PA PA - District Attorney Ray Gricar Mysteriously Disappeared - Bellefonte 15 April 2005 #18

[khoffy]

Ray Gricar mystery: 2012 story examines Gricar’s fiercely private life, ladies’ man reputation

Writer Sara Ganim three years ago used the anniversary of the Centre County prosecutor's disappearance to focus on the women that were a significant part of his life.

www.pennlive.com

 

[J. J. in Phila]

Ray Gricar mystery: 2012 story examines Gricar’s fiercely private life, ladies’ man reputation

Writer Sara Ganim three years ago used the anniversary of the Centre County prosecutor's disappearance to focus on the women that were a significant part of his life.

www.pennlive.com

This story is 13 years old.

 

[khoffy]

This story is 13 years old.

Yes, I know that. But in the timelines of the thread and some of the comments they were talking about the rumors of a tie-in with the Penn State, Sandusky case. And the timeline post you made on I believe Sunday referenced this article, so I figured I could post it since I had it saved. I also posted the article because it pretty well explains why that tie was initially discussed, among some others. I haven't had time to go back and read all 43 pages of this thread, so I don't know if it was posted previously. I live about 10 minutes from where he disappeared and have for all of my life. I have always heard the various theories since it happened. I don't know what happened, I think any of the common theories are possible. My personal belief is the walked away theory. Maybe that is because I would hate to think of the other possibilities though.

 

[J. J. in Phila]

Yes, I know that. But in the timelines of the thread and some of the comments they were talking about the rumors of a tie-in with the Penn State, Sandusky case. And the timeline post you made on I believe Sunday referenced this article, so I figured I could post it since I had it saved. I also posted the article because it pretty well explains why that tie was initially discussed, among some others. I haven't had time to go back and read all 43 pages of this thread, so I don't know if it was posted previously. I live about 10 minutes from where he disappeared and have for all of my life. I have always heard the various theories since it happened. I don't know what happened, I think any of the common theories are possible. My personal belief is the walked away theory. Maybe that is because I would hate to think of the other possibilities though.

That is the article that first publicly stated that LE thought RFG was with Petito. They were old friend, and I have heard of a romantic relationship. She was a smoker and she met the general description of the "Mystery Woman." Petito was on Long Island that weekend.

 

[khoffy]

That is the article that first publicly stated that LE thought RFG was with Petito. They were old friend, and I have heard of a romantic relationship. She was a smoker and she met the general description of the "Mystery Woman." Petito was on Long Island that weekend.

I thought it was they thought it was her, found out it wasn't. But that didn't help in solving who the woman he was seen with was. So, they still haven't found out who it was he was seen with? And did they dig further to find out or just let it go when they found out it wasn't the person they thought?

 

[J. J. in Phila]

I thought it was they thought it was her, found out it wasn't. But that didn't help in solving who the woman he was seen with was. So, they still haven't found out who it was he was seen with? And did they dig further to find out or just let it go when they found out it wasn't the person they thought?

No, they did not.

A number of us knew that everyone initially thought it was Petito, but she was ruled out.

 

[J. J. in Phila]

Let me try to give some voice to what LE was thinking after the call of 4/15/05.

1. They thought that maybe RFG was out with someone, and PEF was getting upset. They called his phone at 12:21 AM and left a message. The BOLA went out when he didn't respond.

2. When he didn't call the next morning, they started thinking about an accident or a breakdown. It would be one in a remote area. If he smashed into a telephone pole in Lewisburg, somebody would hear it and call the police. They were searching by air along 192 and looking for the car.

3. They spotted the car in SoS lot at about 6:30 PM. The Mini was fine. The first witness report was that someone saw RFG with the "Mystery Woman [MW]." There were some cigarette butts beside the car and the scent when they opened the car.

Sometime over the next 12 hours, somebody remembers Petito. She meets that vague description of the MW and was a smoker. She was living in Harrisburg and Lewisburg is about equidistant from Bellefonte and Harrisburg.

The lead detective, DZ, has stated that, at the time, he thought RFG was having a "wild weekend," and would call in to shut everything down. He tried calling Petito, but she was not home; that reinforced the idea that they were together.

4. On 4/16, after the Mini was found the Gricar brother's arrived. On the way, they were told that the car in Lewisburg near Water Street. As soon as the heard Water Street, they turned to each other and said "Suicide." Their father, Roy, killed himself by drowning about 9 years before.

When they told the police, that triggered searches of the Susquehanna by helicopter and along the banks the next day.

By Monday morning, it is clear that RFG is not with Petito (who was a family thing on Long Island).

 

[Black Diamond]

By Monday morning, it is clear that RFG is not with Petito (who was a family thing on Long Island).

I often wonder how well they checked Petito’s alibi. All she had to do was say she works for AG Corbett and then the investigator catches the hint to quit pressing her on her whereabouts.

 

[J. J. in Phila]

I often wonder how well they checked Petito’s alibi. All she had to do was say she works for AG Corbett and then the investigator catches the hint to quit pressing her on her whereabouts.

She talked to Ganim and Buehner thought she was cleared. She was known to the people in the SoS as well and likely would have been recognized.

 

[J. J. in Phila]

I often wonder how well they checked Petito’s alibi. All she had to do was say she works for AG Corbett and then the investigator catches the hint to quit pressing her on her whereabouts.

If you check the article that was posted. Petito indicated that her parents sold antiques and apparently frequented the SoS with them. She would have been recognized by the owners.

 

[J. J. in Phila]

As of 11:36 PM Eastern Time tonight, Ray Frank Gricar will have been missing for 7304 days, just two days shy of 20 years (including five February 29ths).

The last time I posted the odds, it was about two years ago. They were:

Odds 2023-24

Walkaway: 71%
Suicide: 2%
Foul Play: 26%
Something Else: 1%

Today I give the odds as this:


Odds 2025

Walkaway: 73%
Foul Play: 26%
Something Else (including Suicide): 1%

What went down was Suicide and the broader Something Else. These were defined earlier. The two are now combined into one; that is because the chances of either one is so very low.

I just took a look at a map of the Lewisburg Area. Some of the wooded area around the Montandon Wetlands has been developed in the last 20 years. Several mobile home courts now encroach on the wooded areas as do some farmer's fields. The trees have been cut down.

North of the SoS, there were woods. A sizable portion has been cleared for soccer complex. If RFG had been walking in either area, and had some sort of of a health crisis, accident or had chosen what was then a secluded spot to kill himself, his body would have been discovered.

While it would have been unlikely for a murderer to have dumped a body in these areas, there was still a very slight chance. Someone wanting to hide a body could have done so elsewhere, with better effectiveness. The lack of a body does not lower the chances of foul play.

As pointed out, both suicide and walkaway are voluntary acts. Many of the voluntary acts, e.g. the computer searches, and like his change in demeanor could point to both. Some, like his interest in the Mel Wiley case, and the money situation, point only to walkaway.

I realized that, for a quarter of this case, I was writing a blog about it and that my first public questions about it were just under 20 years ago. I have also realized that during that period, in another field, I have published more than 50 scholarly articles on a different subject.

While I have mentioned my interest in the Gricar case in a few presentations, only once has my interests crossed into my other writing field. It was a bio sketch that said, in part, "He has closely followed events in Centre County, where the main campus of Penn State is located, on-line, since 2006." It occurs to me that this might be an understatement.

 

[Angelcat13]

Let me try to give some voice to what LE was thinking after the call of 4/15/05.

1. They thought that maybe RFG was out with someone, and PEF was getting upset. They called his phone at 12:21 AM and left a message. The BOLA went out when he didn't respond.

2. When he didn't call the next morning, they started thinking about an accident or a breakdown. It would be one in a remote area. If he smashed into a telephone pole in Lewisburg, somebody would hear it and call the police. They were searching by air along 192 and looking for the car.

3. They spotted the car in SoS lot at about 6:30 PM. The Mini was fine. The first witness report was that someone saw RFG with the "Mystery Woman [MW]." There were some cigarette butts beside the car and the scent when they opened the car.

Sometime over the next 12 hours, somebody remembers Petito. She meets that vague description of the MW and was a smoker. She was living in Harrisburg and Lewisburg is about equidistant from Bellefonte and Harrisburg.

The lead detective, DZ, has stated that, at the time, he thought RFG was having a "wild weekend," and would call in to shut everything down. He tried calling Petito, but she was not home; that reinforced the idea that they were together.

4. On 4/16, after the Mini was found the Gricar brother's arrived. On the way, they were told that the car in Lewisburg near Water Street. As soon as the heard Water Street, they turned to each other and said "Suicide." Their father, Roy, killed himself by drowning about 9 years before.

When they told the police, that triggered searches of the Susquehanna by helicopter and along the banks the next day.

By Monday morning, it is clear that RFG is not with Petito (who was a family thing on Long Island).

I haven’t followed this case very closely so I apologize if this has already been covered. Was DNA ever checked/obtained from the cigarette butts found next to the car?

 

[J. J. in Phila]

I haven’t followed this case very closely so I apologize if this has already been covered. Was DNA ever checked/obtained from the cigarette butts found next to the car?

Yes, but no match with any database. Note that the butts were outside the car and that there were two brands.

 

[Angelcat13]

Yes, but no match with any database. Note that the butts were outside the car and that there were two brands.

Do you know when the DNA testing was done and if the results have been revisited? Just wondering in case using genetic genealogy may be helpful, although I can understand if the expense of this may not be warranted since there may be no real proof the butts are actually related to the case.

 

[J. J. in Phila]

Do you know when the DNA testing was done and if the results have been revisited? Just wondering in case using genetic genealogy may be helpful, although I can understand if the expense of this may not be warranted since there may be no real proof the butts are actually related to the case.

I think 2007-09. I think they might get a hit from anyone that has to give a sample to LE, at least. I don't know if they looked at 23 and Me type sources.

 

[J. J. in Phila]

The brands were Monarch and Newport.

 

[Betty P]

As of 11:36 PM Eastern Time tonight, Ray Frank Gricar will have been missing for 7304 days, just two days shy of 20 years (including five February 29ths).

The last time I posted the odds, it was about two years ago. They were:

Odds 2023-24

Walkaway: 71%
Suicide: 2%
Foul Play: 26%
Something Else: 1%

Today I give the odds as this:


Odds 2025

Walkaway: 73%
Foul Play: 26%
Something Else (including Suicide): 1%

What went down was Suicide and the broader Something Else. These were defined earlier. The two are now combined into one; that is because the chances of either one is so very low.

I just took a look at a map of the Lewisburg Area. Some of the wooded area around the Montandon Wetlands has been developed in the last 20 years. Several mobile home courts now encroach on the wooded areas as do some farmer's fields. The trees have been cut down.

North of the SoS, there were woods. A sizable portion has been cleared for soccer complex. If RFG had been walking in either area, and had some sort of of a health crisis, accident or had chosen what was then a secluded spot to kill himself, his body would have been discovered.

While it would have been unlikely for a murderer to have dumped a body in these areas, there was still a very slight chance. Someone wanting to hide a body could have done so elsewhere, with better effectiveness. The lack of a body does not lower the chances of foul play.

As pointed out, both suicide and walkaway are voluntary acts. Many of the voluntary acts, e.g. the computer searches, and like his change in demeanor could point to both. Some, like his interest in the Mel Wiley case, and the money situation, point only to walkaway.

I realized that, for a quarter of this case, I was writing a blog about it and that my first public questions about it were just under 20 years ago. I have also realized that during that period, in another field, I have published more than 50 scholarly articles on a different subject.

While I have mentioned my interest in the Gricar case in a few presentations, only once has my interests crossed into my other writing field. It was a bio sketch that said, in part, "He has closely followed events in Centre County, where the main campus of Penn State is located, on-line, since 2006." It occurs to me that this might be an understatement.

I’ve always assumed that, had Gricar committed suicide, his body would have been found in the river or somewhere nearby. His car was left at the SoS, so a suicide probably would have happened within walking distance.

If he was planning suicide, would he have told Patty where he was going?
If he was planning to shack up with another woman, would he have told Patty his destination, then made sure to be seen with the other woman at SoS?

If foul play, his body was likely in some remote location. Since he left his car in Lewisburg, it doesn’t necessarily mean Ray was murdered there and dumped nearby. More likely, he would have met with someone and left in their car, taking his wallet, keys and the laptop. If murdered, his body could have been dumped in a remote location some distance away.

The fact he left his cell phone in the car, but took his keys and wallet seems interesting. Those items were not found in the thorough search for the laptop and hard drive. Why did he take them, but leave the cell phone in the car? People who commit suicide often leave those personal possessions behind.

I’m just ruminating again. Who was he talking on the phone with just before he disappeared?

 

[Black Diamond]

If you check the article that was posted. Petito indicated that her parents sold antiques and apparently frequented the SoS with them. She would have been recognized by the owners.

That's according to Petito. I've never read a statement from anyone else corroborating her claims. For all we know she may never have stepped foot in that building and then met Ray there on the day of his disappearance.

 

[Black Diamond]

The fact he left his cell phone in the car, but took his keys and wallet seems interesting. Those items were not found in the thorough search for the laptop and hard drive. Why did he take them, but leave the cell phone in the car? People who commit suicide often leave those personal possessions behind.

I get hung up on that too. It was his work phone, so maybe he's thinking since it's a day off he doesn't need to have his work phone on, so he shuts it off and leaves it in the car. We have no evidence of him having a personal cell. Ms. Snyder said he could have possibly been talking on a cell when she saw him. If he was talking on a cell, it definitely wasn't his work phone and therefore was an unknown phone since we have no record of him having a personal cell.

Theres nothing fishy about taking a day off work, shutting off the work cell and leaving it in the car, and taking wallet and keys with you to browse some antique stores. Even now, 20 years later, that would be a normal occurrence.

It is fishy to take the work laptop along on a trip on a day off, and even more fishy to take the work laptop out of the car on the day off but not also the work phone. It is also fishy to have a cell phone that nobody knows about (though we do not know for sure if that was the case or not.)

 

[J. J. in Phila]

That's according to Petito. I've never read a statement from anyone else corroborating her claims. For all we know she may never have stepped foot in that building and then met Ray there on the day of his disappearance.

I had also discussed it with Buehner and he was convinced she was on Long Island. That was years before the story was written.