GUILTY OH Pike Co., 8 in Rhoden Family Murdered Over Custody Issue, 4 Members Wagner Family Arrested #64

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  • #221
Has the prosecution let the public see a full disclosure of what was in the buckets, I would say not that would tamper with getting a good jury pool, IMO
I think we will see a whole lot more evidence as soon as the trials begin.

No they have not, but they listed the guns and knife so it seems they probably would have listed any other items in the buckets. Perhaps not. When it says Item 1 - Bucket 2, it sounds like one item.

When Junk mentions the weapons and vehicle in his motion it sounds like that is what they recovered.

I would not see listing those items would be any different than listing the guns or it would tamper with a jury pool any more so. I will be interested to see if there were more items in those buckets.
 
  • #222
Those charges can be changed or some dropped if the state sees fit. I am not sure that we are allowed to say what we may hear so I will not comment on that part. Did you at one time think it was impossible that the DP would ever be dropped for any of them?
I'm now curious as to what you have heard; it's always interesting to know what others are talking about
 
  • #223
No they have not, but they listed the guns and knife so it seems they probably would have listed any other items in the buckets. Perhaps not. When it says Item 1 - Bucket 2, it sounds like one item.

When Junk mentions the weapons and vehicle in his motion it sounds like that is what they recovered.

I would not see listing those items would be any different than listing the guns or it would tamper with a jury pool any more so. I will be interested to see if there were more items in those buckets.
Do you think All Terrain Vehicle where used that night at least (1) 4 wheelers????
 
  • #224
Has the prosecution let the public see a full disclosure of what was in the buckets, I would say not that would tamper with getting a good jury pool, IMO
I think we will see a whole lot more evidence as soon as the trials begin.

No they have not, but they listed the guns and knife so it seems they probably would have listed any other items in the buckets. Perhaps not. When it says Item 1 - Bucket 2, it sounds like one item.

When Junk mentions the weapons and vehicle in his motion it sounds like that is what they recovered.

I would not see listing those items would be any different than listing the guns or it would tamper with a jury pool any more so. I will be interested to see if there were more items in those buckets.
I'm now curious as to what you have heard; it's always interesting to know what others are talking about

You know how it goes, people talk and you never know what is true and what is not.
 
  • #225
Do you think All Terrain Vehicle where used that night at least (1) 4 wheelers????
I do not, but I have seen many people that think they were.
 
  • #226
I wish I had a big dry erase board, so I could lay out all the evidence and discovery’s and other information, I bet a person could see a whole lot more just like the LE does, JMO
 
  • #227
Those charges can be changed or some dropped if the state sees fit. I am not sure that we are allowed to say what we may hear so I will not comment on that part. Did you at one time think it was impossible that the DP would ever be dropped for any of them?

Be careful, some love to scream the word "hearsay." :D I could write a book of what's stored in my memory of all the "hearsay" things I have been privy to being told, and yep sometimes just overhearing conversations. ;)
 
  • #228
JB,
I would take hard physical evidence over the words and eyes of witnesses. JW sealed their fate with disclosure of the physical evidence, not necessarily his accounting of events. Defense attorneys can twist words but they cannot twist the physical evidence. It is what it is! JMO

4 LWOP sentences.
 
  • #229
I am curious to Betty, is there new evidence or has BW or AW decided to take a plea? If someone else were to take a plea I think it would/will be AW MOO.

Yep.
This could relate to one or two others accepting the plea deal, and perhaps more factual evidence supporting Jakes words coming out.
Or.
I hate to say it but - maybe someone has indicated support for the "Non involvement" of G4 . Or a lesser involvement. The idea he chickened out, did not shoot. Doesn't really matter. G4 is still in the bag for the major elements of the crime.
 
  • #230
Those charges can be changed or some dropped if the state sees fit. I am not sure that we are allowed to say what we may hear so I will not comment on that part. Did you at one time think it was impossible that the DP would ever be dropped for any of them?

I agree, charges can be changed, reduced or dropped.
Prosecution has plenty of charges to work with, and the end result is still the same, Cold blooded murder.

We don't know what AC has found in the last few days, August 13.

It could be info. totally against G4 or it could be info. to show his lesser involvement.

Could be a negotiating point if other defendants support G4 claims.

We know he is guilty guilty guilty.
Guilty even if the claim is now - G4 would not shoot anyone as a last minute decision, is supported by BW and /or AW.
G4 can be put away. LWOP, on a small change or reduction in one or two charges. There is too much evidence.
 
  • #231
I wish I had a big dry erase board, so I could lay out all the evidence and discovery’s and other information, I bet a person could see a whole lot more just like the LE does, JMO

What?

JBB, are you saying you haven't personally created a big dry erase board in your home?
I have.
In addition I have a wall of cork board with photos, relationships, all the necessary attached strings etc.

Just kidding...maybe...
 
  • #232
Be careful, some love to scream the word "hearsay." :D I could write a book of what's stored in my memory of all the "hearsay" things I have been privy to being told, and yep sometimes just overhearing conversations. ;)

I could also, that is why I do not repeat them.
 
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  • #233
  • #234
This link is a brief article that can shed light on the potential reasons for the recent flurry of motions.
You can see G4 lawyers are following the standard objections with recent motions.
This is in line with a vigorous defense.
However, the Judge has some authority to step in regarding the plea deal etc.
I have full confidence in AC and Judge Deering.

Plea bargain

Snipped info.
Plea bargains are agreements between defendants and prosecutors in which defendants agree to plead guilty to some or all of the charges against them in exchange for concessions from the prosecutors.
In plea bargains, prosecutors usually agree to reduce a defendant's punishment.
They often accomplish this by reducing the number of charges of the severity of the charges against defendants.
They might also agree to recommend that defendants receive reduced sentences.
Some plea bargains require defendants to do more than simply plead guilty.
Prosecutors often offer favorable plea bargains to defendants who agree to testify for the state in cases against other defendants.
In some jurisdictions, prosecutors and defendants can work with judges to predetermine what sentence the defendants will get if the defendants accept plea bargains.
In most jurisdictions, however, judges’ role in plea bargaining is limited.
Plea bargains are controversial.
Others argue that plea bargains are too coercive and undermine important constitutional rights.
Plea bargaining does require defendants to waive three rights protected by the Fifth and Sixth Amendments:
the right to a jury trial, the right against self-incrimination, and the right to confront witnesses.
The Supreme Court, however, in numerous cases ...has held that plea bargaining is constitutional.
The Supreme Court, however, has held that defendants’ guilty pleas must be voluntary, and that defendants may only plead guilty if they know the consequences of doing so...
Courts treat plea bargains as contracts between prosecutors and defendants.
A defendant breaking a plea bargain is akin to a breach of contract, which will result in the prosecutor no longer being bound by his or her obligation in the plea deal.
If a prosecutor reneges on plea bargains, defendants may seek relief from the judge.
The judge might let the defendant withdraw the guilty pleas, may force the prosecutor to follow the plea bargain, or may apply some other remedy.
 
  • #235
I agree, charges can be changed, reduced or dropped.
Prosecution has plenty of charges to work with, and the end result is still the same, Cold blooded murder.

We don't know what AC has found in the last few days, August 13.

It could be info. totally against G4 or it could be info. to show his lesser involvement.

Could be a negotiating point if other defendants support G4 claims.

We know he is guilty guilty guilty.
Guilty even if the claim is now - G4 would not shoot anyone as a last minute decision, is supported by BW and /or AW.
G4 can be put away. LWOP, on a small change or reduction in one or two charges. There is too much evidence.

I agree it could be anything, it could be JW changing his mind about testifying. It could be AW saying she shot the five JW claims to have shot, could be new evidence. etc. There are so many things it could be.
I still do not see how anything that they may find out, information they may come into has to do with them holding on to the proffer. I think that is the issue between the defense and state.
They cannot edit the proffer, it will be the same today that it is in 30 days or a year from now. They probably have some reason they want to hold on to it. I just cannot think of a legal reason they can hold on to it after the judge ordered a deadline but there probably may be.
 
  • #236
To the best of my recollection, most of the rumors shared over the years about this case were proven false. All of the major events came as a big surprise - the arrests, Jake's plea deal, RN's plea deal, recovery of the murder weapons, extra vehicles, etc. Some were expected, but the actual events were a surprise.
 
  • #237
I agree, charges can be changed, reduced or dropped.
Prosecution has plenty of charges to work with, and the end result is still the same, Cold blooded murder.

We don't know what AC has found in the last few days, August 13.

It could be info. totally against G4 or it could be info. to show his lesser involvement.

Could be a negotiating point if other defendants support G4 claims.

We know he is guilty guilty guilty.
Guilty even if the claim is now - G4 would not shoot anyone as a last minute decision, is supported by BW and /or AW.
G4 can be put away. LWOP, on a small change or reduction in one or two charges. There is too much evidence.

Jumping off this post. If it was something that favored G4, could the state be worried that his defense will use the proffer to try to get him bond and then things will come out in court that were said in the proffer. Could they even call JW in a bond hearing to testify? I am not sure of all that legal stuff. I doubt he will get a bond ever, but if they did try again it may let things out.
 
  • #238
JB,
I would take hard physical evidence over the words and eyes of witnesses. JW sealed their fate with disclosure of the physical evidence, not necessarily his accounting of events. Defense attorneys can twist words but they cannot twist the physical evidence. It is what it is! JMO

4 LWOP sentences.

I agree.
Physical EVIDENCE is the key.
Defense Attorneys twist words.
 
  • #239
I agree it could be anything, it could be JW changing his mind about testifying. It could be AW saying she shot the five JW claims to have shot, could be new evidence. etc. There are so many things it could be.
I still do not see how anything that they may find out, information they may come into has to do with them holding on to the proffer. I think that is the issue between the defense and state.
They cannot edit the proffer, it will be the same today that it is in 30 days or a year from now. They probably have some reason they want to hold on to it. I just cannot think of a legal reason they can hold on to it after the judge ordered a deadline but there probably may be.

MO
I'm confused.
Are we talking about the Proffer Recording?

MO AC can always argue against releasing the Proffer Recording. She can find a legal argument to use. I don't know what it would be though.
MO The Judge will also find a legal way to allow her more time.
 
  • #240
MO
I'm confused.
Are we talking about the Proffer Recording?

MO AC can always argue against releasing the Proffer Recording. She can find a legal argument to use. I don't know what it would be though.
MO The Judge will also find a legal way to allow her more time.

Yes I am talking about the proffer recording. The proffer is the recording. That is the discovery referred to in the motions. I will be surprised if he allows the state more time to turn over the proffer. If so then it would seem it would have to be something really big to allow that.
 
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