OH - Pike Co - 8 in Rhoden Family Murdered Over Custody Issue - 4 Members Wagner Family Arrested #80

[pittsburghgirl]

This is what I know we have for sure:

From Angenette tweet yesterday

“Jake also said his mother and brother tried to talk him out of the murders and that his mother lied to cover for him. He said he also told prosecutors in his proffer that George went along to protect him”

Tweet Copy & pasted to this thread, page 26, #514

This is very helpful.

See, I don't think George was afraid Billy would kill Jake. If this statement is true, the obvious point is that they were going to kill some people who were also likely to have guns at hand, who had or thought they had security, and who had dogs that would bark. That's why the Wagners wanted cell jammers; that's why they neutralized alarms; that's why they used trickery to get close to Chris, Sr. That's why they wanted silencers/suppressers and they went for head shots. They were afraid of Chris, Frankie and Kenneth. Then after the killings, they all go home together, go to the funerals together, go to Alaska together.

If this were 3 other killers, we would see that taking 3 people was about having a numerical advantage at each sight, about outgunning the victims, and about protecting each other.

Just my opinion.

 

[SuziQ]

They are very late this morning.

 

[rsd1200]

This is all crazy! GW4 is just as guilty if he did pull the trigger! He was there, in meeting, helped gather supplies and kept the secret! I mean he stood on watch at CRJ bedroom and you know he had a gun! They all four are guilty and Angela should be in jail for life!

If for instance, JW's lawyer made a huge mistake, it could be bad not only for this trial but for GW3's, JW's proffer, AW's plea, GW4 getting LWOP off the table (off the table for all of them). It's all on the prosecution to prove their case. GW4 is still an innocent man in the eyes of the law. If JW's defense atty screwed something up then GW4 and his team should be aware. As should the prosecution. Lawyers are people and people are fallible.

 

[sunshineray]

I am hoping that one of the reporters who has followed the case from day 1 writes a book, not just about the trial but a wide-ranging book about the area the crimes happened in, the families, the murders, post the murders and the trials, (not asking for much). Some of the profits could go to the surviving children.

I also hope FR provides for the surviving children, SW and BVW are her great grandchildren, KR is SW sister, BR father was killed by her Grandson, RR is an orphan due to her grandson killing both his parents, she has so much money that it would be helpful to whoever is raising the children, I also hope she provides money for their education when they are older post high school.

It would be a way to break the cycle of children having children and hopefully give them choices in life that their parents didn't have. I only know for sure where BVW and BR went, I don't know where the others are (I have seen posts as to who has them). That is just rumors and I do not know who they were placed with.

The property of the Rhoden's could also be sold, and the proceeds used to benefit the families, I haven't read anything about CRsr land being sold or KR.

AW must have given permission for CN and Randa and her mum and grandmother to live in AW fathers home, as AW inherited the home, when RN and her mother move next door CN said he will continue to live in that house, it is no use to AW for 30 years and with an aging grandmother and mother having CN and Randa next door will mean they will be able to help them as and when it is needed.

As far as FW...that sure would be a Christian thing to do.

 

[CIA Team Member]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1585992669284552704

Jake’s lawyers filed motion to quash subpoena for their notes

Prosecutors and GW4 attorneys are all back in chambers with court stenographer and Judge Deering likely talking about this subpoena for Jake's lawyers' notes.

 

[sunshineray]

If for instance, JW's lawyer made a huge mistake, it could be bad not only for this trial but for GW3's, JW's proffer, AW's plea, GW4 getting LWOP off the table (off the table for all of them). It's all on the prosecution to prove their case. GW4 is still an innocent man in the eyes of the law. If JW's defense atty screwed something up then GW4 and his team should be aware. As should the prosecution. Lawyers are people and people are fallible.

I'm praying that's not the case. This subpoena has me rattled. Here's hoping it's all for naught.

 

[ohioexpat63]

I'm more worried about the subpoena for JW's lawyers than JW misstating some minor things from his proffer.

I wouldnt worry too much. I believe the only way attorney client is broken is if the client agrees. But, I'm not a lawyer so Im guessing. Jmo

 

[pittsburghgirl]

I think the prosecution will object. They have not rested their case. How can the defense call JW’s attorneys to testify today when it’s not their turn. IMO

Also Jake was and is entitled to attorney-client privilege.

 

[sunshineray]

Ok judge is not even addressing the issue, testimony begins

 

[pittsburghgirl]

There are only a few things that can break attorney client privilege.
All of the below is merely speculation, guesswork, and research due to an inability to sleep, on my part:


GW4's Lawyer's Subpoena JW's Lawyer's, Info


WAVERLY, Ohio (WXIX) - George Wagner IV’s attorney has subpoenaed Jake Wagner’s attorney’s notes, according to a copy of the subpoena.

It orders Jake Wagner’s attorney to appear at 9 a.m. Friday before Pike County Common Pleas Court Judge Randy Deering and “Please bring your file and interview notes of Edward (Jake) Wagner concerning the involvement of him and his co-defendants in the homicides” in the case against Jake Wagner.

Pike County massacre: Complete trial coverage

Reached for comment on the phone, Gregory Myers of Columbus declined to comment.

We also reached out to George Wagner’s lawyer, Richard Nash of Chillicothe, but we have not heard back.

We will update this story once we do.
-------------------------------------------------------------------
Lawyers have attorney-client privileges to keep such information such as notes private, so it’s not clear why Nash is requesting such records.

The subpoena between the brothers’ lawyers comes as Jake Wagner faced his brother in court all week, testifying against him in a murder trial approaching the two month mark.

The trial is taking the day off Thursday due to a scheduling conflict with the judge.

It is set to resume a 9 a.m. Friday.

-----------------------

After RJN's confession that she'd lied in Dec 2019;
"Wagner said he took his grandmother’s words to heart and viewed them as “an answer from God.” He testified that he had been praying about what to do and had lied to his lawyers about committing the murders. A short time later, he said that he confessed to his lawyers and detailed his mother, father and brother’s involvement in the conspiracy but did not plan to cooperate and wanted to go to trial. He didn’t plan to testify at his trial because he would have to lie."

Ethical Obligations of a Lawyer When His Client Has Committed or Intends to Commit Perjury
What are a lawyer’s ethical obligations when his client reveals his intent to commit perjury? What are a lawyer’s ethical obligations when a lawyer learns that a client has committed perjury? 1) Persuade them not to do so. 2) Request to be removed as their attorney.
More at link below
Ethical Obligations of a Lawyer When His Client Has Committed or Intends to Commit Perjury
----
The attorney-client privilege protects most communications between clients and their lawyers. But, according to the crime-fraud exception to the privilege, a client's communication to her attorney isn't privileged if she made it with the intention of committing or covering up a crime or fraud. --more at link below--
Not all attorney-client communications are privileged.

Nash is the Johnnie Cochran of this trial. Disrupt, grandstand, interrupt the proceedings with ridiculous legal tactics. He does this because he has no defense for his client and so must discredit anyone who testifies against him.

 

[Betty P]

I sure hope it's JW's lawyers that are the guilty party, if in fact what ever JW said to them was something by law they had to tell the defense, and not something the prosecution knew and didn't reveal. I would think not. It seems such a logical and human thing for a criminal to do. Lie at first to protect his cohorts who are family. I sure it's happened before. AJMO

JMO, IANAL Clients/defendants are free to reveal any information they wish covered by attorney client privilege. The party who is legally bound is the attorney. Does anyone have a link showing that AC asked that specific question? TIA

That said, there's nothing to P&N's claims regarding the prosecution. They did this stuff all the time durng pre-trial. They frequently made baseless accusations against the prosecution, claiming they were hiding things, etc. None of it was true.

JMO, P&N play to the news media and if they can find a cooperative reporter or blogger or podcast willing to breathlessly report their rumors, they're happy. They do this because they have no other evidence to exonerate GW4.

 

[Betty P]

If JW's lawyers didn't say it happened or they told the prosecution in plea talks and the prosecution didn't disclose it...is that against the law?

IANAL and, so far, I have no proof the event even took place. I haven't seen any links. This could just be a rumor or false/exaggerated information.

 

[Dudly]

Thank you, for sharing your observation. Two people in the same room and two different takes. This is why I really wanted televised testimony. Few people see and hear the exact same thing.

“Few people see and hear the exact same thing.”
I have been saying this all along in this case…

 

[ohioexpat63]

JMO, IANAL Clients/defendants are free to reveal any information they wish covered by attorney client privilege. The party who is legally bound is the attorney. Does anyone have a link showing that AC asked that specific question? TIA

That said, there's nothing to P&N's claims regarding the prosecution. They did this stuff all the time durng pre-trial. They frequently made baseless accusations against the prosecution, claiming they were hiding things, etc. None of it was true.

JMO, P&N play to the news media and if they can find a cooperative reporter or blogger or podcast willing to breathlessly report their rumors, they're happy. They do this because they have no other evidence to exonerate GW4.

Bingo!!

 

[arielilane]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1585978446836297728

Ann, are you posting Ms. Levy's tweets today?

 

[rsd1200]

One thing about testimony varying some. That is a sign it was not rehearsed and memorized. How much variation is allowed before it is considered unreliable???

the idea to kill these people did not initiate with him
he was definitely a willing participant he will tell you that his dad was the
first to to broach the subject with him.

In his initial confession he said that it was all him and that he'd murdered all eight.

I'm not concerned about which window, if the dogs barked too loud and he forgot to add that they returned a 2nd time, and ignored the hounds, to get the job done (I think that's the way he or his father put it), nor who stood where.

I do wonder how he saw through doors that he'd earlier said were closed, since he saw light from beneath them and looked under the doors (at DR's). I wonder how they got GW4's print in the carpet at DR's, but did they not get a thing showing GW3's who was standing close to him? He's said to have been standing guard at DR's too (I guess in case GW4 went to sleep while JW was murdering DR, HMR, and scooping up and repositioning HMR's body so her day's old infant could find its way to nurse (it's not like her body could produce more milk after her death. His arrogance but stupidity is amazing) Personally, I think it's too much movie watching, and dreams of being Daryl. I personally think he's embellishing in places, and forgetting where he's embellishing at times. He's directing his own version of his own movie, so to speak, and the longer he drags it out, the longer he stays out of that cell w/o privileges (which were taken away, last I checked, until he has testified). Jake is playing the reluctant, but sworn to family duty, hero, saving his daughter by murdering her maternal family (but by golly he won't lie, that's just pushing the envelope too far, and Hell is hot.).

 

[arielilane]

The evidence will support and speak for itself. It's hard to believe most of JW testimony, it means nothing to me... I suspect that he is protecting certain family members at all cost. IMO

 

[ohioexpat63]

The evidence will support and speak for itself. It's hard to believe most of JW testimony, it means nothing to me... I suspect that he is protecting certain family members at all cost. IMO

I suspect this comment is correct. Based off his feeling of wishing nothing more than to see his accomplices being set free, I suspect he is doing his level best to diminish their involvement. We will see if AW corroborates JWs testimony. Jmo

 

[Ann99]

Ann, are you posting Ms. Levy's tweets today?

No.sorry if I overstepped. I just thought the first tweet of the building was interesting and alerted us that she is there and tweeting as usual.

 

[Betty P]

the idea to kill these people did not initiate with him
he was definitely a willing participant he will tell you that his dad was the
first to to broach the subject with him.

In his initial confession he said that it was all him and that he'd murdered all eight.

I'm not concerned about which window, if the dogs barked too loud and he forgot to add that they returned a 2nd time, and ignored the hounds, to get the job done (I think that's the way he or his father put it), nor who stood where.

I do wonder how he saw through doors that he'd earlier said were closed, since he saw light from beneath them and looked under the doors (at DR's). I wonder how they got GW4's print in the carpet at DR's, but did they not get a thing showing GW3's who was standing close to him? He's said to have been standing guard at DR's too (I guess in case GW4 went to sleep while JW was murdering DR, HMR, and scooping up and repositioning HMR's body so her day's old infant could find its way to nurse (it's not like her body could produce more milk after her death. His arrogance but stupidity is amazing) Personally, I think it's too much movie watching, and dreams of being Daryl. I personally think he's embellishing in places, and forgetting where he's embellishing at times. He's directing his own version of his own movie, so to speak, and the longer he drags it out, the longer he stays out of that cell w/o privileges (which were taken away, last I checked, until he has testified). Jake is playing the reluctant, but sworn to family duty, hero, saving his daughter by murdering her maternal family (but by golly he won't lie, that's just pushing the envelope too far, and Hell is hot.).

We also have to remember that Jake and his family are professional liars. It's part of how they think and live. They do it so much, they probably have a hard time telling the truth.

Do we have any evidence yet that Jake has been lying on the stand? Can someone provide me with a link to a legit news source making that claim? Pls. no podcasts, etc. TIA