GUILTY OK - 4 dead, many injured when car crashed into crowd at OSU homecoming parade

  • #121
She drove into a crowd of people while going 50 mph. Bipolar disorder will not explain nor justify those murderous actions. If she was having a Grand Mal Seizure or had blacked out from a diabetic reaction, then she might have a justifiable explanation. But mania from Bipolarity is not a solid excuse for such a purposeful action.

Maybe if she was a raving and severe schizophrenic and had delusions and hallucinations then she might be locked up in a mental hospital instead of a prison. But even then, she would go to trial and be sentenced.

I was just trying to help clarify sleeplessness IS associated with mental illness and if her lawyer is saying she has one then yes, the sleeplessness could be related.

I'm not trying to excuse her or justify her actions (her lawyer will take care of that), I'm just looking for possible explanations behind what she did.
 
  • #122
My son just graduated from OSU in May and was in Stillwater for homecoming. I didn't know he was there until after this happened. I guess my motherly instinct kicked in and I called him when I heard the awful news...sure enough, he had driven up for the game. He was not at the parade, but was tailgating by the stadium, talking to lots of people. Anyway...I asked what he had heard and he said that he had been told the driver was trying to commit suicide. Now, I don't know who told him this; it wasn't by any "official" or anything, just chatter with the tailgating folks around them.

I didn't believe it and told him she was charged with DUI, so she had to be under the influence of something. Now I just wonder what was really going on with her!
 
  • #123
You've really never heard of that? Weird.

Here's an example:
Judge: Terry Greer not guilty of wife's murder by reason of mental defect

But the judge was not talking Bipolar disorder:


A hearing regarding Greer's mental state began around 1:30 p.m. in Judge Tommy Nail's courtroom. The judge ruled Greer didn't know the difference between right and wrong during the time of the shootings.

Judge Nail also committed Greer to the state department of mental health. He will be transferred from the Jefferson County Jail to the Taylor Hardin Secure Medical Facility in Tuscaloosa.

Greer was accused of shooting his wife Lisa to death and attempting to murder his daughter Suzanna at their Gardendale home on Jan. 10, 2013.


Police officers found Greer stabbing himself with a kitchen knife in the bathroom and took him into custody.

He spent a couple months in the hospital recovering from his self-inflicted wounds before he was booked into the Jefferson County Jail in March 2013.

In a statement shared in court on Wednesday, Greer's daughter said her dad was acting strangely on the day of the shootings. He reportedly told his wife and daughter, "What if we all drive up to heaven today?"
=================================================

So he was committed to a mental hospital.
 
  • #124
I was just trying to help clarify sleeplessness IS associated with mental illness and if her lawyer is saying she has one then yes, the sleeplessness could be related.

I'm not trying to excuse her or justify her actions (her lawyer will take care of that), I'm just looking for possible explanations behind what she did.

She hasn't actually been diagnosed with anything "mental." Her lawyer isn't a psychologist or a psychiatrist.
 
  • #125
No. Not bi-polar disorder. One has to be found unable to comprehend reality, unable to know right from wrong or to decipher real from unreal, to be found not guilty because of insanity. A simple mental disorder will not be a valid defense. It might be a partial mitigation against sentencing however.

We don't know her diagnosis so I'm not sure it matters, but bipolar disorder is a serious mental disease. And sometimes it's enough of a defense.

Texas mother found not guilty by reason of insanity--bipolar disorder
 
  • #126
My son just graduated from OSU in May and was in Stillwater for homecoming. I didn't know he was there until after this happened. I guess my motherly instinct kicked in and I called him when I heard the awful news...sure enough, he had driven up for the game. He was not at the parade, but was tailgating by the stadium, talking to lots of people. Anyway...I asked what he had heard and he said that he had been told the driver was trying to commit suicide. Now, I don't know who told him this; it wasn't by any "official" or anything, just chatter with the tailgating folks around them.

I didn't believe it and told him she was charged with DUI, so she had to be under the influence of something. Now I just wonder what was really going on with her!

I am so glad your son was tailgating instead of watching the parade. what a nightmare that must have been.

I have no problem with someone deciding to end their own life. I will not judge them for that gut wrenching decision. But taking innocent people down with them is pathetic, evil and there is no excuse. :mad:
 
  • #127
My son just graduated from OSU in May and was in Stillwater for homecoming. I didn't know he was there until after this happened. I guess my motherly instinct kicked in and I called him when I heard the awful news...sure enough, he had driven up for the game. He was not at the parade, but was tailgating by the stadium, talking to lots of people. Anyway...I asked what he had heard and he said that he had been told the driver was trying to commit suicide. Now, I don't know who told him this; it wasn't by any "official" or anything, just chatter with the tailgating folks around them.

I didn't believe it and told him she was charged with DUI, so she had to be under the influence of something. Now I just wonder what was really going on with her!

Score one for motherly instinct!

I wonder what was going on with her too and I'm trying to remember other cases of people driving into crowds. Didn't something similar happen in Las Vegas? And maybe Santa Monica? I have to google more and find out the reasons.

eta: Santa Monica Farmers Market crash has its own wikipedia page
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Santa_Monica_Farmers_Market_crash
 
  • #128
  • #129
Legal insanity and mental illness are two entirely different situations. Someone who is suffering a psychotic episode [a complete break from reality which may or may not include delusions, auditory and/or visual hallucinations] may be considered "criminally insane" or may be considered to have been "criminally insane; the inability to know consciously the differences between right and wrong".

Bipolar Disorder I can cause both psychosis and auditory/visual hallucinations therefore it is possible that someone with bipolar disorder could be considered "legally insane" at the time of the commission of a crime, if they were experiencing extreme psychosis.

However, it does the mentally ill a great disservice to imply that simply having a mental health condition means that person is automatically out of control, psychotic or otherwise...

Now, those who suffer from mental health issues may not be aware of the seriousness of their issues and/or may self-medicate. That is why it is imperative for close friends and/or family to observe someone with a mental health condition to ensure that they properly follow whatever regimen their psych docs provide for them, both with meds and other treatment.

That being said, your average mentally ill person is far, far more likely to be a victim of violent crime than to perpetrate one. Imagine how easy it would be to avoid criminals if they all acted "weird" or "mentally ill" all of the time.

I feel I can speak with some authority on this as not only did I minor in psych as an undergrad, I suffer from mental illness. It is so difficult for people to understand that mentally ill people suffer from a REAL condition that is usually treatable with patience and perseverence.

If you saw me walking down the street, or knew me casually [even long-term] you would likely not know that I have a history of mental illness. I am a mother, wife and business owner. I follow a strict regimen when if comes to my meds and I treat my condition just as I'd take the necessary treatment steps for diabetes or any "acceptable" illness.

And believe me, it's much safer for our society to allow those who have mental health concerns to seek treatment without becoming ostracized or excluded from society than to leave them untreated. There are many professions that basically make it impossible for someone suffering from mental illness to seek treatment because they will lose their employment. Of course, hiring a severely mentally ill person in a condition like this wouldn't be ideal but that's beside the point. People with mental illness need to be treated with the same respect, and held to the same standards as anyone else. Otherwise they avoid treatment out of shame, etc.

In my opinion, mental health issues have very little to do with this case. This woman is a mass-murderer and should suffer the consequences. If I did something like this, even when my illness was uncontrolled, I would expect to be held responsible. Just like mentally ill people should be treated equally as others with health conditions in a medical setting; the same should apply to the legal setting. The only exception being some type of extreme psychosis that had not been caused by extraneous circumstances [i.e. drug abuse, non-compliance with meds, etc.]

I hope this makes sense. I'm sleepy... and don't worry I won't be taking Ambien and driving off anywhere. They gave my Ambien when I was in the hospital for bed-rest during pregnancy with preeclampsia, to help me sleep ONCE. About 25-30 minutes later, the blankets appeared to be rolling in waves toward me and the walls began undulating. It is, thankfully, the only time I've hallucinated and it was awful. Being 7 months pregnancy and tripping, stuck in the hospital, in a dark room alone is NOT a fun experience!!!
 
  • #130
We don't know her diagnosis so I'm not sure it matters, but bipolar disorder is a serious mental disease. And sometimes it's enough of a defense.

Texas mother found not guilty by reason of insanity--bipolar disorder

here is a description of the woman from your link:

"Defense attorney David Pire says Busby felt God had told her to throw her sons off the bridge to protect them from Satan."


I am not a mental health expert but that sounds more like delusions and hallucinations from full blown psychosis than bi-polar disorder.

I know many people suffering from various degrees of bi-polar disorder. NONE of them have thrown their babies off a bridge because God told them they were devils.

And in reading your article, it seems to imply how UNUSUAL it is to use bi-polar disorder in a trial about attempted murder.
 
  • #131
I am so glad your son was tailgating instead of watching the parade. what a nightmare that must have been.

I have no problem with someone deciding to end their own life. I will not judge them for that gut wrenching decision. But taking innocent people down with them is pathetic, evil and there is no excuse. :mad:

If this woman was attempting a suicide, it certainly doesn't sound like a legit attempt. Driving in a crowd full of people is very unlikely to kill you. Why didn't she drive into a concrete wall or off the bridge if she was really trying to kill herself?It's only been a day and we already heard nearly any excuse under the sun.
She is mental, she is diabetic, she doesn't remember anything, etc, etc, etc.
 
  • #132
here is a description of the woman from your link:

"Defense attorney David Pire says Busby felt God had told her to throw her sons off the bridge to protect them from Satan."


I am not a mental health expert but that sounds more like delusions and hallucinations from full blown psychosis than bi-polar disorder.

I know many people suffering from various degrees of bi-polar disorder. NONE of them have thrown their babies off a bridge because God told them they were devils.

And in reading your article, it seems to imply how UNUSUAL it is to use bi-polar disorder in a trial about attempted murder.

You don't have to be an expert to know her hearing God telling her to throw her babies off the bridge is what happens with delusions and psychosis, and both accompany bipolar disorder. That's one of the reasons I said it's a serious illness and not "a simple mental disorder."
 
  • #133
Score one for motherly instinct!

I wonder what was going on with her too and I'm trying to remember other cases of people driving into crowds. Didn't something similar happen in Las Vegas? And maybe Santa Monica? I have to google more and find out the reasons.

eta: Santa Monica Farmers Market crash has its own wikipedia page
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Santa_Monica_Farmers_Market_crash

It has happened twice very near to me--too close for comfort. I was at the Farmers Market in Santa Monica that day. It was an elderly gentlemen that mowed down all those people. But many still believe he did it on purpose.

It happened again very recently on the Venice Boardwalk. Right near my daughters apartment. This idiot jerk killed an innocent woman and injured 17 others.

http://touch.latimes.com/#section/-1/article/p2p-83696423/
 
  • #134
Yes, regarding what he told me...the first words out of my mouth were "that's not the way you commit suicide". But who knows? I'm sure more information will be released. I'm just glad my son wasn't at the parade. And I feel heartbroken for the families of the victims.
 
  • #135
  • #136
rsbm

Wow, that's absolutely incredible -- twice!

No, not twice. Both were close to home though.

The first place was the Santa Monica Farmers Mkt.

THOUSANDS of locals go every wednesday. So it was not unusual that I was there earlier that day.

I was not there for the Venice Beach tragedy. It is very near my daughters apt. So too close to home.
 
  • #137
It is clear to me that Miss Chambers did not suffer a medical emergency and I trust that Law Enforcement had amble evidence to arrest her for DUI. I won't be shocked to learn that drugs were found in her possession (in her car) at the scene.

While I do understand that people want to try and find a reason, other than her drug use, for her actions... I am not one of those people.

It is very clear that she is under the influence of "something" in her mugshot. I am going to assume that that "something" is prescription drugs... and, in my opinion only, they were obtained illegally.

I think Miss Chambers was NOT the person many people thought she was... or they knew exactly who she was... but they are either in deep denial or covering for her in the media.

I am also not going to jump on the "mental illness" bandwagon.

These types of tragedies happen every day. Not on this scale, but innocent people are killed every day due to the actions of those who drive under the influence. I cannot muster up one ounce of sympathy for Miss Chambers and I look forward to her spending the rest of her life in prison.

Of course, I do not have a lot to go on. Only personal experience and knowing how easy it is to try and blame anything and anyone other than the person responsible for the carnage they have caused.

Miss Chambers is solely responsible for her actions that day and my heart aches for the lives lost and the lives of those innocent people who were personally effected by HER actions that day.

All my opinion.
 
  • #138
Yes, regarding what he told me...the first words out of my mouth were "that's not the way you commit suicide". But who knows? I'm sure more information will be released. I'm just glad my son wasn't at the parade. And I feel heartbroken for the families of the victims.

If she was actually trying to kill herself, certainly that's not the way to do it. But some suicide attempts are simply a way to get attention.
 
  • #139
If she was actually trying to kill herself, certainly that's not the way to do it. But some suicide attempts are simply a way to get attention.

I, luckily, have never been suicidal. But just trying to imagine myself getting to THAT point, it still doesn't make sense. Drive head on into a wall? Yes, I can see that. Driving into a crowd of innocent people? It makes no sense?

I guess we could look to the many cases of mass shootings where the shooter/s then commit suicide, but then we'd have to assume that her actions were premeditated and she made a conscious choice to kill other people.

Like I said, I don't have a lot of information to go on. I guess she could have used her vehicle as a weapon (and not a gun) to take as many people as she could with her in a suicide attempt...

I am sure we'll learn more tomorrow.
 
  • #140
Yes, regarding what he told me...the first words out of my mouth were "that's not the way you commit suicide". But who knows? I'm sure more information will be released. I'm just glad my son wasn't at the parade. And I feel heartbroken for the families of the victims.

I am so happy your son is okay and I am so very happy he didn't have to witness what happened. I cannot even begin to imagine those few moments between you seeing what happened and actually getting into contact with him. It must have been horrific for you.

Also, thank you for sharing the information you have with us.
 

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