PA - Ellen Greenberg, 27, Philly teacher’s brutal stabbing, ruled suicide but possible homicide, Jan 2011

[snarast]

I read it in the latest ME report (the 32 pages one) both in Dr Wayne Ross's consultative report and in the ME's own review/observations of the autopsy's photos.

ETA: the ME Dr Simon noted the haemorrhage on the anterior neck muscles and small bruises on the skin (page 8) but she opined that these are not likely signs of strangulation (page 30). Dr Ross interpreted those as signs of strangulation.

I’m biased but I think the marks are significant. It’s just too symmetrical.

 

[rescuemom]

Whether it was friend or foe, it was NOT a suicide and should have been investigated immediately

 

[friendlysleuther]

Nancy Grace & Joseph Scott Morgan presented this image of Ellen’s neck during a Crime on.

Image 1 is mine, the second is verified via CourtTvs post as shown here

I can see fingernail marks, thumbprint bruise marks and potentially petechiae or blood. What do you see?

Dr. Wayne K Ross states,

“There was evidence of strangulation. There was a mark over the front of the neck which was consistent with a fingernail mark. There were multiple bruises under the neck and in the strap muscles over the right side of the neck. The patterns were compatible with a manual strangulation.”

I have edited the photos from my quoted post, to better show the contrast and color differences .




I can see two oval fingerprint patterned marks on the right side of her neck, as well as a potential fingernail scratch/ claw mark on the left side of her neck.

 

[-Lolo-]

The fingerprints on her neck surprised me because it now 100% makes me believe this isn't a suicide and something went wrong. My only question is: how could the murderer escape when they are on the sixth floor with only one exit, when allegedly the door was locked from the inside? MAYBE, Sam, lied about the door being locked from the inside to create an alibi and reinforce the theory she killed herself, but thats just my opinion for my previous question IF Sam did it.

 

[Seattle1]

The truth, right here, by Mr. & Mrs. Greenberg:

Ellen Greenberg's Parents Say City of Philadelphia Covering Up Poor Investigation

Ellen Greenberg's parents say Philadelphia officials are still trying to clean up their mess from a botched investigation ... which is why no one will admit their daughter Ellen was murdered.

www.tmz.com

10/22/25

Ellen Greenberg's parents say Philadelphia officials are still trying to clean up the city's mess from a botched investigation ... which is why no one will admit Ellen was murdered.

 

[-Lolo-]

I found this file very interesting and confusing at the same time. I don't really know what type of file this is and I would appreciate it if someone could explain it to me.

https://media.nbcphiladelphia.com/2022/06/Philadelphia-Court-of-Common-Pleas-Ellen-Greenberg-Case.pdf

 

[rescuemom]

I don't see how anyone can't see that this could NOT be a suicide and is a cover up. Something, I just learned is that because of a potential nor'easter coming to the area, allegedly both EG and SG came home from work early afternoon giving the time of incident a 3-4 hr window to happen before SG calling 911 to report what he alleges to have just discovered, EG on the floor in the apartment. Also, that EG had stopped wearing her engagement ring, had asked her parents if she could come home temporarily and had packed a bag to do so.

These circumstances if true just cry out to the fact that EG was going to leave the apartment again at least temporarily. In my past I worked for a county DV shelter and learned first hand that the most dangerous time for a DV victim is if they try to leave.

SG called his uncle before calling 911. EVERYTHING learned about that day initially came from SG. The fact that EG was anxious about her job, that she was depressed, that she was making dinner, etc., is from SG. IMO, she was getting beaten on a regular basis and wanted out!!!!

 

[NetSleuth_41]

This woman was murdered. <Modsnip- no source>I feel like there is a lot more evidence pointing towards murder than suicide. <Modsnip- he's not an identified suspect at this time> Nothing adds up. And she was stabbed 20 TIMES…. I mean, come on. It doesn’t take a Detective to be confident this was a murder.

 

[Lisbeth_S]

This woman was murdered. <Modsnip- no source>I feel like there is a lot more evidence pointing towards murder than suicide. <Modsnip- he's not an identified suspect at this time> Nothing adds up. And she was stabbed 20 TIMES…. I mean, come on. It doesn’t take a Detective to be confident this was a murder.

<original post mod snipped>
I also find the choice of location very odd if it was a suicide...I mean, why do it in the kitchen as opposed maybe in the bedroom laying in bed?

Lastly, both Ellen's and Sam's phone went quiet around the same time (IIRC around 15.30). It may be just a coincidence, but who knows.

MOO

 

[Queen of the Winter Night]

I would really, really love if we could get some type of psychological professional to do some type of AMA on here for us in terms of 1) what type of psychological distress would it take for a person who is clinically depressed/anxious to kill themselves in this manner? 2) is it even possible from the psychological distress standpoint? 3) If someone for whatever type of psychological reasons were to look for a way to kill themselves in such a violent manner, would they tend to go out of their way to attach themselves in hard to reach places? 4) Why would someone in that state choose this specific manner instead of more routine ways such as wrist slits and so forth? 5) And/or if they were looking for attention, again more routine ways such as throwing themselves in front of a train, etc.?

All hypothetically of course.

If the PD want to pin this on all her psychological state, okay. Let's bring in those professionals and see what they think. Let's see if they agree.

 

[NetSleuth_41]

<original post mod snipped>
I also find the choice of location very odd if it was a suicide...I mean, why do it in the kitchen as opposed maybe in the bedroom laying in bed?

Lastly, both Ellen's and Sam's phone went quiet around the same time (IIRC around 15.30). It may be just a coincidence, but who knows.

MOO

I agree with you. I think if we look at every single element and detail, it just doesn't add up to suicide.

 

[BeginnerSleuther]

I would really, really love if we could get some type of psychological professional to do some type of AMA on here for us in terms of 1) what type of psychological distress would it take for a person who is clinically depressed/anxious to kill themselves in this manner? 2) is it even possible from the psychological distress standpoint? 3) If someone for whatever type of psychological reasons were to look for a way to kill themselves in such a violent manner, would they tend to go out of their way to attach themselves in hard to reach places? 4) Why would someone in that state choose this specific manner instead of more routine ways such as wrist slits and so forth? 5) And/or if they were looking for attention, again more routine ways such as throwing themselves in front of a train, etc.?

All hypothetically of course.

If the PD want to pin this on all her psychological state, okay. Let's bring in those professionals and see what they think. Let's see if they agree.

In my experience, I can just about guarantee any mental health professional with any medical or anatomical knowledge who ISN'T trying to get social media follows, would debunk the suicide thought in a heartbeat. This is physically impossible imo.

That said, your questions really can't be answered because some are impossible to know (such as #1) and some require fortune-telling (#4 and #5).

 

[Seattle1]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1982088069206437914

 

[squareandrabbet]

I would really, really love if we could get some type of psychological professional to do some type of AMA on here for us in terms of 1) what type of psychological distress would it take for a person who is clinically depressed/anxious to kill themselves in this manner? 2) is it even possible from the psychological distress standpoint? 3) If someone for whatever type of psychological reasons were to look for a way to kill themselves in such a violent manner, would they tend to go out of their way to attach themselves in hard to reach places? 4) Why would someone in that state choose this specific manner instead of more routine ways such as wrist slits and so forth? 5) And/or if they were looking for attention, again more routine ways such as throwing themselves in front of a train, etc.?

All hypothetically of course.

If the PD want to pin this on all her psychological state, okay. Let's bring in those professionals and see what they think. Let's see if they agree.

I'd love to know if it's possible from the physical and psychological standpoint, because I'd love to know if you can stab yourself 21 times and still be both compos mentis and awake. Would you stay focused on task?... could you stay focused on task?... might shock not incapacitate, carry you away, blunt your resolve, and/or all three?

 

[Queen of the Winter Night]

In my experience, I can just about guarantee any mental health professional with any medical or anatomical knowledge who ISN'T trying to get social media follows, would debunk the suicide thought in a heartbeat. This is physically impossible imo.

That said, your questions really can't be answered because some are impossible to know (such as #1) and some require fortune-telling (#4 and #5).

To answer exactly, no. But it can be compared to standards and other cases.

 

[sunshineray]

How did Ellen wind up with no blood on her left hand (did her right hand really have any too?) and virtually none on the towel she was holding, if she stabbed herself all those times and in her heart? Is that even within the realm of possiblity?

 

[ninvestigates]

The apartment being locked, or latched, from the inside as reported in this case reminds me of the 2010 assassination of a Hamas leader in Dubai in which the same occurred. Source: Assassination of Mahmoud Al-Mabhouh - Wikipedia

Copying from the Wikipedia article: "On 20 January 2010 (the following day), a hotel cleaner attempted to gain entry, but found the door was locked from the inside."

This similarly raised a lot of eyebrows and questions. <Modsnip- Reddit is not an accepted source>

 

[sunshineray]

The apartment being locked, or latched, from the inside as reported in this case reminds me of the 2010 assassination of a Hamas leader in Dubai in which the same occurred. Source: Assassination of Mahmoud Al-Mabhouh - Wikipedia

Copying from the Wikipedia article: "On 20 January 2010 (the following day), a hotel cleaner attempted to gain entry, but found the door was locked from the inside."

This similarly raised a lot of eyebrows and questions. <Modsnip- Reddit is not an accepted source>

Is it not possible to stand outside a door with a hotel lock, position the lock bar straight out, slowly close and hold the door open a sliver, use a pen, ruler, something thin like that to flip the lock bar over into place? Now the door is latched?

I've never attempted to do it but it seems very doable since with the lock engaged anyone trying to get in would create that sliver opening before the latch stops entry.

 

[arielilane]

@Duganforda


The death of Ellen Greenberg deserves another look. This case has become a black eye for our city.

If elected as Philadelphia’s District Attorney, I will assemble a team of veteran homicide prosecutors and detectives and order a top‑to‑bottom review of all the case information available.

Several law enforcement officials I’ve spoken to believe that obvious mistakes were made in the initial investigation.

As DA, I believe it is my duty to review files from the Philadelphia District Attorney’s Office, the Chester County District Attorney’s Office, and the Pennsylvania Office of Attorney General so we have a complete picture of how Ellen’s case was handled.

We will respect the work done up until this point, but scrutinize it with a critical eye to ensure our investigation is as thorough and fair as possible.

My heart goes out to Josh and Sandy Greenberg and the rest of Ellen’s family. The Greenbergs, the city staffers involved with the investigation thus far, and Philadelphians deserve the truth - no politics, just facts.


8:58 PM · Oct 24, 2025

https://twitter.com/x/status/1981888002130321713

 

[arielilane]

Its possible that the door latch was already broken, loose, or prone to malfunction before that day.
SG indicated after returning from the gym, the apt door latched from the inside, which required him to force entry.
I have doubts about the forceful entry that evening.

If it doesnt make sense - it's most likely not true.
My opinion.