GUILTY OH Pike Co., 8 in Rhoden Family Murdered Over Custody Issue, 4 Members Wagner Family Arrested #64

[IType]

With Jake pleading and judged guilty and agreeing to testify against the other family members, their only defense is "you cant believe him, he is a convicted murderer". jmo

Pretty sad, huh?

 

[IType]

Just adding this.
Now that Jake has confessed to guilt and is basically under the control of The State:
Is Jake considered a witness for the State?
Do Jake's Attorneys still play a role?
My thought is, and I could be wrong, any motions for production of records, evidence
from JW, no matter which other Defense Attorney, are under the control of AC.
Could be why The State delayed much of what we question. Again, I may not be stating this well.
Any discussion s appreciated.

Yes, JW is now considered a witness for the State since part of his plea deal was to testify against his co-conspirators. JW's attorneys still play a huge role for JW. They will represent him and give him guidance all the way through to the end of the pleas/trials of his co-conspirators, all the way through to JW's sentencing hearing. That hearing can't take place until the remaining W4 cases are resolved. The same goes for RN.

JW is just a witness to the remaining W4 cases, no different than any other witness. So, yes, all evidence against the remaining W4 is strictly under control of the prosecuting team.

JMO

JMO

 

[IType]

including but not limited to any Juvenile proceeding, Grand Jury or Trial whether Civil or Criminal in nature

What "juvenile proceeding" could be connected to this case? Thoughts anyone?

 

[IType]

Not alot of time plus labor day takes off a business day.

They filed just exactly 3 weeks before the September 13th court date.
So I think the court didn't have time to get everyone together before the 13th.

However, there still should be some type of response filed by the prosecution which maybe will be filed this week? I would venture the guess that something will come up on the Docket this week.

Snail

BBM. If not, they may address it at GW4's hearing on 9/13/21. The court can just make a docket entry then to say the motion was denied. IMO

 

[IType]

Maybe Bucket Number 1 (contents)?

I noted in the Motion for Extension of Deadline for Supplemental Discovery (link on previous page, posted by CO), in the third paragraph it says "all other aspects of discovery since the plea...have been provided to defense counsel in this case, to include...forensic examinations on some of the aforementioned items". The "aforementioned items" also included weapons, a vehicle and interviews of other witnesses.

IMO, it very well could be more forensic reports that were received on the same day (8/13/21) as the deadline for turning over the proffer recording. However, I'm still not sure why that would prevent the prosecution from turning over the recording. Maybe this question will be answered at GW4's 9/13/21 (or sooner if court approves) hearing. JMO

 

[IType]

I've been thinking about why the motion to depose critical witness in GW4's case hasn't been mentioned again since it was filed back in March, just about a month prior to JW's confession.

I wonder if JW's confession included details about the purchase of the bulletproof vests and whether FW really did lie under oath to the grand jury about who actually ordered/purchased them and the purchase date. If so, that would really throw a monkey wrench into things for FW. She may be lying pretty low right now in hopes that her perjury/obstruction charges aren't refiled. Just a thought.

 

[Ann99]

Yes, JW is now considered a witness for the State since part of his plea deal was to testify against his co-conspirators. JW's attorneys still play a huge role for JW. They will give represent him and give him guidance all the way through to the end of the pleas/trials of his co-conspirators, all the way through to JW's sentencing hearing. That hearing can't take place until the remaining W4 cases are resolved. The same goes for RN.

JW is just a witness to the remaining W4 cases, no different than any other witness. So, yes, all evidence against the remaining W4 is strictly under control of the prosecuting team.

JMO

JMO

Thanks!
The fact of there being Four sets of Defense Attorneys (2 lawyers on each team) and now Jake is a State witness, seems to make this case and its path to resolve with guilty pleas all around very complex and hard to second guess.

 

[joe jones]

Has it ever been mentioned in court or documents who killed whom, I know Jake has admitted to 5 of the murders but no names were given as far as I can see. I think it logical to think JW killed Dana, Hanna and Christopher JR plus Frankie and Hannah due to the .22 cartridges found at both scenes and that being Jakes gun, it is highly likely George 4 and Jake were at Chris Sr house due to bloody shoe prints (Angela had bought the shoes that made those prints for her boys) and I think Billy may have been their (I think these were the victims they were most worried about being able to murder) not sure who killed those two and not sure who killed Kenneth. Billy and George 4 had to have killed the remining 3 but who did what I am unsure.

 

[Cool Cats]

Has it ever been mentioned in court or documents who killed whom, I know Jake has admitted to 5 of the murders but no names were given as far as I can see. I think it logical to think JW killed Dana, Hanna and Christopher JR plus Frankie and Hannah due to the .22 cartridges found at both scenes and that being Jakes gun, it is highly likely George 4 and Jake were at Chris Sr house due to bloody shoe prints (Angela had bought the shoes that made those prints for her boys) and I think Billy may have been their (I think these were the victims they were most worried about being able to murder) not sure who killed those two and not sure who killed Kenneth. Billy and George 4 had to have killed the remining 3 but who did what I am unsure.

Everything you say is all we know about it.

Jake admitted shooting 5 people and he owned a 22 and it is the 22 shell casings that were found at 2 crime scenes on UHR. The 22 shell casings were found at Dana's and Frankie's. I think these were the 5 Jake shot.

Yes it appears both shoe prints from Jake and George were found at Chris's house so it appears George, Jake and Billy were all there.

Gary was shot with larger caliber bullets and I think these came from the 40 Glock.
George bought a Glock and was known as a Glock man so I think he shot Gary using his Glock. Billy fought with Chris and pulled a gun on him so I think he shot Chris using the SKS 32.

I think Billy or George shot Kenny.

This information comes from Canepa at Jake's Guilty Plea Hearing April 22nd, 2021, and Scheiderer at George's Bond Hearing August 31st, 2020.

 

[Cool Cats]

I've been thinking about why the motion to depose critical witness in GW4's case hasn't been mentioned again since it was filed back in March, just about a month prior to JW's confession.

I wonder if JW's confession included details about the purchase of the bulletproof vests and whether FW really did lie under oath to the grand jury about who actually ordered/purchased them and the purchase date. If so, that would really throw a monkey wrench into things for FW. She may be lying pretty low right now in hopes that her perjury/obstruction charges aren't refiled. Just a thought.

I think FW is the critical witness and now that Jake has confessed she may not want to do the deposition.

The deposition was only sopose to be done in case FW couldn't make it to the trial to give her critical testimony. Nash, George's attorney, was concerned about Covid and her age possibly interfering with her being able to make it to trial.

So it still is possible she will testify at trial but I think it more likely that she doesn't want to testify anymore because how can she?

How can she say other people did it when her own grandson says he personally shot 5? Plus he plead guilty for being involved with killing the other 3 as well. He plead guilty to all 8 murders.

Vests? The receipts show they were purchased in May 2016 after the murders so they have nothing to do with the murders. Well except to be used as protection because the murders took place.

The thing to be worried about for FW is if it was her $ that financed the crimes. Her bank accounts are in the Wagner 4's Discovery Evidence. Her money is apparently entwined with the Wagner 4.

I also think it could be a concern to her that her computers may have been used for murder purchases and/or research. Rhoden searchers are on a FWF computer for example.

Crime or no crime I wouldn't want my money or computers involved with murder.

 

[Cool Cats]

This Wagner Discovery lists FW's computers and financial institutions. It could be possible that one or more of the 4 Wagners used FW's computers and/or money in the planning and purchasing for the murders. This could easily have been done 100% without FW's and RW's knowledge.

Search Warrants for 4 Computers

RCA Tablet FWF Robin
Cookies (2 items)
Images (11 items)
Web History (1 item)
Screenshots 10-22 (4 pages)

Dell Desktop FWF
Google Searches (95 items)
Identifiers (2 items)
PDF Documents (19 items)
Rhoden Search (13 items)
Word Documents (15 items)
Screenshot 2020 10-22 (2 items)

Nixsys Desktop FWF
Identifiers (1 item)
User Accounts (1 item)

Generic Desktop FWF
User Accounts (1 item)

Many Subpoenas For Bank And Financial Institutions Records And Statements

Bank of America, Capitol One, Chase Bank, Fifth Third, Fith Third passwords, First State Bank, Ohio Valley Bank, Sheffield Financial, Farm Credit, Merchants, Guaranty.

MOD APPROVED ORIGINALLY POSTED BY COVERT OPERATIVE

 

[IType]

I think FW is the critical witness and now that Jake has confessed she may not want to do the deposition.

The deposition was only sopose to be done in case FW couldn't make it to the trial to give her critical testimony. Nash, George's attorney, was concerned about Covid and her age possibly interfering with her being able to make it to trial.

So it still is possible she will testify at trial but I think it more likely that she doesn't want to testify anymore because how can she?

How can she say other people did it when her own grandson says he personally shot 5? Plus he plead guilty for being involved with killing the other 3 as well. He plead guilty to all 8 murders.

Vests? The receipts show they were purchased in May 2016 after the murders so they have nothing to do with the murders. Well except to be used as protection because the murders took place.

The thing to be worried about for FW is if it was her $ that financed the crimes. Her bank accounts are in the Wagner 4's Discovery Evidence. Her money is apparently entwined with the Wagner 4.

I also think it could be a concern to her that her computers may have been used for murder purchases and/or research. Rhoden searchers are on a FWF computer for example.

Crime or no crime I wouldn't want my money or computers involved with murder.

Above BBM, It was not successfully proven in court that the vests bought in May were the same vests that were found in BW's room at FWF. It also was not proven that the receipt FW eventually produced in court was for the vests found in BW's room at FWF, nor that the receipt FW produced was valid or a forgery of some kind.

FW's charges were dropped because new information had been given to the prosecution and they did not have time to fully investigate the new info before time ran out for FW's right to a speedy trial. Thus, the charges were dropped with the option to refile charges before the 6 year statute of limitations runs out.

I'm not convinced that the vest issue has been fully resolved and will not be surprised if the charges are refiled based on info provided by JW in his confession. This is just my opinion, and I could be wrong.

Quote/link from 3/28/19:
"......Owen asked for the dismissal of the case saying his client had been charged with a crime that was not committed. “We want the court to take a fresh look,” Owen said. “It’s a matter of law.”

Canepa responded by saying the documentation that was given to the court showing when and how the bullet proof vests were purchased was not authentic. “We need to look at all four corners of the indictment,” Canepa said. She said there is much more to the case than Owen was putting before the court and asked Deering to over rule the motion..... "
Trial dates set for Newcomb, Wagner - Portsmouth Daily Times

Quote/link from 6/26/19:
"Mrs. Wagner is maintaining as she has since the day of her arrest she’s innocent and been wrongfully charged," her attorney James Owen said in court Wednesday. "We believe that the foundation for the dismissal is that the evidence doesn’t lead to guilt."

Special Prosecutor Angie Canepa disagreed with Owen's view on the dismissal which was done so investigators can further analyze "new and favorable" evidence without expending speedy trial time which would run out on Aug. 3. Unlike other family members charged in relation to the Rhoden murder case, Wagner had not waived speedy trial time and had been set to go to trial on July 29.

Prosecutors said Wagner had lied during grand jury testimony on July 18, 2018, about where she bought two bulletproof vests. She had testified she bought them on Amazon. Wagner said later she bought them on eBay.

The new information being analyzed presumably stems from what was provided by defense in March which Owen had argued proved Wagner's innocence.

"We need to conclude our investigation. It's a lot to go through," Canepa said after the dismissal, saying she was unsure how long that will take. "The stuff we've gone through is good."

Canepa noted there is a six-year statute of limitations on the charges.

Fredericka Wagner: Charges dismissed in Rhoden murder case

 

[Cool Cats]

Above BBM, It was not successfully proven in court that the vests bought in May were the same vests that were found in BW's room at FWF. It also was not proven that the receipt FW eventually produced in court was for the vests found in BW's room at FWF, nor that the receipt FW produced was valid or a forgery of some kind.

FW's charges were dropped because new information had been given to the prosecution and they did not have time to fully investigate the new info before time ran out for FW's right to a speedy trial. Thus, the charges were dropped with the option to refile charges before the 6 year statute of limitations runs out.

I'm not convinced that the vest issue has been fully resolved and will not be surprised if the charges are refiled based on info provided by JW in his confession. This is just my opinion, and I could be wrong.

Quote/link from 3/28/19:
"......Owen asked for the dismissal of the case saying his client had been charged with a crime that was not committed. “We want the court to take a fresh look,” Owen said. “It’s a matter of law.”

Canepa responded by saying the documentation that was given to the court showing when and how the bullet proof vests were purchased was not authentic. “We need to look at all four corners of the indictment,” Canepa said. She said there is much more to the case than Owen was putting before the court and asked Deering to over rule the motion..... "
Trial dates set for Newcomb, Wagner - Portsmouth Daily Times

Quote/link from 6/26/19:
"Mrs. Wagner is maintaining as she has since the day of her arrest she’s innocent and been wrongfully charged," her attorney James Owen said in court Wednesday. "We believe that the foundation for the dismissal is that the evidence doesn’t lead to guilt."

Special Prosecutor Angie Canepa disagreed with Owen's view on the dismissal which was done so investigators can further analyze "new and favorable" evidence without expending speedy trial time which would run out on Aug. 3. Unlike other family members charged in relation to the Rhoden murder case, Wagner had not waived speedy trial time and had been set to go to trial on July 29.

Prosecutors said Wagner had lied during grand jury testimony on July 18, 2018, about where she bought two bulletproof vests. She had testified she bought them on Amazon. Wagner said later she bought them on eBay.

The new information being analyzed presumably stems from what was provided by defense in March which Owen had argued proved Wagner's innocence.

"We need to conclude our investigation. It's a lot to go through," Canepa said after the dismissal, saying she was unsure how long that will take. "The stuff we've gone through is good."

Canepa noted there is a six-year statute of limitations on the charges.

Fredericka Wagner: Charges dismissed in Rhoden murder case

Just like JM's charges were never refiled I don't think FW's charges will be refiled.

They have had 2 years to fully investigate the new info they said they had and 6 months to investigate any new info given by Jake, yet in all this time no new indictments have come out.

06/26/2019
MOTION TO DISMISS WITHOUT PREJUDICE FILED

March 2021, Jake turned State's evidence

I think the FW ship has sailed. No reason to wait till after George's trial because that won't even be fully resolved with a sentence until summer or autumn of 2022.

 

[Ann99]

CC , IType, and anyone else with an opinion.
Thoughts on these two phrases from AC on the day of Jakes Guilty Plea.

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2:00.32

Starting at approx 1:50 and for 2 minutes or so.

AC Stated:

...removed the cell phones on all but 2 of the victims...

....they asked others to lie to cover up this particular crime....
#
MOO
Wondering, what OTHERS ? Who? How many OTHERS?
Would that have been FW and RN?
Or additional people in the Wagner world.
I believe charges against FW will be refiled, and she will face new and more serious charges. AC did indicate JW would testify at Grand Jury Proceedings.

On the cell phones, any ideas on the 2 cell phones not taken? I hadn't realized this - 2 were not taken. Was that an error or oversight on the part of the Wagners? What info. might have been available to BCI on those 2 cell phones?
I have a feeling one could have been KR. Just a guess.
All MO.

 

[Ann99]

What "juvenile proceeding" could be connected to this case? Thoughts anyone?

I have been wondering about this too.
Since Juvenile Records are sealed, we may never know.
Possibly Jake has information about other crimes that may involve a Juvenile. Just guessing.

 

[Dudly]

Above BBM, It was not successfully proven in court that the vests bought in May were the same vests that were found in BW's room at FWF. It also was not proven that the receipt FW eventually produced in court was for the vests found in BW's room at FWF, nor that the receipt FW produced was valid or a forgery of some kind.

FW's charges were dropped because new information had been given to the prosecution and they did not have time to fully investigate the new info before time ran out for FW's right to a speedy trial. Thus, the charges were dropped with the option to refile charges before the 6 year statute of limitations runs out.

I'm not convinced that the vest issue has been fully resolved and will not be surprised if the charges are refiled based on info provided by JW in his confession. This is just my opinion, and I could be wrong.

Quote/link from 3/28/19:
"......Owen asked for the dismissal of the case saying his client had been charged with a crime that was not committed. “We want the court to take a fresh look,” Owen said. “It’s a matter of law.”

Canepa responded by saying the documentation that was given to the court showing when and how the bullet proof vests were purchased was not authentic. “We need to look at all four corners of the indictment,” Canepa said. She said there is much more to the case than Owen was putting before the court and asked Deering to over rule the motion..... "
Trial dates set for Newcomb, Wagner - Portsmouth Daily Times

Quote/link from 6/26/19:
"Mrs. Wagner is maintaining as she has since the day of her arrest she’s innocent and been wrongfully charged," her attorney James Owen said in court Wednesday. "We believe that the foundation for the dismissal is that the evidence doesn’t lead to guilt."

Special Prosecutor Angie Canepa disagreed with Owen's view on the dismissal which was done so investigators can further analyze "new and favorable" evidence without expending speedy trial time which would run out on Aug. 3. Unlike other family members charged in relation to the Rhoden murder case, Wagner had not waived speedy trial time and had been set to go to trial on July 29.

Prosecutors said Wagner had lied during grand jury testimony on July 18, 2018, about where she bought two bulletproof vests. She had testified she bought them on Amazon. Wagner said later she bought them on eBay.

The new information being analyzed presumably stems from what was provided by defense in March which Owen had argued proved Wagner's innocence.

"We need to conclude our investigation. It's a lot to go through," Canepa said after the dismissal, saying she was unsure how long that will take. "The stuff we've gone through is good."

Canepa noted there is a six-year statute of limitations on the charges.

Fredericka Wagner: Charges dismissed in Rhoden murder case

<modsnip>
Some of the original charges may be refilled, also...

 

[Dudly]

CC , IType, and anyone else with an opinion.
Thoughts on these two phrases from AC on the day of Jakes Guilty Plea.

To view this content we will need your consent to set third party cookies.
For more detailed information, see our cookies page.

Accept third party cookies

2:00.32

Starting at approx 1:50 and for 2 minutes or so.

AC Stated:

...removed the cell phones on all but 2 of the victims...

....they asked others to lie to cover up this particular crime....
#
MOO
Wondering, what OTHERS ? Who? How many OTHERS?
Would that have been FW and RN?
Or additional people in the Wagner world.
I believe charges against FW will be refiled, and she will face new and more serious charges. AC did indicate JW would testify at Grand Jury Proceedings.

On the cell phones, any ideas on the 2 cell phones not taken? I hadn't realized this - 2 were not taken. Was that an error or oversight on the part of the Wagners? What info. might have been available to BCI on those 2 cell phones?
I have a feeling one could have been KR. Just a guess.
All MO.

I would think the “others” could include RN, FW, and RW.
The phones not taken could be HG, CRjr, or KR...

 

[Cool Cats]

I have been wondering about this too.
Since Juvenile Records are sealed, we may never know.
Possibly Jake has information about other crimes that may involve a Juvenile. Just guessing.

WAGNER, ANGELA JO
Motion # 3

DEFENDANT'S MOTION FOR DISCLOSURE OF THE JUVENILE RECORDS OF PLAINTIFF'S WITNESSES FILED

Defendant's Motion For Disclosure Of The Juvenile Records Of Plaintiff's Witnesses

Failure to provide this information to Defendant will deprive him of his rights under the State and Federal U.S. Constitution Amendments. V, VI, VIII, and XIV; Ohio Constitution Article I; 1, 2, 5, 10, and 16.

"..The juvenile records counsel seeks the State to disclose are necessary to show possible biases, prejudices, and ulterior motives on the part of the witnesses for the State.."

"..Bias is demonstrated by a witness like, dislike, or fear of a party, or by the witness self-interest.."

"..confidentiality of juvenile records may not impinge on a defendants right to present all available, relevant and probative evidence.. "

 

[Ann99]

WAGNER, ANGELA JO
Motion # 3

DEFENDANT'S MOTION FOR DISCLOSURE OF THE JUVENILE RECORDS OF PLAINTIFF'S WITNESSES FILED

Defendant's Motion For Disclosure Of The Juvenile Records Of Plaintiff's Witnesses

Failure to provide this information to Defendant will deprive him of his rights under the State and Federal U.S. Constitution Amendments. V, VI, VIII, and XIV; Ohio Constitution Article I; 1, 2, 5, 10, and 16.

"..The juvenile records counsel seeks the State to disclose are necessary to show possible biases, prejudices, and ulterior motives on the part of the witnesses for the State.."

"..Bias is demonstrated by a witness like, dislike, or fear of a party, or by the witness self-interest.."

"..confidentiality of juvenile records may not impinge on a defendants right to present all available, relevant and probative evidence.. "

TY.
This is interesting.
Who could a witness with a juvenile record be?
I'm thinking that person or persons are adults now.
Sounds like there are more than one.

 

[Cool Cats]

CC , IType, and anyone else with an opinion.
Thoughts on these two phrases from AC on the day of Jakes Guilty Plea.

To view this content we will need your consent to set third party cookies.
For more detailed information, see our cookies page.

Accept third party cookies

2:00.32

Starting at approx 1:50 and for 2 minutes or so.

AC Stated:

...removed the cell phones on all but 2 of the victims...

....they asked others to lie to cover up this particular crime....
#
MOO
Wondering, what OTHERS ? Who? How many OTHERS?
Would that have been FW and RN?
Or additional people in the Wagner world.
I believe charges against FW will be refiled, and she will face new and more serious charges. AC did indicate JW would testify at Grand Jury Proceedings.

On the cell phones, any ideas on the 2 cell phones not taken? I hadn't realized this - 2 were not taken. Was that an error or oversight on the part of the Wagners? What info. might have been available to BCI on those 2 cell phones?
I have a feeling one could have been KR. Just a guess.
All MO.

Ok, I'll throw in my 2 ¢

Canepa at Jake's guilty plea hearing April 22, 2021

"We know that they removed the phones of all but 2 of the victims and cameras and other surveillance ......... to avoid detection."

This would simply be because they only found 6 phones or because they deliberately left 2 phones.

Canepa

"We know they forged documents to make them appear to be genuine and that they asked others to lie to cover up this particular crime."

We know of one person the Wagners asked to lie for them, concerning the custody documents, and that is RN. Angie forged RN's signature and wanted her to lie and say that she (RN) actually signed the documents.

I believe Angie used RN's signature because RN was a notary. I believe, being RN's daughter, that Angie was able to steal her mom's notary stamp as well as find paperwork to copy her signature.

The interesting thing is the word "others."

Is this referring to just RN or to RN and someone else?

Humm....