GUILTY OH Pike Co., 8 in Rhoden Family Murdered Over Custody Issue, 4 Members Wagner Family Arrested #64

[Covert Operative]

A week or maybe two ago, I stated in a post that I wouldn't be surprised if FW's charges are refiled before the statute of limitations runs out, thinking maybe JW gave some info to the prosecution about the bulletproof vest purchase. I think its possible the vests found in BW's room at FWF were purchased before the murders through an online account in FW's name without her knowledge.

I know there is a receipt showing BPV's purchased after the date of the murders. Were there possibly two sets of vests purchased--one set by the W4 without FW knowledge and one set purchased by FW after the murders? Maybe I'm missing something...

But, if she isn't guilty of lying to the grand jury about the purchase of the BPV found in BW's room at her farm, why did she do a search about penalties for lying to a grand jury the night before she testified?

"The court filing also reveals that Billy Wagner’s mother, Fredericka, who had been previously charged with perjury, searched for penalties related to lying to the grand jury the night before she testified in 2018. Those charges were dismissed but prosecutors have said they may refile at a later date.

Fredericka had offered grand jury testimony that she purchased bullet-resistant vests on the internet after the Rhoden murders because she wanted to protect her son. Prosecutors had claimed the vests were used in the homicides. However, Wagner’s attorney revealed the vests were purchased on eBay after the homicides.
AG withdraws from Rhoden case, new details about Wagner-Rhoden relationship revealed

All of the documentation looked legitimate to me for the purchase of the vests in question . There were pages and pages of it filed by her attorney. It seems to be information that could easily be proven or disproven by the state if they need to refile charges. There were invoices, contact names associated with emails etc.

I had thought maybe there was a set of vests in the room BW had stayed in that he already had. Those vests came up missing and she realized it. She then ordered vests to replace those vests in case other people had known they had been there also. She or someone that helped her order vests did not think far enough in advance about the vests at her house coming into question since they were brand new. Just a thought.

 

[IType]

All of the documentation looked legitimate to me for the purchase of the vests in question . There were pages and pages of it filed by her attorney. It seems to be information that could easily be proven or disproven by the state if they need to refile charges. There were invoices, contact names associated with emails etc.

I had thought maybe there was a set of vests in the room BW had stayed in that he already had. Those vests came up missing and she realized it. She then ordered vests to replace those vests in case other people had known they had been there also. She or someone that helped her order vests did not think far enough in advance about the vests at her house coming into question since they were brand new. Just a thought.

Interesting theory!!

 

[LMDlong]

Not sure what you mean they are all listed in the civil suit. Tony is the administrator of the estates for CRsr,CRjr, HR,FR.
DR,GR,KR, HG are also listed in the civil suit but not as Tony being the administrator. Their administrators are listed as John Doe or Jane Doe.

Hey thanks, I had been reading on courtview and apart of the wording got me confused .

 

[LMDlong]

Not sure what you mean they are all listed in the civil suit. Tony is the administrator of the estates for CRsr,CRjr, HR,FR.
DR,GR,KR, HG are also listed in the civil suit but not as Tony being the administrator. Their administrators are listed as John Doe or Jane Doe.

Hey thanks, I had been reading on courtview and apart of the wording got me confused .

Hannah Gilley's family is the administrator for her estate.
Gary's family is the administrator for his estate.
Dana's parents are the administrators for her estate.
Kenneth's daughter is the administrator for his estate.

Tony Rhoden is the administrator for the estates of Chris Sr., Chris Jr., Frankie and Hanna.

This is why it is written this way in the civil suit.

Hey thanks I got confused on some wording.

 

[LMDlong]

A week or maybe two ago, I stated in a post that I wouldn't be surprised if FW's charges are refiled before the statute of limitations runs out, thinking maybe JW gave some info to the prosecution about the bulletproof vest purchase. I think its possible the vests found in BW's room at FWF were purchased before the murders through an online account in FW's name without her knowledge.

I know there is a receipt showing BPV's purchased after the date of the murders. Were there possibly two sets of vests purchased--one set by the W4 without FW knowledge and one set purchased by FW after the murders? Maybe I'm missing something...

But, if she isn't guilty of lying to the grand jury about the purchase of the BPV found in BW's room at her farm, why did she do a search about penalties for lying to a grand jury the night before she testified?

"The court filing also reveals that Billy Wagner’s mother, Fredericka, who had been previously charged with perjury, searched for penalties related to lying to the grand jury the night before she testified in 2018. Those charges were dismissed but prosecutors have said they may refile at a later date.

Fredericka had offered grand jury testimony that she purchased bullet-resistant vests on the internet after the Rhoden murders because she wanted to protect her son. Prosecutors had claimed the vests were used in the homicides. However, Wagner’s attorney revealed the vests were purchased on eBay after the homicides.
AG withdraws from Rhoden case, new details about Wagner-Rhoden relationship revealed

At one time I thought it was mentioned there was two sets of vests. That two vests were missing. Then I never seen any mention of it , just assumed it rumor.

 

[LMDlong]

I am waiting to see if there is an evidentiary hearing and someone from the state has to get on the stand. If the proffer gets turned over then it probably will not happen. It would be good though, might give us some tidbits.

I like and agree. I’m waiting or wishful hoping another Wagner caves and George’s attorneys gives up.

 

[Covert Operative]

A week or maybe two ago, I stated in a post that I wouldn't be surprised if FW's charges are refiled before the statute of limitations runs out, thinking maybe JW gave some info to the prosecution about the bulletproof vest purchase. I think its possible the vests found in BW's room at FWF were purchased before the murders through an online account in FW's name without her knowledge.

I know there is a receipt showing BPV's purchased after the date of the murders. Were there possibly two sets of vests purchased--one set by the W4 without FW knowledge and one set purchased by FW after the murders? Maybe I'm missing something...

But, if she isn't guilty of lying to the grand jury about the purchase of the BPV found in BW's room at her farm, why did she do a search about penalties for lying to a grand jury the night before she testified?

"The court filing also reveals that Billy Wagner’s mother, Fredericka, who had been previously charged with perjury, searched for penalties related to lying to the grand jury the night before she testified in 2018. Those charges were dismissed but prosecutors have said they may refile at a later date.

Fredericka had offered grand jury testimony that she purchased bullet-resistant vests on the internet after the Rhoden murders because she wanted to protect her son. Prosecutors had claimed the vests were used in the homicides. However, Wagner’s attorney revealed the vests were purchased on eBay after the homicides.
AG withdraws from Rhoden case, new details about Wagner-Rhoden relationship revealed

All of the documentation looked legitimate to me for the purchase of the vests in question . There were pages and pages of it filed by her attorney. It seems to be information that could easily be proven or disproven by the state if they need to refile charges. There were invoices, contact names associated with emails etc.

I had thought maybe there was a set of vests in the room BW had stayed in that he already had. Those vests came up missing and she realized it. She then ordered vests to replace those vests in case other people had known they had been there also. She or someone that helped her order vests did not think far enough in advance about the vests at her house coming into question since they were brand new. Just a thought.

At one time I thought it was mentioned there was two sets of vests. That two vests were missing. Then I never seen any mention of it , just assumed it rumor.

I had never seen that rumor. She did buy two vests but that is all I know about two of anything.

 

[Covert Operative]

I like and agree. I’m waiting or wishful hoping another Wagner caves and George’s attorneys gives up.

I am not sure why the state does not go ahead with trials for the 3 of them. May be waiting for them to plea but that could go on for a long time and also cost a lot of money. They have the evidence so take it to trial. If they won't take a plea of
LWOP then they can let the jury give it to them.

 

[Covert Operative]

This got put on the calendar pretty quickly and suddenly. My imagination may be over doing it.
AW -
09/08/2021 """"""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""" Judge: DEERING, RANDY D Event: MOTION HEARING Date: 09/10/2021 Time: 02:00 PM

 

[Ann99]

On the vests. MO
I seem to remember that there was a dispute or a discrepancy with one vest as far as the manufacture date. Or the manufacture date had been tampered with. Or highly suspected to have been altered, tampered to change the date of manufacture.
Does anyone else remember this?
It could be that FW did purchase 2 new vests, to replace 2 others that had been used in the murders, and the paperwork for those newly purchased vests was all ok.
So, was a murder vest accidentally saved? Or was a newly purchased vest legit., but some Wagner genius thought it would be better to make it look even more like a recent purchase. Remember FE made a strong statement about needing protection for her family from ISIS or some big Drug Lord, or whatever she was claiming as a fear or threat.
The problem was a vest with a possible tamper of the manufacture date. MO
I could be imagining this. Anyone?

Remembering more... plates inside the vest? The plates could be removed or replaced/changed and something didn't match up?

 

[Covert Operative]

On the vests. MO
I seem to remember that there was a dispute or a discrepancy with one vest as far as the manufacture date. Or the manufacture date had been tampered with. Or highly suspected to have been altered, tampered to change the date of manufacture.
Does anyone else remember this?
It could be that FW did purchase 2 new vests, to replace 2 others that had been used in the murders, and the paperwork for those newly purchased vests was all ok.
So, was a murder vest accidentally saved? Or was a newly purchased vest legit., but some Wagner genius thought it would be better to make it look even more like a recent purchase. Remember FE made a strong statement about needing protection for her family from ISIS or some big Drug Lord, or whatever she was claiming as a fear or threat.
The problem was a vest with a possible tamper of the manufacture date. MO
I could be imagining this. Anyone?

I do not remember anything about a tamper date on the vests. I think one vest had a manufacture date of 2012 and one did not have a manufacture date but the ceramic plates in them had a manufacture date after April 2016.

Neither of those two vests in question were connected to the murders according to BCI. Tests did not link the vests to the murders.

-Owen wrote that he photographed the vests at BCI headquarters in February. He wrote that he asked the lead BCI agent on the case whether he believed the vests were used in the homicides and responded “yes.” However, Owen said the agent revealed that testing did not connect the vests to the homicides.

Wagner family matriarch asks judge to dismissed perjury, obstruction charges | WKRC (local12.com)

 

[Ann99]

I do not remember anything about a tamper date on the vests. I think one vest had a manufacture date of 2012 and one did not have a manufacture date but the ceramic plates in them had a manufacture date after April 2016.

Neither of those two vests in question were connected to the murders according to BCI. Tests did not link the vests to the murders.

-Owen wrote that he photographed the vests at BCI headquarters in February. He wrote that he asked the lead BCI agent on the case whether he believed the vests were used in the homicides and responded “yes.” However, Owen said the agent revealed that testing did not connect the vests to the homicides.

Wagner family matriarch asks judge to dismissed perjury, obstruction charges | WKRC (local12.com)

I'm suspicious of the wording "testing did not connect the vests to the homicides"

I think something else or someone else made the connection. Just my opinion.

 

[Covert Operative]

I'm suspicious of the wording "testing did not connect the vests to the homicides"

I think something else or someone else made the connection. Just my opinion.

If there is a connection to those vests they must not have been able to prove it at that time. I would guess testing meant DNA, checking for blood, fibers, or anything that coud be on them from the crime scenes.

It probably would make one think they were used during the murders when they saw them in her house. Everyone does not have BPV's just laying around. Some vests may have been used but not those is my thought.

 

[Betty P]

I am waiting to see if there is an evidentiary hearing and someone from the state has to get on the stand. If the proffer gets turned over then it probably will not happen. It would be good though, might give us some tidbits.

I see it the opposite way. JMO, any effort to undermine or discount Jake's confession means there's no justice for the victims. It means Ohio taxpayers continue to spend millions of dollars for each of these 4 sub humans to go through long jury trials, appeals, etc.

It may be an unpopular opinion, but I don't think any of the 4 Wagners should ever see the outside of a prison cell for the rest of their lives.

Seems a terrible sacrifice for the public and the victims just so the podcasters and other gadfly folks can keep their programs going a little longer.

JMO YMMV

 

[Betty P]

All of the documentation looked legitimate to me for the purchase of the vests in question . There were pages and pages of it filed by her attorney. It seems to be information that could easily be proven or disproven by the state if they need to refile charges. There were invoices, contact names associated with emails etc.

I had thought maybe there was a set of vests in the room BW had stayed in that he already had. Those vests came up missing and she realized it. She then ordered vests to replace those vests in case other people had known they had been there also. She or someone that helped her order vests did not think far enough in advance about the vests at her house coming into question since they were brand new. Just a thought.

Agree, I don't think FW thought LE would ever search her farm and home, nor her computer and online purchases. I think all of that activity came as a big surprise to her. Her word and her demands had never before been questioned by Pike County LE or courts. She was a "Boss Hogg".

 

[Covert Operative]

I see it the opposite way. JMO, any effort to undermine or discount Jake's confession means there's no justice for the victims. It means Ohio taxpayers continue to spend millions of dollars for each of these 4 sub humans to go through long jury trials, appeals, etc.

It may be an unpopular opinion, but I don't think any of the 4 Wagners should ever see the outside of a prison cell for the rest of their lives.

Seems a terrible sacrifice for the public and the victims just so the podcasters and other gadfly folks can keep their programs going a little longer.

JMO YMMV

I am not sure what you see the opposite and what that has to do with the evidentiary hearing motion the defense filed. Not sure how that has anything to do with underminig his confession. It has to do with the state and not turning over the proffer.

Not sure why you feel it is unpopular that they should not get out of prison, from what I have seen that is what people think.

 

[Betty P]

I am not sure what you see the opposite and what that has to do with the evidentiary hearing motion the defense filed. Not sure how that has anything to do with underminig his confession. It has to do with the state and not turning over the proffer.

Not sure why you feel it is unpopular that they should not get out of prison, from what I have seen that is what people think.

I think when people question the proffer or promote ways to interfere with the process in order to get information that the court is currently withholding, perhaps they don't fully realize the consequences. Hoping there's a hearing that will undermine the proffer doesn't instill public confidence in the state's evidence.

For the last couple of years, a lot of folks have routinely questioned the state's evidence in these cases. When the state finally gets a confession and is led to key evidence, including weapons, some people still keep questioning the evidence, still keep seeking ways to bring it out in public because they think the evidence is weak.

I don't understand that.

ETA: Apologies in advance if I'm misunderstanding intent of trying to get details of the proffer via an evidentiary hearing.

IIRC the defense has seen the proffer.

Jake confessed.

 

[Covert Operative]

I think when people question the proffer or promote ways to interfere with the process in order to get information that the court is currently withholding, perhaps they don't fully realize the consequences. Hoping there's a hearing that will undermine the proffer doesn't instill public confidence in the state's evidence.

For the last couple of years, a lot of folks have routinely questioned the state's evidence in these cases. When the state finally gets a confession and is led to key evidence, including weapons, some people still keep questioning the evidence, still keep seeking ways to bring it out in public because they think the evidence is weak.

I don't understand that.

Not sure why you think an evidentary hearing of why the state did not meet the dealine of turning over the proffer woud be undermining the proffer. The judge ordered a date for them to do so and they did not and defense is asking for a hearing as to why they did not.


I believe I am speaking of something different in a legal sense than you are, although you may think we are speaking about the same thing.

 

[Covert Operative]

I think when people question the proffer or promote ways to interfere with the process in order to get information that the court is currently withholding, perhaps they don't fully realize the consequences. Hoping there's a hearing that will undermine the proffer doesn't instill public confidence in the state's evidence.

For the last couple of years, a lot of folks have routinely questioned the state's evidence in these cases. When the state finally gets a confession and is led to key evidence, including weapons, some people still keep questioning the evidence, still keep seeking ways to bring it out in public because they think the evidence is weak.

I don't understand that.

ETA: Apologies in advance if I'm misunderstanding intent of trying to get details of the proffer via an evidentiary hearing.

IIRC the defense has seen the proffer.

Jake confessed.

The defense has not see the proffer as of the lastest filings in August. That is what they continued to go back and forth on.
It could have been turned over by now I have no idea.

Yes, the evidentieary hearing is different than getting details of the proffer.

 

[altojack]

This got put on the calendar pretty quickly and suddenly. My imagination may be over doing it.
AW -
09/08/2021 """"""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""" Judge: DEERING, RANDY D Event: MOTION HEARING Date: 09/10/2021 Time: 02:00 PM

I read this three times! Took of my glasses, gave them a clean and read it again. Just had to make sure.