Oscar Pistorius Defense

[TorisMom003]

Does it have to be provable Shane? As many have said, some of the things may have happened the night before and he integrated them into his Valentine Eve cover-up story.

This is what I think really happened the night before so was easy for OP to remember details:

1. Went to bed quietly at 10:00 pm after watching TV and Reeva doing Yoga
2. Tea before bed
3. "Baba can't you sleep"
4. Reeva may have even felt loved

Yes, that as my point, provably true.

All that you have there, I do not think occurred--or is provable (unless tea was found in her stomach).

Then that would be the be the only one provably true.

Kittychi was saying that the early bedtime, tea before bed, conversation, etc happened on the night of the 12th not on the night of the 13th. That OP simply used parts of what had happened the night of the 12th as to what he claims happened on the night of the 13th to bolster his story instead of telling what really happened on the night of the 13th, like the fight.

 

[PPKik]

Does it have to be provable Shane? As many have said, some of the things may have happened the night before and he integrated them into his Valentine Eve cover-up story.

This is what I think really happened the night before so was easy for OP to remember details:

1. Went to bed quietly at 10:00 pm after watching TV and Reeva doing Yoga
2. Tea before bed
3. "Baba can't you sleep"
4. Reeva may have even felt loved

BBM

This is one thing I can't believe happened. If she was awake to say that, all his shouting and screaming to call police, etc, could not be true, and he surely would have whispered to her while retrieving his 9mm.

If OP did not shoot Reeva deliberately, but did think there was an intruder and approached that intruder and shot with recklessness, then he absolutely could not have been talking to Reeva moments before, imo. She would have answered.

Maybe I have misunderstood your post and you mean she said, "Baba can't you sleep?" at a much earlier time in the evening.

If so, and she did feel loved, when do you believe they were fighting for hours (if you do) as most people believe from the ear witness reports?


ETA: I just read a post above mine. Are you saying the night before as in the 12th and not the 13th? Did she spend two nights in a row with him?

 

[shane13]

Kittychi was saying that the early bedtime, tea before bed, conversation, etc happened on the night of the 12th not on the night of the 13th. That OP simply used parts of what had happened the night of the 12th as to what he claims happened on the night of the 13th to bolster his story instead of telling what really happened on the night of the 13th, like the fight.

Thank you.
My Q on what is provably true refers to either bail affidavit or the plea statement.

 

[jay-jay]

This is a good post because it has highlighted to me another thing in OP's cross examination that is contradictory .
If he told Dr Stipp that he had shot and KILLED Reeva why would he think he had the right to critise Dr Stipps expertise and why pretend to stem the bleeding and try and keep airways open .
Is it definitely in testimony "I shot her ,I killed her " ?
This also indicates that he likely believed she was dead the minute he saw her so the reason why he didn't have blood on the base of his socks was because he never really went near her but literally just dragged her out of the toilet probably by her feet. Hope this is not the case as it is such an awful thought and the actions of a very cold person.
I really can't see any other explanation for the lack of blood on the socks ,anyone else ?

It wouldn't surprise me if that were the case .. he seems to have a bit of a 'thing' about not liking blood on him .. remember how quickly he went and washed it off and he said words to the effect he couldn't stand it on him (and the smell of it, or something) .. I also remember him saying something similar when he first stood on the stand and was relating the story about when he went to a man's aid and I forget what he said now, but he went to say he did something or another (some kind of action) because he didn't want to get blood on him, and then quickly changed it .. I thought at the time that was a bit odd because if you are helping someone, most of us wouldn't be that concerned if we got some of their blood on our clothes in fact I doubt we would notice because helping them would be our first/only concern.

 

[shane13]

BBM

This is one thing I can't believe happened. If she was awake to say that, all his shouting and screaming to call police, etc, could not be true, and he surely would have whispered to her while retrieving his 9mm.

If OP did not shoot Reeva deliberately, but did think there was an intruder and approached that intruder and shot with recklessness, then he absolutely could not have been talking to Reeva moments before, imo. She would have answered.

Maybe I have misunderstood your post and you mean she said, "Baba can't you sleep?" at a much earlier time in the evening.

If so, and she did feel loved, when do you believe they were fighting for hours (if you do) as most people believe from the ear witness reports?


ETA: I just read a post above mine. Are you saying the night before as in the 12th and not the 13th? Did she spend two nights in a row with him?

Yes P.
2nd day at OP's.

 

[Giles]

Yes indeed, patCee.

So, so far we have
1. he killed/shot her,
2. the 4 bullet holes.
3?. possibly also what was in her stomach if OP had named that in his affidavit. Can someone please check.

RS died in OP's arms on the stairs.

 

[crasshopper]

He broke the door down with a cricket bat ?

Unless the door was never locked.?

 

[PPKik]

Yes P.
2nd day at OP's.

Thanks, shane13. Reeva's friend G said she always got the same "Good night" text from Reeva, but not the night of the 13th; it was different.
We don't know what she sent that night do we? I am assuming, I hope correctly, that the night before, while Reeva was at OP's house, she did text her normal text to G.

 

[soozieqtips]

BBM

This is one thing I can't believe happened. If she was awake to say that, all his shouting and screaming to call police, etc, could not be true, and he surely would have whispered to her while retrieving his 9mm.

If OP did not shoot Reeva deliberately, but did think there was an intruder and approached that intruder and shot with recklessness, then he absolutely could not have been talking to Reeva moments before, imo. She would have answered.

Maybe I have misunderstood your post and you mean she said, "Baba can't you sleep?" at a much earlier time in the evening.

If so, and she did feel loved, when do you believe they were fighting for hours (if you do) as most people believe from the ear witness reports?


ETA: I just read a post above mine. Are you saying the night before as in the 12th and not the 13th? Did she spend two nights in a row with him?

BBM - he said it in his own testimony. He woke up in 'the early hours' and Reeva was awake. She said "Can't you sleep Baba" - and he said "No I can't" and he then went to bring the fan/s in. In his affidavit he made no mention of Reeva being awake. He said they both went to bed at 10pm and went to sleep.

 

[PPKik]

RS died in OP's arms on the stairs.

I don't know how we would know that. In testimony he did say she wasn't breathing after he broke the door down. I do know he has given several versions of her death, as he experienced it. Could we ever know? (And how could he really know with the massive injuries she had?)

 

[PPKik]

BBM - he said it in his own testimony. He woke up in 'the early hours' and Reeva was awake. She said "Can't you sleep Baba" - and he said "No I can't" and he then went to bring the fan/s in. In his affidavit he made no mention of Reeva being awake. He said they both went to bed at 10pm and went to sleep.

Right! I am agreeing! I don't believe she was awake and speaking to him (unless they were fighting, and I don't know that).

BBM

 

[Giles]

I don't know how we would know that. In testimony he did say she wasn't breathing after he broke the door down. I do know he has given several versions of her death, as he experienced it. Could we ever know? (And how could he really know with the massive injuries she had?)

He stated that she died in his arms on the stairs, or at the bottom of the stairs. It is also here that the arterial blood splatter stopped, indicating this was where and when her heart stopped beating.

 

[crasshopper]

I don't know how we would know that. In testimony he did say she wasn't breathing after he broke the door down. I do know he has given several versions of her death, as he experienced it. Could we ever know? (And how could he really know with the massive injuries she had?)

How about Oscar was the last one to see Reeva alive ;-)

 

[shane13]

RS died in OP's arms on the stairs.

Thank you Giles.

Yes, but this one is complicated in some ways.
We have Dr. Saayman at trial and 2 MDs here and others debating the following. Reeva died (brain death) quickly in the loo.

As far as the heart possibly still beating--in accord with your post now--we do have Dr Perumal at the BBC3 doc saying Reeva died on the stairway. I presume from a lack of blood on the lower stairway.

So we will add your stataement and for this purpose use the older definition of heart death.

Thanks.

 

[soozieqtips]

Right! I am agreeing! I don't believe she was awake and speaking to him (unless they were fighting, and I don't know that).

BBM

Sorry. I interpreted it that you weren't sure if OP had actually said Reeva spoke to him before he bought in the fans, so I was just clarifying.

 

[Giles]

Thank you Giles.

Yes, but this one is complicated in some ways.
We have Dr. Saayman at trial and 2 MDs here and others debating the following. Reeva died (brain death) quickly in the loo.

As far as the heart possibly still beating--in accord with your post now--we do have Dr Perumal at the BBC3 doc saying Reeva died on the stairway. I presume from a lack of blood on the lower stairway.

So we will add your stataement and for this purpose use the older definition of heart death.

Thanks.

This is an interesting line of questioning. I guess, it's fairly obvious to say that all his testimony regarding phone calls, texts and Internet browsing are factual.

 

[shane13]

Thanks, shane13. Reeva's friend G said she always got the same "Good night" text from Reeva, but not the night of the 13th; it was different.
We don't know what she sent that night do we? I am assuming, I hope correctly, that the night before, while Reeva was at OP's house, she did text her normal text to G.

No, I think we have had that text even for a year now. IIRC was innocuous, something like: don't wait up for me I've decided to stay over here.

So at circa 10 PM, maybe all was still OK there? [Unless someone wants to claim OP sent that? Not me.]

 

[shane13]

This is an interesting line of questioning. I guess, it's fairly obvious to say that all his testimony regarding phone calls, texts and Internet browsing are factual.

Quite the contrary--don't you now my work re the 5th phone?

What does heart and brain death have to do with phones etc.?

 

[screecher]

4. OP didn't have a good 'meeting' that morning of the 13th. (Reeva had texted him, for lack of better description, 'soothing' texts.)

 

[james83]

I don't know how we would know that. In testimony he did say she wasn't breathing after he broke the door down. I do know he has given several versions of her death, as he experienced it. Could we ever know? (And how could he really know with the massive injuries she had?)

Blood tells its own story.