Oscar Pistorius - Discussion Thread #63 ~ the appeal~

[GR_Turner]

Good luck. Perhaps since aftermath and GR Turner so often answer for one and other, Mr/Ms Turner will share with us their thoughts on what OP may have been doing in the 15+ minutes between the shots (just after 3 am) and his first phone call, to Stander (3.19 am).

I didn't think anyone has really thought the first bangs were actually at 3 for some time. If they were then the Stipps just listened to it for around 15 minutes before calling security?? They also said what they were doing and it would surely not have taken 15 minutes.

 

[Interested Bystander]

I don't believe everything he says, as you put it. The sum total of the neighbours and phones evidence leads me to think there's a very good chance that some of them mistook OP's cries for screams. Once and for all, no one is suggesting that these witnesses were lying, just that they were mistaken.

Well we don't whether his friends were lying in court or not, now do we. I wouldn't expect them to lie on his behalf but then perhaps he meant something else like Tresco's photo of the speedometer and the state's attempt to convince the court that it was OP driving.

Did you watch the interview?

 

[GR_Turner]

Obviously GR.
She gave significant detail as to what she heard about that voice. She could do that as she had had to listen to it for a very significant amount of time. ( Had she said, “I heard one voice, no idea of gender, no idea of vocal patterns, I put ear plugs in after 5 mins “– I would be with you saying this evidence does not tell us much.)

Have I ever heard a “one –sided argument”? Sure. Does it matter, not really but......

When I lived in the city – I heard plenty of those in the neighbourhood. Sometimes it was a case where you couldn’t hear the second person or in fact the second person was not responding.
Equally I have worked in a place where actors are practising alone, animated dialogue from scripts and that can sound strange initially and you tune in to work out the “puzzle”.
Also I have heard the pitiful monologues of those suffering from severe dementia who are literally arguing with themselves.

It was just her opinion that it was a person having an argument though as she couldn't tell anything about what was being said and it was very far away. Someone on here even suggested it could be OP and Reeva having a fight over the phone.

 

[Colin de France]

It was just her opinion that it was a person having an argument though as she couldn't tell anything about what was being said and it was very far away. Someone on here even suggested it could be OP and Reeva having a fight over the phone.

.....not expecting an awnser..........and the bruising Reeva sustained ....possibly at the same time as the arguement ? ......

 

[GR_Turner]

Did you watch the interview?

No but I have now. So he's saying that OP's unreasonable belief that Tresco has stabbed him in the back is the reason Tresco doesn't want to be friends any more. Silly OP to think such a thing given the speedometer photo evidence Tresco brought to the attention of the state in a plain attempt to make OP look bad during a murder trial.

 

[cottonweaver]

It was just her opinion that it was a person having an argument though as she couldn't tell anything about what was being said and it was very far away. Someone on here even suggested it could be OP and Reeva having a fight over the phone.

of course it's EVDM opinion?! everyone realises that. And?

fight over phone - I think FGermany was throwing that in as an example of lateral thinking / exploring every option- as those genuinely looking for truths may do. Then FG went and asked a friend for their opinion which was a big No, but FG still posted that rejection - integrity I guess. That's how I read it anyway.

 

[Colin de France]

of course it's EVDM opinion?! everyone realises that. And?

fight over phone - I think FGermany was throwing that in as an example of lateral thinking / exploring every option- as those genuinely looking for truths may do. Then FG went and asked a friend for their opinion which was a big No, but FG still posted that rejection - integrity I guess. That's how I read it anyway.

.....and GR Turner won't enter into discussion about the bruises ..............and neither the exact moment of Pistorius's womans screams .....and won't reply to post 147 "what other evdence".................

 

[Interested Bystander]

No but I have now. So he's saying that OP's unreasonable belief that Tresco has stabbed him in the back is the reason Tresco doesn't want to be friends any more. Silly OP to think such a thing given the speedometer photo evidence Tresco brought to the attention of the state in a plain attempt to make OP look bad during a murder trial.

Unbelievable! The verified gun incident in the restaurant you choose to ignore in an another attempt to validate OP by invalidating a friend of his. There are times I am gobsmacked when I read some posts on this forum.

 

[Colin de France]

Unbelievable! The verified gun incident in the restaurant you choose to ignore in an another attempt to validate OP by invalidating a friend of his. There are times I am gobsmacked when I read some posts on this forum.

.....one could say at the very least GR Turner is not being objective in this discussion by ignoring evidence and being selective in awnsering questions.....not in the spirit of discussing but more with a defined agenda..........

 

[ApplesInMyBra]

No. I am saying that in all probability she didn't have time to scream. I have already gone through why witnesses may have jumped to the wrong conclusion...

Aftermath, can you please explain why you say that in all probability she didn't have time to scream? Why didn't she have time to scream?

 

[aftermath]

Aftermath, can you please explain why you say that in all probability she didn't have time to scream? Why didn't she have time to scream?

Sorry - have been out this afternoon. And sorry too if this response is at all long-winded. I will try to be concise..

Okay - I don't see how she would have known to scream for her life before the first bullet came through the door, as the door was closed. If she knew he was about to shoot her, I think it unlikely she would stand right in front of the door.
No 'terrifying screams' were heard before the first set of bangs, which seem most likely to have been the gunshots.
The shots were fired quickly- the initial shock of being shot and the speed with which she was shot leaves little room for her to have screamed after the initial shot until the last one. Witnesses did not describe only a few seconds of screaming - in the time it would take to fire quickly four ttimes, I can't see there would have been enough time for more than one full scream - this isn't what witnesses described.

 

[aftermath]

I didn't think anyone has really thought the first bangs were actually at 3 for some time. If they were then the Stipps just listened to it for around 15 minutes before calling security?? They also said what they were doing and it would surely not have taken 15 minutes.

The defence has the initial shots at closer to 3:12, I think? followed by second bangs at 3:17ish? Phone call to Stander at 3:19 and to Netcare at 3;20?(I definitely need to check those times against what Roux actually said though... Not 100% sure I have those timings totally accurate)

 

[Colin de France]

Sorry - have been out this afternoon. And sorry too if this response is at all long-winded. I will try to be concise..

Okay - I don't see how she would have known to scream for her life before the first bullet came through the door, as the door was closed. If she knew he was about to shoot her, I think it unlikely she would stand right in front of the door.
No 'terrifying screams' were heard before the first set of bangs, which seem most likely to have been the gunshots.
The shots were fired quickly- the initial shock of being shot and the speed with which she was shot leaves little room for her to have screamed after the initial shot until the last one. Witnesses did not describe only a few seconds of screaming - in the time it would take to fire quickly four ttimes, I can't see there would have been enough time for more than one full scream - this isn't what witnesses described.

......going by the witnesses to arguements plus the bruises and him possibly already having got out his gun i would find it perfectly normal for her to of ran in the WC locked the door and screamed .....................before being shot.......even more so if he was situated between her and the bedroom door....

 

[aftermath]

......going by the witnesses to arguements plus the bruises and him possibly already having got out his gun i would find it perfectly normal for her to of ran in the WC locked the door and screamed .....................before being shot ........even more so if he was situated between her and the bedroom door....

BIB 1 One witness to a woman speaking loudly like an argument, a significant time earlier

BIB2 did the pathologist say the bruises on her legs were consistent with a violent attack?

Do you agree with the state then that she was shot at 3:17 when Dr Stipp was making a call? What were the earlier bangs? Why was no third set of bangs heard when the bat was used to bash open the door? why wouldn't pistorius put his legs on to approach the bathroom rather than choose to be unsteady? Why did pistorius cry help x3 before the second set of bangs ?

 

[Colin de France]

BIB 1 One witness to a woman speaking loudly like an argument, a significant time earlier

BIB2 did the pathologist say the bruises on her legs were consistent with a violent attack?

Do you agree with the state then that she was shot at 3:17 when Dr Stipp was making a call? What were the earlier bangs? Why was no third set of bangs heard when the bat was used to bash open the door? why wouldn't pistorius put his legs on to approach the bathroom rather than choose to be unsteady? Why did pistorius cry help x3 before the second set of bangs ?

......the times have been gone through many times....my reply to you was possibly why Reeva screamed before being shot at.......or even during.....

 

[aftermath]

......the times have been gone through many times....my reply to you was possibly why Reeva screamed before being shot at.......or even during.....

The times of the gunshots are key though, aren't they?

 

[Colin de France]

The times of the gunshots are key though, aren't they?

........not more than her screams........which actually nail the case....

 

[aftermath]

........not more than her screams........which actually nail the case....

Depends if any screams heard were before or after the gunshots - so the timing of when he fired is key.

 

[Colin de France]

Depends if any screams heard were before or after the gunshots - so the timing of when he fired is key.

.....no....it's the sequence.....so you're saying again she didn't scream ?...........

 

[lithgow1]

The times of the gunshots are key though, aren't they?

I posted the defence HOA a couple of pages back (post # 183) where they put the shots at just after 3 am. Not 3.12. Just after 3 am, based on Mrs VdW hearing them at 3 and her clock being a couple of minutes slow. So if they have not revised that since then, and you are using the defence timeline as your basis, then that is at least 15 minutes between the shooting and the call to Stander at 3.19. So what was he doing, other than screaming?