Oscar Pistorius Defense

[Cherwell]

Posted on another thread by Tooby

Theory Thread - What happened at Pistorius' house on the night of Feb. 13, 2013? - Page 3 - Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community


"... he then approaches the bathroom "Get the Fxxx out of my house" speaks for itself. He's trying to cow her, to control her. He uses the bat on the bath panel to imitate a gunshot to scare her but it makes her worse and she starts the screaming ... maybe out of the window. He imagines woken neighbours in dressing gowns, police cars, newspapers and his ruined reputation. He needs to silence her and the 'intruder scenario' springs to mind, he starts shouting "Help, help, help". She realises what he's doing and her screams become primal."

That hadn't occurred to me before, and it's chilling. That he came up with the intruder story just before shooting her, and the shouts for help were part of his alibi (for want of a better word). It's more plausible to me than the idea that he was mocking her.

 

[crasshopper]

OK. So OP says he went to his bedroom to get the cricket bat, signed by a famed player of the sport, to take back to the bathroom.

RBSM

Why would OP keep a signed cricket bat in his bedroom, when all other memorabilia was on display downstairs in his LR?

Great point, why have the signed bat in there?

The only thing is that I do remember reading before the case:

"The sprinter slept with a pistol, machine gun, cricket bat and baseball bat nearby for fear of burglars at his upmarket home in a secure Pretoria estate, he told Britain's Daily Mail last year."

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2013-02-15/pistorius-adored-star-high-speed-private-life/4520930

Was a machine gun ever found?

 

[shane13]

Does anyone doubt that Roux will call the Standers? [As I do.]

While I am sure they will give Roux a great direct. If Nel does an honest and tough and inclusive cross, I see it sealing OP's fate, not helping him. Moo.

 

[sleuth-d-]

I have been thinking about the phone again today . I may be wrong but I thought there maybe testimony to the fact that Clarisa Stander made calls on behalf of OP ? Was there some suggestion that it was put on charge in the kitchen afterwards ?
If that is the case and it was last thought to be in her possession last you would think the prosecution would want to have called her to give evidence rather than rely on the defence calling her and then being able to cross examine her unless they may be waiting until the trial is over before taking action if any about the missing phone.
Is the judge likely to take the missing phone into account when judging the defence case overall and in particular OP believability ? Or as it does not appear to have been investigated will she disregard its removal from the scene
entirely ?

nel was definitely probing op regarding the phone being on a charger in the kitchen. op agreed there was a charger in the kitchen, but wouldn't be drawn into giving any details about the phone being on it. iirc.

he did agree one phone was in his pocket... for communication... which i would say makes sense.

 

[crasshopper]

I wondered the same thing...why call for help and then refuse it when it appears?

...and there you have it!

 

[Gbtaketwo]

Great point, why have the signed bat in there?

The only thing is that I do remember reading before the case:

"The sprinter slept with a pistol, machine gun, cricket bat and baseball bat nearby for fear of burglars at his upmarket home in a secure Pretoria estate, he told Britain's Daily Mail last year."

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2013-02-15/pistorius-adored-star-high-speed-private-life/4520930

Was a machine gun ever found?

I think it is thought and has been suggested that the air rifle was confused for the machine gun ?

 

[shane13]

I put it to you:

Instead of listing the probable lies in OP’s affidavit and plea [or testimony?], I propose a list of things that can be proven to be true statements. This may be more productive and insightful.

I already stated OP’s: ‘I shot Reeva.’

Is there anything else provably true?

 

[crasshopper]

Woww .. very good work..

RBSM

BIB2 Good question.. Maybe our medical experts would answer that..whether she could move her severly injured arm up the seat or was it paralysed ?

If you don't mind my answering,IIRC her arm was shattered, that implies the bone, major vessels and nerves running deep to the muscle.

I wouldn't think she could move anything distal to the level of injury. She would have been able to move the more proximal arm dragging the still attached distal portion until the GSW to the head.

:cow:

 

[sleuth-d-]

Great point, why have the signed bat in there?

The only thing is that I do remember reading before the case:

"The sprinter slept with a pistol, machine gun, cricket bat and baseball bat nearby for fear of burglars at his upmarket home in a secure Pretoria estate, he told Britain's Daily Mail last year."

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2013-02-15/pistorius-adored-star-high-speed-private-life/4520930

Was a machine gun ever found?

swap the machine gun for the air rifle and you have the current weaponry list. the metal baseball bat was a new one for my list today.

how many things was he going to attack this intruder with? ironically, by having so much weaponry around, he would also potentially be arming an intruder with all the spare weapons.

"As previously stated, I have no previous convictions and I have not been released on bail pending any charges. I am not disposed to violence."

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/world-news/oscar-pistorius-full-court-statement-1718677#ixzz306dYEaVI

baseball bat
cricket bat
gun
air rifle

bullet holes in door
possible bullet hole in second door
2 damaged broken doors
dented bath panel
tiles broken off the wall
broken downstairs window
phone on floor out of casing [i thought casing was designed to stay on if you dropped the phone]


BBM

 

[fox1lady]

I put it to you:

Instead of listing the probable lies in OP’s affidavit and plea [or testimony?], I propose a list of things that can be proven to be true statements. This may be more productive and insightful.

I already stated OP’s: ‘I shot Reeva.’

Is there anything else provably true?

I fired four times into a closed door

 

[shane13]

I fired four times into a closed door

Good one.
But in testimony. "I did not aim...I pointed." [Oscar-Speak.]

ETA: We have 2 now.
Is that it?
Anymore [provably true statements]?

See? Much quicker, shorter list.

 

[homegirl]

BBM

OP's story had her arm up on the bowl and her head resting on her right shoulder.

But Mangena's sequence of events has her head on the toilet bowl, her right arm at her right side, causing the large blood pool next to the toilet and her lower body was on top of the magazine rack.

Her arm was completely dysfunctional at this point so I don't see how it would be possible that it would be up on the toilet seat.

I was very impressed with Mangena for the ballistic work he did in reconstructing what happened in the WC, and for his concise and irrefutable testimony. He is one sharp cookie, and he got it right in my opinion. He stated what he was able to discern for certain and what he was unable to say with certainty. He backed up his statements with evidence. I loved watching his face while Botha and Dixon testified. I relied heavily on his testimony for my recreation of the PT version (not posted) I was able to move the figure in a smooth sequence without breaking any rules of nature.

BBM The DT's own witness 9(Botha) said her arm was effectively amputated from above the elbow. Even if she was still able to move her upper arm from the shoulder, It couldn't have been on the toilet seat. According to DT she was sitting on the floor, already shot through her arm. She wasn't still falling. She would not have even been able to get into that corner and she would not have been able to raise her arm up onto the toilet seat from a seated position-all within 2 seconds. Impossible.

Furthermore, the WC is 3' 11 1/4" wide. The toilet appears to be centered. The toilet bowl is about 12" wide. That leaves ,roughly, 1 1/2 feet on either side of the bowl. Reeva was a slim woman. I am petite myself, and I have a wall which is about 13" from the bowl. I cannot position myself on the bowl per Op-legs where he said they were- without falling backwards when I relax all of my muscles, even with my left arm across the bowl. The wall is too far away to support me. Try it. IMO

 

[Gbtaketwo]

Good one.
But in testimony. "I did not aim...I pointed." [Oscar-Speak.]

ETA: We have 2 now.
Is that it?
Anymore [provably true statements]?

See? Much quicker, shorter list.

He broke the door down with a cricket bat ?

 

[shane13]

He broke the door down with a cricket bat ?

Ah...true that.

But just when and how is another matter.

 

[shane13]

I fired four times into a closed door

Speaking of which:
Was there ever a statement I guess from Mangena about how many rounds were left in the clip?

 

[kittychi]

I put it to you:

Instead of listing the probable lies in OP’s affidavit and plea [or testimony?], I propose a list of things that can be proven to be true statements. This may be more productive and insightful.

I already stated OP’s: ‘I shot Reeva.’

Is there anything else provably true?

Does it have to be provable Shane? As many have said, some of the things may have happened the night before and he integrated them into his Valentine Eve cover-up story.

This is what I think really happened the night before so was easy for OP to remember details:

1. Went to bed quietly at 10:00 pm after watching TV and Reeva doing Yoga
2. Tea before bed
3. "Baba can't you sleep"
4. Reeva may have even felt loved

 

[shane13]

Does it have to be provable Shane? As many have said, some of the things may have happened the night before and he integrated them into his Valentine Eve cover-up story.

This is what I think really happened the night before so was easy for OP to remember details:

1. Went to bed quietly at 10:00 pm after watching TV and Reeva doing Yoga
2. Tea before bed
3. "Baba can't you sleep"
4. Reeva may have even felt loved

Yes, that as my point, provably true.

All that you have there, I do not think occurred--or is provable (unless tea was found in her stomach).

Then that would be the be the only one provably true.

 

[patCee]

I put it to you:

Instead of listing the probable lies in OP’s affidavit and plea [or testimony?], I propose a list of things that can be proven to be true statements. This may be more productive and insightful.

I already stated OP’s: ‘I shot Reeva.’

Is there anything else provably true?

In his plea....."I inflicted the fatal gun shot wounds to Reeva"

 

[shane13]

In his plea....."I inflicted the fatal gun shot wounds to Reeva"

Yes indeed, patCee.

So, so far we have
1. he killed/shot her,
2. the 4 bullet holes.
3?. possibly also what was in her stomach if OP had named that in his affidavit. Can someone please check.

 

[TorisMom003]

It was never stated what they had for dinner in the affidavit. OP testified that Reeva had made chicken stir fry with veggies. From every chicken stir fry I have made and/or eaten, white cheese is not one of the items used.