before this case with like Jake. Trying to see where this entitlement you talk of comes from."

Ha! No slap on the wrist now.

These Other Acts spell out what Jake did before this Case.

He sounds extremely entitled to me, but that's just how I see his abhorrent
behavior. Entitled like the Boondock Saints characters he apparently idolized.

 

[ohioexpat63]

When your arrogance reaches a point to plot and carry out the murder of 8 people, then his sense of entitlement is blatantly obvious.

His sense of entitlement in his belief he should be the sole parent, is not only out of touch but his ensuing action is DP worthy!