Oscar Pistorius - Discussion Thread #63 ~ the appeal~

[aftermath]

Yes that is after but he also claimed to be screaming before and during the shooting. I am not the one claiming this, it was his evidence so you must either accept that you are wrong in claiming he only screamed after the shooting and acknowledge that he screamed before and during as well or you say he was wrong or lying when he gave that evidence.

I haven't said he only screamed after the shooting. I was responding to post 125 that said :

If you believe that the screams were of someone who was terrified, why the hell would a man armed with a gun go towards possibly armed and dangerous intruder/s screaming like some girl out of Friday 13th? Doesn`t that sound somewhat self defeating? Any intruder worth their salt would think `I can take on that girly man`.

I was explaining that the screams where he was mistaken for a woman were after the shooting when he realised what he had done.

 

[lithgow1]

I haven't said he only screamed after the shooting. I was responding to post 125 that said :

If you believe that the screams were of someone who was terrified, why the hell would a man armed with a gun go towards possibly armed and dangerous intruder/s screaming like some girl out of Friday 13th? Doesn`t that sound somewhat self defeating? Any intruder worth their salt would think `I can take on that girly man`.

I was explaining that the screams where he was mistaken for a woman were after the shooting when he realised what he had done.

And the screams before the shooting? The terrified ones?

 

[Deleted member 102539]

I don`t think we need to be cynical to think that. Logical may not be a synonym for cynical but it is the word I would use. Or ungullible!

I`m also sure that the `Get the f#%$ out of my house` was what he screamed at her. It would make sense and it was a powerful moment in the trial. He needed another break to compose himself after that one.

bbm

I met with her lawyers, who described their version of the incident. During the party, Pistorius’s then girlfriend, the model Melissa Rom, confronted Oscar after catching him playing “kissy-face” with another woman. Incensed, he shouted abuse at Rom. Then, under the influence of alcohol, according to the attorneys, he chased Rom and her friend Taylor-Memmory from the house. Once outside, Taylor-Memmory realized that she had left her purse with her car keys in the house. When she tried to go inside to get them, Pistorius slammed the front door so hard that the top of it shattered, and flying pieces injured her leg. (Pistorius denied this account.)

http://www.vanityfair.com/culture/2013/06/oscar-pistorius-murder

I just now don't find the exactly link, but I remember to have read that OP yelled the words "Get the **** out of my house!" also when the arguement with girlfriend MR happened. That seems always to be his language when he is wrong and snaps out of sheer anger.

 

[GR_Turner]

Can crying be a synonym for `blood curdling screams`, `terrible screams` or `terrifying screams`? Not in my dictionary. Cries maybe, but not crying.

BTW, did you read post 132 where Pistorius claimed that he was screaming both before and during the shooting, in contradiction of what you and GR Turner claimed?

It doesn't contradict anything said. Noises before weren't heard by anyone and then everyone was woken by the shots to hear OP's cries of distress.

If you think cries can be a synonym, then surely the verb to describe a series of cries can also be a synonym. The close neighbours were very clear in their descriptions of the crying that they heard - was not the sobbing kind, but more like crying out in distress or fear.

 

[JudgeJudi]

And you are not giving him enough. He wasn't some child playing with a gun. He was an experienced shooter, and he was firing into a very small space.

Absolutely. He was an experienced shooter and by his own account violated the most basic tenets of gun-handling. The court was told that licensing examination records revealed that he knew the country's gun laws well.

Sean Rens, manager of a firearms training academy read out a competency questionnaire that OP had completed before he could be issued with a firearm. He said OP achieved top marks in his competency questionnaire and exam which included questions about the rules on when a home owner is legally allowed to shoot intruders. One of the questions in the test was: "Explain the legal requirements when using a firearm for private use," to which OP correctly answered: "Attack must be against you, it must be unlawful, it must be against persons."

The final question on the importance of target identification prompted OP to correctly reply: "Always know your target and what lies beyond."

OP took it upon himself to break the law by ordering six more firearms including pump-action shotguns, a semi-automatic rifle and a .38 special revolver in addition to the one he already owned. South African law allows non-collectors to possess only four firearms and OP didn’t have a collector’s licence. An invoice produced in court showed he ordered the above weapons before killing Reeva. He cancelled the order after her death.

 

[GR_Turner]

No because crying and screaming are both verbs, cries and screams are both nouns. Terrible, terrifying and blood curdling are being used as adjectives, describing the nouns. So you could have blood curdling screaming/crying/screams /cries. Or terrifying screaming/crying/screams /cries etc. But whilst the verbs and nouns are fairly neutral, (arguably 'scream' is more powerful and emotionally-loaded than 'cry'), the adjectives are very emotive and personal, so less reliable as a detail of fact.

The first link goes to an article about human hearing vs budgerigars so I didn't see its relevance.

I addressed the frequencies of the human voice in the second article in my post above.

 

[aftermath]

And the screams before the shooting? The terrified ones?

Weren't heard by the witnesses.

 

[Colin de France]

The first link goes to an article about human hearing vs budgerigars so I didn't see its relevance.

I addressed the frequencies of the human voice in the second article in my post above.

....i take note that you can't or won't reply to post 147 "what other evdence".................

 

[Colin de France]

Weren't heard by the witnesses.

.......so again you're saying Reevas screams weren't heard..........and no explanation as to why witnesses should of been wrong............

 

[aftermath]

Weren't heard by the witnesses.

.......so again you're saying Reevas screams weren't heard..........and no explanation as to why witnesses should of been wrong............

No. I am saying that in all probability she didn't have time to scream. I have already gone through why witnesses may have jumped to the wrong conclusion...

 

[Colin de France]

No. I am saying that in all probability she didn't have time to scream. I have already gone through why witnesses may have jumped to the wrong conclusion...

........how do you work out that she didn't have time to scream before the first shot ?...............on what do you base that ?...........

 

[Colin de France]

From the Guardian`s live tweets at the time:

"It's a lie," says Nel bluntly about Pistorius' account of him heading towards danger. "Nobody does that," insists Nel. Pistorius describes how he was shouting and screaming, but then went quiet as he approached the bedroom. Then he heard a door close, and became sure that someone was in the house. He peered round the corner into the bathroom and didn't see anybody. He saw the toilet door was closed. It usually is open.

and

"My voice is the only voice screaming that night," says Pistorius. Neighbours in Pistorius's gated testimony testified they heard a woman's "blood curdling" screams, dying away after the final gunshot. Pistorius says it was his screams between the shots.

......."Pistorius says it was his screams between the shots"......! ....far too hard to believe (the expert in guns screaming like a woman !).....there's also something about the "peered round the corner" which also doesn't fit........knowing there was little light....even more strange when put into context with the panic attack just afterwards...... on hearing the door closing that would of been the moment to ask if it was Reeva...it's just too far fetched..

 

[Marfa Lights]

It doesn't contradict anything said. Noises before weren't heard by anyone and then everyone was woken by the shots to hear OP's cries of distress.

If you think cries can be a synonym, then surely the verb to describe a series of cries can also be a synonym. The close neighbours were very clear in their descriptions of the crying that they heard - was not the sobbing kind, but more like crying out in distress or fear.

BIB-- Obviously we are working from two different points of view regarding the timeline.

However, the close neighbors said they heard Oscar crying in distress as if he was in trouble and needed help. This was heard AFTER the final shot sounds (the bat sounds in your timeline.) Hardly the same thing as hearing blood-curdling screams that reached a climax right BEFORE the final shot sounds and faded away immediately after the last shot.

 

[Marfa Lights]

Quote Originally Posted by lithgow1:
And the screams before the shooting? The terrified ones?

Weren't heard by the witnesses.

I give up! :banghead:

 

[lithgow1]

Quote Originally Posted by lithgow1:
And the screams before the shooting? The terrified ones?



I give up! :banghead:

If indeed Oscar`s supporters are right about the timeline, Pistorius' far fetched story etc, then doesn`t that equate to fifteen minutes between the shooting and him calling his friend Stander? If so, what was he doing? Just running up and down screaming and screaming and screaming? His fifteen minutes of shame?

And how do they explain away Mrs van der Merwe`s evidence of an argument. Unless you`ve been in an argument you don`t know what one sounds like?

A witness has told the murder trial of Oscar Pistorius that she heard "loud voices" arguing followed by "shots or explosions" the night Reeva Steenkamp was killed.
Estelle van der Merwe, who lived just under 100 metres from Pistorius' Pretoria house, said she was woken just before 2am on St Valentine's Day by the row, which went on for around an hour before she heard shots fired.

 

[lithgow1]

BIB-- Obviously we are working from two different points of view regarding the timeline.

However, the close neighbors said they heard Oscar crying in distress as if he was in trouble and needed help. This was heard AFTER the final shot sounds (the bat sounds in your timeline.) Hardly the same thing as hearing blood-curdling screams that reached a climax right BEFORE the final shot sounds and faded away immediately after the last shot.

Well that is certainly true. So what does he do? Phones a friend. I am surprised his second call wasn`t to a lawyer, followed by his PR/media person, then his coach, then the IOC.

 

[aftermath]

Quote Originally Posted by lithgow1:
And the screams before the shooting? The terrified ones?



I give up! :banghead:

Haha! I feel the same!
I guess we are interpreting the timeline significantly differently in terms of which shots were the gun.

 

[aftermath]

If indeed Oscar`s supporters are right about the timeline, Pistorius' far fetched story etc, then doesn`t that equate to fifteen minutes between the shooting and him calling his friend Stander? If so, what was he doing? Just running up and down screaming and screaming and screaming? His fifteen minutes of shame?

And how do they explain away Mrs van der Merwe`s evidence of an argument. Unless you`ve been in an argument you don`t know what one sounds like?

A witness has told the murder trial of Oscar Pistorius that she heard "loud voices" arguing followed by "shots or explosions" the night Reeva Steenkamp was killed.
Estelle van der Merwe, who lived just under 100 metres from Pistorius' Pretoria house, said she was woken just before 2am on St Valentine's Day by the row, which went on for around an hour before she heard shots fired.

It was more like five minutes on his version


Mrs Vdm said she heard a woman's voice speaking loudly

 

[Colin de France]

Haha! I feel the same!
I guess we are interpreting the timeline significantly differently in terms of which shots were the gun.

.....so what were the other shots then if they weren't from the gun ..........someone watching TV again (as for the screams, see before) ? Please do enlighten me ..........

 

[lithgow1]

It was more like five minutes on his version

Quick question if I may. On the defence`s timeline, what time were the shots and what time his call to Stander? I thought they claimed the shots to be just after 3?

At 12.30am, he had accessed the internet - this could include Whatsapp messages - and again at 3.18am, after the shooting.

A minute later, he made a phone call to his estate manager Johan Stander, a 24-second call.

He then called an ambulance service, a 66-second call.

He then called at 3.21am to another number, the security of the estate.

Seconds later, he called his own voice mailbox.